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  1. Alley Rat
    Alley Rat April 8, 2005 at 4:45 pm |

    It’s so telling that the person who thinks there is some kind of leftist indoctrination going on in universities also has these idiotic, absurd radical right wing beliefs. He wants radical right wing fanaticism to have an “equal” place at universities with reasonable ideas that are supported by evidence. that’s his idea of balance – just flood the universities with lunatic fringers.

    Universities should be more like FOX News.

    i’m not sure if you’re saying he said this or if you’re making a point, but yes, that’s what he wants. he wants universities to be full of people like him, and like Fox, who spread righty propaganda without concern for truth.

    teachers unions are run by socialists

    so we’re back to red baiting, are we? it’s convenient to accuse union leaders of being “socialists” when you are trying to destroy union power.

    my governor (i live in california) is calling teachers, nurses, firefighters (etc) “special interests” because they have unions, and the unions have power. unions do give money to democrats, that’s one part of why the right wants to destroy them and make new laws (like arnie wants) so that they can’t give money to campaigns. but he’s not stopping powerful interests on the other side of the labor issue (giant corporations, etc) from giving him tons of dough.

    okay, going off on a tangent…but it’s all connected. it’s all part of an effort to absolutely destroy the left.

  2. The Liberal Avenger
    The Liberal Avenger April 8, 2005 at 4:55 pm |

    Sounds like the Campus Republicans should ask for their money back.

  3. Eldean
    Eldean April 8, 2005 at 7:28 pm |

    I would add to your response to Horowitz about Marxism. The capitalist class does not create wealth, they appropriate the wealth created by working class, through the capitalist monopoly ownership of the major means of production and raw materials. Therefore, the working class is quite good at creating wealth. To prove this, just ask the executives and CEO (and Horowitz can pitch in) of General Motors to “create” 100,000 new automobiles by themselves. Then stick the monstrosity that the come up with right up Horowitz’s point of view.

  4. gaymafioso
    gaymafioso April 9, 2005 at 12:14 pm |

    I’m a first-time visitor here, referred by a link from RawStory.com. I really enjoyed this breakdown of the event. (Considering your colorful descriptions, it seems appropriate to tie together the word “breakdown” with Horowitz.)

    I especially love Ryan’s simple but altogether apt comment here. “Liberals…don’t need blowhards to tell them why they believe what they believe.” This is going to be my new mantra. It answers so many of the things that haven’t made sense to me the past few years: Why has Fox News emerged? Why has right-wing radio perpetuated? How come liberals don’t have the same machine working to spew propaganda and party talk?

    Indeed. Liberals rely on the truth and rationality of their beliefs and convictions. We DON’T need anyone working overtime to tell us what to think.

  5. Joshua Herring
    Joshua Herring April 9, 2005 at 12:41 pm |

    You (Ryan) know from my responses to your comments at Hoosier Review that I was equaly disappointed in Horowitz’ lecture. I actualy think this is a fairly generous post on your part: most of what he offered in the way of arguments and postiions amounted, as far as I could tell, to simple name-calling. The whole lecture was a giant straw man — something to the effect of “Stalin killed a bunch of people in the name of bettering the world, so anyone who’s a leftist will end up inadvertantly killing more people in the end.” How that means we need the police watching our classrooms to enforce “balance” in universities – and this couched as a “free speech” agenda! – is beyond me.

    I did want to set the record straight a bit on Marx, though. This is one of the few things Horowitz had to say that he actually got right. As a former closer reader of Marx himself, though, Horowitz must have known he was being disingenuous in the way he presented it.

    Marx himself said that Socialism wouldn’t be able to create wealth as rapidly as Capitalism. It was crucial to his theory of the progression of history that the world first go through a Capitalist phase before proceding to Socialism because Socialism supposedly wouldn’t be able to industrialize the world quickly or efficiently enough. This is, in fact, why, on the foundation of the Soviet Union, many western european socialists/marxists predicted that it wouldn’t last. The revolution was supposed to have happened first in Germany, or maybe England. Early on in the Soviet Union there was an ideological crisis on exactly this point. The “trotsyite heresy” was just this: Trotsky believed in a doctrine of “perpetual revolution” which was taken, on some interpretations, to mean that maintaining the revolution could propel Russia past the stages in deveopment that it had missed. Maos “Great Leap Forward” is another example. Read any party publications from China from that period, and it will be easy to see that what they were trying to “leap over” was capitalism. Again, the problem was how to square the party’s marxist ideology with Marx’ claim that capitalism (which had never really developed in the way he meant in China or Russia) must necessarily precede socialism.

    Your friend Ed Nelson is taking advantage of imprecise wording – either from Horowitz himself or your paraphrase. What Horowitz meant, in any case, was that the capitalist system creates wealth and that socialists, whose system doesn’t really create wealth so much as maintain an existing level of it, then come along and redistribute that wealth. On that point, Marx wouldn’t have disagreed with him.

    Of course, all this depends on how much stock you want to put in Marx as the mouthpiece of “marxism.” The theory has evolved A LOT in the last 170 years. (Each new version as oppressive as its predecessor…)

  6. Harry
    Harry April 9, 2005 at 12:53 pm |

    Hilarious review of Horowitz, but somewhat lacking in self-awareness. My favorite: you laugh about Horowitz’s suggestion that your buddies at the teachers’ unions are socialists — not worthy of comment other than ridicule — and then quickly pull your other buddy Ed Nelson the Marxist out of your pocket to clarify and support Marxism.

    Great stuff, and perfect for a Canadian.

  7. Joshua Herring
    Joshua Herring April 9, 2005 at 5:28 pm |

    Here’s a response to gaymafioso:

    Nice try- but what, exactly, do you think Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky, Maureen Dowd, moveon.org are? If you’re right, then why do left-wingers feel the need to disrupt Horowitz’ speeches? Surely you don’t consider shouting over a speaker so he can’t be heard confidence in one’s beliefs? People who are truly confident in their facts allow the other side their say and then respond to what they’ve heard.

    The fact is, all walks of the political specturm have their insecure hangers-on, their “groupies.” If you think the left is immune to this, then man, you just ain’t been watchin’.

  8. Alley Rat
    Alley Rat April 9, 2005 at 6:19 pm |

    Harry says:Hilarious review of Horowitz, but somewhat lacking in self-awareness. My favorite: you laugh about Horowitz’s suggestion that your buddies at the teachers’ unions are socialists — not worthy of comment other than ridicule — and then quickly pull your other buddy Ed Nelson the Marxist out of your pocket to clarify and support Marxism.

    I don’t understand. How is questioning the veracity of a claim about teacher’s unions being run by socialists contradicted by the Ed Nelson stuff? And it seemed to me like Ryan was actually asking people to “chime in” on the issue of teacher’s unions and socialists, rather than dismissing it.

  9. Old and In the Way
    Old and In the Way April 9, 2005 at 8:57 pm |

    Another reader pulled in via rawstory….nice site and recap on the Horowitz “lecture” at IU. Funny how this wacky guy wants the government to regulate the marketplace of ideas. If conservative ideas are so good, why wouldn’t people naturally choose to accept those over liberal concepts? And another thing…….why isn’t there a conservative arts degree to match a liberal arts degree? Perhaps because the value point is learning more, not less?

    Anyway, Horowitz, Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. are fighting a losing battle. Their GOPayola Party has held complete control of our government and media for 5 years. Under any measure, are we (the US and the world) better off? Of course not. They have no ideas; just taxcuts for their class and social policies designed to divide and distract. It’s a loser’s game that will be repudiated soon (why do I feel like the 1st Mate on the Titantic that gets no satisfaction out of knowing he told the Captain he ought to slow down and steer clear of the icebegs on the starboard side?).

    Anyway, if you’re looking for some more great commentary on Horowitz, check out: http://www.billmon.org He’s got this joker’s number.

  10. John Morales
    John Morales April 10, 2005 at 1:55 pm |

    Why is anyone paying Attn. to this man outside of his non-thinking supporters? Why are people paying to see him? His ideas are rediculous, and he has a limited following. He’s a shrill voice pushing harsh, judgment that few Americans like.

    He is hardly representative of the enemy that does threaten moderats/liberals and progressives.

    By focusing on him we focus on an easy target, that makes us feel oh so superior.

    We’ll start winning when we stop wasting time paying attention to this guy and his ilk and start doing the hard work to counter the powers that can do us great harm.

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