Weekly Open Thread with Pony and Foal

48 thoughts on Weekly Open Thread with Pony and Foal

1. Pot stirring time! I wrote a thing on ROYGBIV/Jezebel about my problem with my opinion that RuPaul has a history of transphobic remarks and language, despite my acknowledgement of his supportive behavior towards to the trans community and specifically his amazing treatment of the contestants on Drag Race whom have chosen to out themselves on the show.

   I got a lot of flack for it from a lot of different corners. This is something that is really dividing the LGBT+ community, as I have found people of all gender identities and sexual orientations to fall on opposing sides of this issue.

   So I’m just personally curious (not professionally curious) what everyone thinks about this debate.

   1. Is it possible to hate what he said but still love RuPaul and Drag Race? :/ And naive little me: I’m always shocked by transphobia by gay/lesbian/bi/ people and community.

2. I’ve written about it a lot, and had many arguments online with gay men defending the use of those words and basically telling trans women to “lighten up” — and acting as if Logo’s decision to ban the “S” word from the show is one of the greatest tragedies and blows to free speech in history. I don’t have the energy to rewrite what I’ve said, but if I can find some of what I wrote elsewhere I’ll repeat it here in case anyone is interested.

   TL/DR: “S**-m**e” is not a word with roots in the drag community, and is not RuPaul’s word to reclaim, especially when so many trans women have made it so clear how hurtful it is. It has always, at least back to the 1970’s, been a word used to describe trans women (usually of a certain anatomical configuration not common among gay men, even those who perform in drag!), either in the context of porn and prostitution, or to vilify trans women, as in the title of what is probably the most notoriously transphobic book ever written, Janice Raymond’s “The Transsexual Empire: The Making of the S**-M**e” — the one that said that “all transsexuals rape women’s bodies” by appropriating them, etc.

   Please let’s not get into the whole business with Andrea James/Calpernia Adams vs. Parker Malloy and everybody else (including me), because to me that’s an internal fight within the trans community, and I’m not interested in discussing or arguing about it with cis people. I did sign Zinnia’s open letter. As did Christina Kahrl, I’m happy to say.

3. I have a longer comment in moderation, which begins as follows:

   I’ve written about it a lot, and had many arguments online with gay men defending the use of those words and basically telling trans women to “lighten up” — and acting as if Logo’s decision to ban the “S” word from the show is one of the greatest tragedies and blows to free speech in history. I don’t have the energy to rewrite what I’ve said at length, but if I can find some of what I wrote elsewhere I’ll repeat it here in case anyone is interested.

4. I can take it … I can take it … I am strong … I agh no I CANNOT HANDLE THE CUTE IT IS TOO MUCH AAAGH

   ::collapses in puddle of squee::

   Nothing much to report here. I haven’t started job-hunting yet; that can wait till I get back from my holiday (only a week to go!).

   But I did put up my first blog post in ages. More pics than text, but still.

   http://vignettesacrosstheveil.wordpress.com/

5. I made a huge mistake out of misplaced generosity, and am looking for ideas for damage control. Couple of years back, I sold a laptop to a tenant. Price included case, cooler, six months warranty, and I put the 150 on 15 buck payments and no interest, since these are poor folks. I left Windows on it, registered in my name.
   Yesterday, I was in the tenant’s room to clean. Tenant, a compulsive list maker, had one next to his chair and I could read it upside-down as we conversed.
   It was teen porn.
   So, his Web use is logged in under my full legal name.
   Next time I trade up, I’m stripping the machine and installing Ubuntu, but meantime, I have to live with this highly unpleasant situation.
   Any suggestions, other than “Angie, don’t be such a damned fool next time” would be appreciated.

   1. So, what I’m thinking is that this situation has to be far from unique, or even unusual–think about all the family computers registered under the mother’s name that the teen son uses for porn (admittedly, in that case, teen porn use would be less inappropriate, but still).

      I guess my question is, and this will show my ignorance, what are the negative consequences you are concerned about? And then we figure out how the hypothetical head of family would clear her name, and you do the same, I guess?

   2. From what a certain gay teenager assured me when I found a lot of gay porn images on my computer years ago that had been downloaded from the Internet and looked like they involved gay teens a few years older than he was — and to be honest, it would have bothered me infinitely more if he had been looking at porn involving middle-aged men! — the “models” were all over 18; it’s very common to use 18-21 year-olds who look younger. Illegal porn that really does involve underage teenagers (or children) isn’t so easy to find for the average person. At least I hope not. So maybe what your tenant is looking at isn’t really teen porn after all.

      1. Yes; I was passing for under 18 until I was nearly 30. There are just so many mainstream examples of people portraying teenagers with singularly little success that one might forget it’s not that difficult.

         1. Thank you for your assembled wisdom. Tenant is a longtime acquaintance, near my age, who tried to defend me when I was an abused child. This has hit me hard.
            Good to know that this probably isn’t kid porn. Worst that could happen is some troublemaker riling up this insular little Southern town by claiming it’s my viewing habits. Matt Taibbi is more my kind of porn star, but he only strips the bad guys.
            I plan to look up the serial number of the computer and Windows with some ruse. If I can re-register with the manufacturer, I will. Next step is to show up with a Ubuntu thumb drive and persuade him to check it out. The darn thing is Win7 so I can’t just have MS pull it without a good excuse and a plausible replacement to kerp trouble down at work.
            I will notify my frugality forum tomorrow to keep them from problems if they resell.
            The Easter Bunny actually showed up here around dinnertime and helped itself to a dinner of garden romaine. Hauled ass for the churchyard when I arrived to pick my own. Who told the critter about medieval sanctuary laws is anyone’s guess.
            Again, thank you all for your help.

6. It seems I’ve become bitter and cynical over the past few months. I often snap at people, and I find myself feeling more and more lonely because there are so many people I have begun to hate. On the one hand, my bitterness and my cynicism validate a great deal of my views of the world; I already think the world is an awful place with almost no redeeming qualities whatsoever, so it’s only consistent for me to take those thoughts further and start being cynical and bitter all the time. On the other hand, they’re both making me feel even more miserable in the process. All I can do at this point is to try to “wait things out” and hope that I won’t be hurt too much.

   1. I feel you, Ally. I have nothing to add, but I completely feel you.

   2. It seems I’ve become bitter and cynical over the past few months. I often snap at people, and I find myself feeling more and more lonely because there are so many people I have begun to hate. On the one hand, my bitterness and my cynicism validate a great deal of my views of the world; I already think the world is an awful place with almost no redeeming qualities whatsoever, so it’s only consistent for me to take those thoughts further and start being cynical and bitter all the time. On the other hand, they’re both making me feel even more miserable in the process. All I can do at this point is to try to “wait things out” and hope that I won’t be hurt too much.

      Ally, I haven’t been visiting Feministe much recently due to a decision I made to stop getting involved in (political) arguments in every aspect of my life. However, I still keep popping in on the open threads because I find myself intensely caring about a lot of people who I’ve never met because their writing/stories have moved me. You are one of those people. As an unrepentant optimist, I worry that my ‘things can only get better,’ attitude appears dismissive of your genuine reasons for pessimism, but be assured it’s not that, I just see so much potential for greatness in someone who expresses herself as well as you do. I don’t know how often you’re praised for your self-expression but you certainly should be and you should be proud of yourself.

      1. Thanks. And no need to worry about the optimism thing; in fact, I try to be an optimist myself. It’s just that I’ve reached the point at which I’ve lost almost all of my hope for the future. I don’t even have the mental fortitude to witness an argument between two people; as soon as I can detect anger or resentment among the people arguing, regardless of whether those feelings are justified on either side, I just run away. The anxiety I get from witnessing such a thing consumes me entirely.

         There are so many quarrelsome relationships and hostility among people I know that I feel like life is hopeless. And on top of that, I somehow feel responsible for starting every single conflict, even if it has nothing to do with me. I feel like I’m letting everyone down due to being selfish, lazy, and ungrateful.

         1. I feel like I’m letting everyone down due to being selfish, lazy, and ungrateful.

            Is it opposite day again? Where you say the opposite of the truth? I mean, I know I only know you through the internet, but none of those adjectives seem to apply.

            Sometimes when I find myself beating myself up pretty bad, I try to imagine if one of my friends were coming to me to talk about how they were the one doing what I was doing. I usually would tell them that everyone makes mistakes or feels how they feel, and that they shouldn’t beat themselves up. I’d tell them that I didn’t think that it made them a bad person.

            And then I remember that there’s no reason why I should be so generous and kind to my friends, and not extend myself the same. It might seem hokey, but it works for me.

         2. I see what you mean, and it makes sense. Unfortunately, I rationalize my self-loathing to no end. Specifically, if I were you in this scenario:

            Sometimes when I find myself beating myself up pretty bad, I try to imagine if one of my friends were coming to me to talk about how they were the one doing what I was doing. I usually would tell them that everyone makes mistakes or feels how they feel, and that they shouldn’t beat themselves up. I’d tell them that I didn’t think that it made them a bad person.

            I would say the same thing, and then tell myself quietly that my mistakes determine who I am. In other words, I’d apply the teaching to everyone except me.

            I just can’t see myself as anything but inferior to everyone else, so I experience no cognitive dissonance when I treat myself like garbage but treat others nicely. I have no idea how this is ever going to change. =/

7. The Supreme Court upheld Michigan’s right to vote off affirmative action. I think it’s fascinating that the decision was split on gender lines (with Elena Kagan recusing herself).

8. Going on vacation soon! Does anyone have any book recommendations? I have my fill of banking industry-related books, but am open to anything else. What’s the best book you’ve ever read, and what do you want to read?

   Thanks for any advice!

   1. The Dispossessed. It’s my favorite sci-fi novel of all time, and despite being called a “utopian” novel (the protagonist’s home world is an anarcho-communist society) it provokes interesting questions about social organization and political struggle in a way that discourages the reader from believing that there exists a “perfect” model of society. I’m sorry if that’s vague, but I don’t want to spoil anything for you in case you decide to read it.

      1. This is great – I was totally looking for more fiction! I’ll let you know what I think when I get through it!

         1. Another thing about The Dispossessed that you might find interesting is that one of its themes is language as a tool of oppression. The anarchist society has a language that is devoid of sexism, family member terms, and so on. I found that to be one of the most fascinating parts of the book.

            BTW, here’s a PDF for it.

         2. I’m currently obsessed with oppression through language – you’re absolutely right. Thank you so much!

      2. I love “The Dispossessed”. It’s one of those sort of quiet LeGuin novels, and I love it.
         I am personally very fond of Melissa Scott’s “Roads of Heaven” trilogy – starts with “Five-Twelfths of Heaven”, then “Silence in Solitude” and finally “Empress of Earth”.

         1. Thank you so much!

   2. I’m in the middle of reading–and really loving–Nnedi Okorafor’s Who Fears Death. Highly recommended. Also, I’ve seen her speak, and she’s awesome.

      1. Yay! Thanks!!

   3. If you like zombies, try Feed by Mira Grant.

      1. I do! One of my coworkers recommended Jane Austen and I told her the last “Austen” book I read was Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, haha. Thanks!

   4. I’ve been reading a lot of porn lately. Not sure if that’s your thing. I also read this book, The Night Circus when I was on vacation once. It’s pretty fluffy, but sometimes that’s exactly perfect for holiday.

   5. I Who Have Never Know Men By Jacqueline Harpman

      A dystopia/post-apocalypse story about a girl who wakes up in a bunker with 39 other women. They are prisoners (for what we don’t know), guarded by men. Until one day, the men leave, they escape, and start to wander the land. I still don’t know if it’s supposed to be Earth or not.

      A bizarre and unsettling story that has stayed with me for years.

      Highly recommended!!

      http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11996.I_Who_Have_Never_Known_Men

      1. ETA: The narrator is a 13 year old girl who has no memory except for the bunker

         There is no continuity, and the world from which I have come is completely foreign to me. I have not heard its music, I have not seen its painting, I have not read its books, except for the handful I found in the refuge and of which I understood little: I know only the stony plain, wandering and the gradual loss of hope. I am the sterile offspring of a race about which I know nothing…

9. The Peggy-Leggy Update – I am walking! Like, not toddling, or shuffling, but legitimately walking. I’m still pretty weak, and can’t walk too far, but it’s getting better every day. The physical therapist says that it’ll probably be months before I’m able to return to dance or running, and probably a full year before I’m completely back to where I was before the injury. I’m trying to not get disheartened.

   And, completely unrelated to the leg, I have a really bad crush that has officially reached the depressing stage. Anybody got any good methods for getting over an infatuation?

10. A few nights ago, my brother did a tarot card reading for me (using the famous Rider-Waite tarot deck) in order to seek guidance for coming out to my step-mom.

    The reading could be summarized as “Don’t do it or else you will suffer from a painful termination of some family relationship. She will win any ensuing arguments no matter what you do, and there is no way of getting through her because you and her have completely different values.”

    Given that I wouldn’t suffer much if she estranged herself from me, I interpret this reading as saying that coming out to her will lead to the severing of my relationship with my little sisters.

    There were some other details as well – the reading said that my desire to come out to my step-mom is partially motivated by vengeance and that I should counter these feelings of vengeance by trying to emphasize my “nurturing” side. I don’t see myself as vengeful, but I certainly don’t like her at all.

    A very interesting but unsettling reading. I’m still thinking about its deeper meanings. I don’t have complete faith in tarot card readings, but I still find them helpful and insightful from time to time.

    1. trans_commie, as someone who is intensely skeptical of para/alternative anything, and also someone who’s dealt with depressive ideation a LOT over the years, I recommend getting some counselling as soon as you can. You appear to be demonstrating severely self-destructive thinking, and the fact that you are clever and insightful and analytical is perversely making it worse, because you are too damn good at building convincing rationalisations for why you deserve to feel this bad about yourself. You are a lovely and loving person who deserves joy and happiness. Don’t let your jerkbrain sabotage you on this.

       1. Not to bypass tigtog’s excellent advice, just a bit of an addendum. I do get the feeling that there was probably more of a message from your brother than a message from the Tarot (or whatever you call the external forces behind that sort of thing.) It is just my opinion, but it feels like he is manipulating you not to come out to your step-mother. I agree that it’s interesting and unsettling but perhaps not in the way that you think.

          1. Plausible, but I know my brother well enough to be certain that he wouldn’t dare to use these readings to manipulate me. In fact, he gave me this reading when he was in an especially nice mood. I’ll add that he said he only thinks I shouldn’t come out soon – implying that maybe I should delay it for a while.

       2. Well, I am seeing a therapist. (I may have mentioned this a while ago but I don’t talk about it much.) I’m trying to work towards countering my self-hatred with their help and guidance.

          Fortunately, I can safely say that tarot card readings aren’t really hurting me. My openness to such readings is a result of a nascent interest in spirituality, and it feels liberating. I don’t take those readings completely seriously – I’m still very skeptical of them and I often find myself disagreeing – but they have helped me in the past for making certain, less significant decisions. If I make a decision regarding coming out to my step-mom, it will not be determined solely by the reading I got. (And with the way I am these days, I’ll probably just ignore the reading altogether.) I may be very vulnerable and easily manipulated, but I can still make decisions on my own.

          Nevertheless, you’re right that I’m having self-destructive thoughts. I never have and probably never will act on those thoughts, but these days I feel like I’m just moments away from being torn apart completely by them. I will say, though, that I’m not really understanding how any part of my original comment hinted at self-destructive thoughts. If you don’t mind, I would appreciate some clarification.

          1. Re: tarot cards, I think they’re useful exactly in the same way flipping a coin is; as a random number generator that can help reveal your own desires/thoughts/preferences and thereby aid in making decisions. It’s just important to remember that’s all there is to it.

          2. I would suspect that the conclusion wasn’t based only on that one comment of yours.

          3. Donna’s right that I was responding to more than one comment of yours, and just chose the latest comment to respond to. I also mainly meant self-destructive in the self-sabotaging way rather than in the self-harm way, if that makes sense? The self-destructive behaviours are an array of ways our jerkbrain fucks with us, and in my experience self-loathing leads more to self-sabotage than self-harm. I know all too well that cycle of negative self-talk which undermines one’s drive to get even everyday things done and particularly hold one back from having the feeling that one deserves to start to look in the direction of investigating ways to achieve more emotionally satisfying long-term goals. It’s like an extreme form of Impostor Syndrome which follows one around in every aspect of one’s life rather than just one’s career, and one’s jerkbrain gets really really good at this undermining of oneself. I’m glad you’re still seeing a therapist, best wishes for working out some effective strategies against this negative feedback cycle together.

11. I hate everything today. My daughter’s friend was stabbed to death this morning, apparently because she refused to go to the prom with someone WTF!(the details are sketchy and the trying to question shocked, traumatized teenagers who just witnessed their classmate being stabbed is difficult) . Trying to make sense of it for my daughter is also difficult. I am glad she had already graduated and was not actually there when this happened.

    As she said this afternoon “This morning she was doing her prom nails and worrying if she would make it to the salon on time after school, and now she’s dead” How can I make it make sense for my kid when it doesn’t make sense to me?

    And I know they are just doing their job but, can the reporters just back off please.

    1. I am so, so sorry.

       1. Thank you. just needed to vent. My daughter feels guilty that she doesn’t feel worse but as she told me, it just doesn’t seem like it is real yet. I think she is just numb at the moment.

    2. That is so horrible. I’m so very sorry.

    3. I am so, so sorry. I read about her murder on RS.

12. Also to be clear, my kid is a little older than her friend who was killed and has graduated. I do not want to appropriate the grief or shock of the children who witnessed this or the teachers who were at school at the time. My kid was on some of the same sports teams, that is all.

    1. I don’t think you should worry about that, honestly. There’s enough grief and shock to go around, and you feeling horror and grief doesn’t take anything away from this girl’s friends and family.

       1. Agreed with EG. You are entitled to your feelings, and you’re not talking over anyone. Grieve away.

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