Comments on: Women Speak on Rape

By: Deanna

Deanna — Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:39:39 +0000

When I was an undergrad at the University at Albany, there was a program called "A Few Good Men" that was a one-night session, men only, dealing the sex, violence and rape. Women were never allowed to sit in on it, so I never knew what went on there, but everyone I know that went to it came out aa changed man. (Er, for the better.) Anyone know of other programs like this?

By: piny

piny — Mon, 20 Jun 2005 00:56:10 +0000

Aside from the fact that, “Well, don’t walk alone at night….” places the onus of preventing her rape on the woman, there’s another big problem: it’s not terribly relevant. It’s like talking about walking around late at night with a lot of cash if the real problem is an epidemic of home invasions.

Women are most likely to be raped by men they know and otherwise trust: dates, friends, acquaintances, family members. They are most likely to be raped in their homes, at parties, in the homes of their friends, and in other otherwise safe spaces. It’s possible to prevent some kinds of stranger rape by taking arguably reasonable safety precautions. But that doesn’t solve the biggest part of the problem.

By: mythago

mythago — Sun, 19 Jun 2005 23:23:39 +0000

We can make sure that if a rape is going to happen it will not be without a fight.

No, we can’t “make sure” of this. If you have a gun in your face, putting up a fight is rarely your best option. If you’ve been drugged and are unconscious, putting up a fight is going to be a little tricky.

Would you walk thru the most crime laden area of your town at night alone flashing large amounts of money?

You know, it’s funny you should say that. When I was in law school, I routinely walked through a very “crime laden” area, carrying money to the bank (from my school’s legal-aid clinic). And nobody took this as a divine right to mug me. Even though I was clearly not a resident, even though there were a lot of poor and economically desperate people.

And if I had been mugged, there would not have been Monday-morning quarterbacking from my classmates, speculating on how visible the bank bag was, whether I took the best route, why I didn’t drive, and so on.

By: Jimmy Ho

Jimmy Ho — Sun, 19 Jun 2005 18:25:27 +0000

Upon rereading my reaction to Lisa's post and Thomas' and Piny's responses to it, I realise that my comment was quite poorly formulated, and, more importantly, needlessly brutal. With my familial history and my real life experiences I should have known better. I could have thought it over, and waited that the debate that took place afterwards developped. In fact, I am troubled by the part of myself that appears in that careless scribbling; I have started writing a more detailed clarification, which I may post later if I make it to the end, but for now, I want to apologise to you, Lisa, and to any other reader I may have hurt.

By: Creek Running North

Creek Running North — Sun, 19 Jun 2005 05:55:07 +0000

Hating women

This week, bloggers started writing about that poor woman who not only disappeared in Aruba but – insult on injury – had the bad fortune to become the Fox News flavor of the week. And one male blogger who is…

By: Jenny K

Jenny K — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:29:55 +0000

Lisa,

The problem with all this talk (by mostly guys) about what women can do to prevent rape is that:

1) It’s discussed as if women who take this advice are preventing rape. They aren’t, they are simply making it less likely that they will be raped.

It’s understood that when you turn on an alarm or lock your front door that you are only discouraging a potential thief from stealing from you, you are not discouraging theft in general. Why does the assumption seem to be the opposite when it comes to rape? That if this poor young woman had not acted in a certain way, not only would she not have been raped, but rape wouldn’t have happened? Whether it’s the intention or not, by focusing on what women, rather than what society, can do to prevent rape, we are saying exactly that.

2) It’s all we seem to talk about.

At one of the colleges I attended, bike theft was rampant, so there was lots of advice on how to protect yourself from theft. It was understood, however, that bike theft was rampant because the police had better things to worry about, not because we were careless or stupid, and that the focus was on our behaviour because the police had more important things to concentrate on, not because this was the most effective way of dealing with the problem. When crime prevention focuses mostly on the behaviour of potential victims, it’s because society has decided that it has more “important shit” to worry about.

There is a time and a place for discussing self-preservation measures that women can take, and when we are still trying to figure out what happened to this poor woman doesn’t seem to me to be one of them.

There is also a time and a place for chaperones. Voting and draft age isn’t one of them. If her parents thought she was too immature to travel with just her peers, they shouldn’t have footed the bill. Because, seriously, any 18 year old who sees leaving the country as permission to act in ways they shouldn’t, will find ways around the chaperone as well.

By: what

what — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 07:56:03 +0000

Rapists should spend life in prison. Period. There’s nothing else that’s going to get their attention. No mercy, no second chance. Rape is a crime against humanity. It is terrorism.

Lock them up forever. Within one generation, rape in the country will cease.

Oh yeah, killing your rapist should be a misdemeanor.

You want to stop rape, get serious about it. Why are politicians soft on rape? Are they pro-rape?

By: Lisa

Lisa — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 05:40:29 +0000

I disagree a woman can lower her chances in some situations, not in all but in some. We cannot change rapist’s behavior, so we are left to deal with what we can do.

We can choose not to be easy targets as a victim. We can choose to not let our children be easy targets. We cannot prevent rape in all situations.

We can make it hard for a rapist. We can make sure that if a rape is going to happen it will not be without a fight. We can make sure that those that are convicted as rapists are really punished rather than being given a basic slap on the wrist. We can make sure our sons are raised with enough love and security that they do not feel they have to try to strike back at women by using rape as a power tool. We can make sure our daughters are secure enough to not only demand respect but to eliminate this whole porn image of No No No really means yes that some of these men believe. We can make sure our sons are raised to know that sex is not something they can demand it is something that is mutually given. A woman causing him to have a hard on by mere flirting or her appearance is not an automatic license to force sex.

We can find a way to help those men that feel their only way of demonstrating power is to rape women that this is not them gaining power, it is a mere issue of causing physical submission that does not give them power, it in essence takes it away as the real power is in earning love and a sexual relationship not taking it by force.

By: Beidran

Beidran — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 03:10:40 +0000

But that’s just it: a woman doesn’t create those situations. If rape occurs in such an endless array of situations, how does anything a woman does protect her against it? It’s the man that creates such a situation. I mean, we all agree that the man is the key element, right? A woman can’t get raped if she’s alone at a house party. Or if she’s alone in the middle of the night on the street. No, what rapes her is the rapist. Of all the rapes we’ll ever talk about, that’s the commen element. The only one present in each situation. And since everyone here has agreed that women don’t rape themselves, I think it’s pretty clear that we need to start talking about the rapist’s behavior. Maybe talk about what guys can do to stomp out the attitude in men that leads to women being seen as objects. Maybe talk about what they can do to help other men see past their entitlement issues. Why are we having the same conversation over and over again, when obviously it does no good? Women have been told to change their behavior forever. It hasn’t done a damn thing. We still get raped.
Do you know what’s even worse than that? Since a woman isn’t protected by her actions anyway, she’s curtailed her freedom, her life, her possibilities, for nothing. She’s traded in control over her life for the illusion of control. Because nothing she does can protect her against rape. NOTHING. It won’t even lower her chances. So can we change the subject and talk about men changing rapists’ and potential rapists’ behavior?

By: Lisa

Lisa — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 01:56:13 +0000

I agree Chris, I try not to go into personal stuff on the internet as a rule, so if I appear over-sensitive that is not my intent. My intial intent was to offer my point of view on the basic premise of Steve’s blog, minus the sex crazed american part….

Hopefully our children will make the world a better place, it’s overdue……