What They See When They See Us

Gah.

Some of the arguments are fair(ish) at their most base aspects, but others are bizarre. At least they like my designs.

22 comments for “What They See When They See Us

  1. May 31, 2005 at 3:00 pm

    Wow. This reminds me of a student I had once, who claimed that Sylvia Plath shouldn’t be considered a feminist because she “really loved her children.” But it was great that he said that, weirdly, because when he put that idea on the table we were able to have a much more clear conversation; I hadn’t previously understood that he had such a loaded idea of what the term “feminist” meant, and every time I’d said feminism (meaning, at the time, something like the “radical idea that women are people” bumpersticker) he thought I meant something very different.

  2. Dianne
    May 31, 2005 at 3:30 pm

    I particularly liked the bit about worshipping contraception. What do they think, that every feminist has a little altar for her diaphragm (or condoms, pills, etc) with candles, flowers, perhaps some incense for the non-allergic…

  3. May 31, 2005 at 3:33 pm

    Perhaps that we pray for their effectiveness — or not, considering how much we love abortion.

  4. May 31, 2005 at 4:43 pm

    “Look at you!” my second-period gym teacher would shout, his sneakers squealing against the basketball court. “You’re a group of ladies, a pack of tap-dancing queers.”
    The other boys shrugged their shoulders or smiled down at their shoes. They reacted as if they had been called Buddhists or vampires; sure, it was an insult, but no one would ever mistake them for the real thing.

    -David Sedaris, Naked

    I thought of this passage when I read his description of what he thinks feminists are like.

    Lauren sometimes leaves her home at night – she must be a vampire!

    Lauren sometimes eats vegetarian meals – she must be a Buddhist!

    Lauren is pro-contraception – she must hate babies!

    See? It’s stupid.

  5. sara
    May 31, 2005 at 4:54 pm

    I particularly liked the bit about worshipping contraception. What do they think, that every feminist has a little altar for her diaphragm (or condoms, pills, etc) with candles, flowers, perhaps some incense for the non-allergic…

    Yeah, I have a gigantic picture of the Trojan Man on my ceiling that I pray to for wisdom every night.

    I just don’t understand those people. Religion should not be about keeping people OUT, it should be about welcoming people IN. Isn’t that what that pesky little “unconditional love” part is all about?

    End of rant.

  6. May 31, 2005 at 5:03 pm

    My favorite part is in the comments section. We feminists love masturbation because it’s even more perverted than sex with a condom.

  7. May 31, 2005 at 5:29 pm

    Well I love it that the initial post quotes something that was in your comments section which WASN’T part of anyone’s definition of feminism except perhaps the troll-y boy who is “exposing” you, but then the other commenting folks seem to assume that that definition of feminism is the one that we all were agreeing with. Pah!

  8. May 31, 2005 at 6:28 pm

    Contradictions aside (and there are too many), I agree w/Alley Rat about the masturbation is more perverted than sex with a condom. I’d be afraid to find what sort of freakish anti-masturbation apparatus that guy has attached to his wee willy.

  9. michelle
    May 31, 2005 at 7:10 pm

    This seems to be one big cultural disconnect. Most of the gripes they have with the values represented on this board are cultural – progressive Western values. Not feminist in the first place. Can’t help willful ignorance I suppose. They fell for that made-up list of garbage that was in the first post, so they can’t be too bright. Sarcasm also seems to go straight over their heads.

  10. janet
    May 31, 2005 at 7:17 pm

    I almost didn’t click the link because I didn’t want to raise my blood pressure, but then I decided I was being cowardly, so I took a peek.

    The thing that upset me most about the post and the comments was not the specific accusation, but the apparent underlying attitude (for many) that feminists are demons or monsters, not human beings — just pure evil. It’s chilling. Even if a lot of the rhetoric is bluster, not the kind of hate that could lead to pogroms or concentration camps, it’s still a symptom of the way the discussion has become merely an exchange of insults and increasingly bizarre and unfounded claims about other people. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people across the political spectrum who are doing this — making monsters of their opponents.

    I wonder how they’d react if I pointed out that my mother is a feminist (true), and it makes me mad when people say mean things about my mother (also true).

  11. May 31, 2005 at 7:25 pm

    Actually, the list just says “believe in abortion,” not even “love” it. Any right-thinking American knows that abortion is just make-believe.

    But the sad thing is, the rhetoric works. It makes a lot of ordinary middle-class women reluctant to identify themselves as feminist.

  12. Gayle
    May 31, 2005 at 8:56 pm

    janet

    “The thing that upset me most about the post and the comments was not the specific accusation, but the apparent underlying attitude (for many) that feminists are demons or monsters, not human beings — just pure evil. It’s chilling.”

    Yep, and it’s important to understand that these people are vying for real political power right now. These are not the crazy rants of a tiny minority, but of people who intend on dominating politics from now on. I highly, strongly recommend this link to anyone who wants to understand these people.

    http://www.harpers.org/FeelingTheHate.html

    Pure evil. That’s right.

  13. batgirl
    May 31, 2005 at 9:26 pm

    I was actually kind of surprised that there weren’t any actual feminists. I guess I’ve just been visiting feminist blogs for so long that I assumed pro-life feminists would visit pro-life boards. I mean, pro-life feminists visit most blogs I watch anyway, and some of them post pretty decent comments. I guess I was just wrong to assume that a pro-life message board would be anything but nutjobs.

  14. May 31, 2005 at 10:32 pm

    Can someone please explain to me why a feminist would need all the contraception if all sex is rape? I’m kind of lost on that point?

  15. Lisa
    June 1, 2005 at 1:28 am

    OK, after the comment about masturbation I was ready to let loose. Should no one–male or female–get any sexual pleasure? But my favorite is:
    5. Believe that the Family oppresses women.
    -They fail to realize that when the sexes were created, SOMEONE had to end up making babies. C’mon! If it weren’t for baby-making you wouldn’t be around!

    So are they c0ndoning homosexuality?

    On an unrelated topic, my local weekly paper had an article on how knitting was feminist. Once I recovered from serious eyeball strain, I realized that the local stitch and bitch group was furious because those feminists hate moms.

    Yes, I need my own blog. Sorry for the off-topic rant.

  16. Lisa
    June 1, 2005 at 1:38 am

    OK, am I hopelessly naive in a good way or a poor reader? I prefer being naive…

  17. June 1, 2005 at 8:14 am

    Who wouldn’t like your designs, dear? :P

  18. janet
    June 1, 2005 at 11:20 am

    Just to clarify, I didn’t mean to call anyone “pure evil,” but rather to note that the posters on our shadow blog seem to view us as “pure evil.”

  19. Jimmy Ho
    June 1, 2005 at 12:27 pm

    This seems to be one big cultural disconnect. Most of the gripes they have with the values represented on this board are cultural – progressive Western values.

    Michelle, I did not read you as saying that only Western values are progressive, but I’d like to underline that, as far as I can tell (I didn’t want to stay too long on that site), the posters there are Catholic Filipinos.
    This is about the Westernest religion I know; their discourse is totally coherent with the ideology represented by the late John Paul II and the newly elected pope Benedictus XVI. In this respect, they are closer to the so-called Judeo-Christian world than they are to “Eastern” values.

  20. June 1, 2005 at 12:39 pm

    i think that the title of your post should have been “what they make up out of whole cloth when they see us.” it is funny as satire, but just stupid as commentary. well, actually it is malicious and i say intentionally so.

    i like the trojan man on the ceiling. my own alter has a picture of the doctor who tied my tubes, er, vas deferens.

  21. justin
    June 1, 2005 at 10:27 pm

    It is a particularly nice layout. I’m half writing this just to see it go from text box to actual post. That and I like the layout. I’m pretty sure everyone’s made the point of that thread being absurd.

    Trojan Maaaaannn!”

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