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Jill has been blogging for Feministe since 2005.
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27 Responses

  1. mutant cat
    mutant cat July 4, 2005 at 1:07 pm |

    It comes across to me as bullshit! What woman would write that? Even non-sexist women have reasons to not exactly like being served by young and sexy women, particularly if they are travelling with their husband. Sure it’s nice to have friendly service, but to a woman the age and attractiveness, length of skirt and heel height should be irrelevent. I think she’s just trying to impress the boys by showing how anti-feminist she can be.

  2. Linnaeus
    Linnaeus July 4, 2005 at 2:47 pm |

    It obviously didn’t occur to Ms. Allen that airline deregulation has vastly more to do with today’s airline experience than the age of flight attendants. But since the market is now God, it must be something else. Oh, yeah, those nasty feminists.

    Last time I checked, I flew on airlines to get somewhere, not to fulfill sexual fantasies. I can go any number of other places for that.

  3. Mary
    Mary July 4, 2005 at 4:09 pm |

    It goes beyond feminism… anyone who judges the worth of other humans based upon their looks and cute outfits is just pathetic. Unfortunately, that is the exception instead of the rule in this shallow society.

    Kindness, intelligence, respect, courtesy, manners… none of that matters. It’s all in how you look. This is too true in our everyday life, and too true in the workplace.

  4. Leanne
    Leanne July 4, 2005 at 5:24 pm |

    I have never seen this website before and have been intrigued for the past 20 minutes to see what this thing is all about. It seems like most of her arguments do have to do with judging people based on the way they dress. Also, the way someone looks is definitely a reason why someone is not married:

    Frankly, I don’t see what’s wrong with pointing out that people dress like frumps. And I have no idea–and neither does Klein–whether Reno and Shalala are lesbians. I don’t even care; it’s none of my business. But I do think it’s OK to say that the two of them look like battle-axes (which is probably the main reason neither married) and strike a lot of folks as scary.

    It does not surprise me that Lynne Cheney has voiced her seal of approval at the top of the page.

    If I have never said it, thank you for having this website. Feministe inspires me to revamp my page for something a bit more important than my self-obsessed complaining.

  5. Harrison
    Harrison July 4, 2005 at 9:46 pm |

    Apparently, according to the rocket scientists over at IWF, the reason that flight attendants are “awful” and “ugly” is because of feminism and unions. Those poor airlines, prevented from hiring attractive flight attendants by evil gov’t regulations (imposed by feminists and unions) and union rules, have to compete on price, which has also ruined the quality of air travel in general.

    What?!?

    Do the people over at IWF smoke crack? Or are they just so mind-bogglingly ignorant and blinkered that to them, everything is part of the Evil Liberal Conspiracy?

    I think it’s also interesting how right wingers love to call feminists “man-haters”. But with some of the things the right wingers say about women, they sure sound like women-haters…

  6. Ravenmn
    Ravenmn July 4, 2005 at 10:15 pm |

    Sometime in the mid 1980s I worked with a group of women to sponsor a trip by bell hooks to talk about feminism and her latest books. At the time, her picture was not easily available. One of the women who had agreed to meet her plane asked, “How will I know you?”

    Her response: “I’ll be the only black woman on the plane.” And she was right.

    I don’t have the statistics to back me up, but I’m guessing that the average airplane passenger is upper middle class and white. And those folks have certain expectations that are meaningless to the rest of us.

    But, Jill, I don’t understand the post over at Redneck Feminist. Are people making fun of the writer’s looks?

  7. Jedmunds
    Jedmunds July 4, 2005 at 10:18 pm |

    I don’t get that post at redneck feminist either. I mean I get it. I just thinks it’s more insidious than funny.

  8. Redneck Feminist
    Redneck Feminist July 5, 2005 at 10:22 am |

    Yes, Jill sums it up well.

    Charlotte Allen is counting on feminists being too nice and politically correct to stoop to her level. And she is generally correct. I call it ‘feminist chivalry’.

    But I’m not nice or chivalrous or politically correct. (Well, at least my blog persona isn’t.) I think women who are sexist deserve sexist treatment themselves. Why not? It’s what they say they want.

    So I guess I’d like to serve as a sort of guilty pleasure for y’all. Get this… Charlotte Allen visited my blog and saw the entry. Heheh.

  9. Amanda
    Amanda July 5, 2005 at 11:05 am |

    I think you were justified, Redneck, because you weren’t doing the usual judging women by their looks thing. You weren’t saying Allen shouldn’t work because of her looks but precisely that she shouldn’t deny other women what she isn’t denied for that reason.

  10. flea
    flea July 5, 2005 at 11:25 am |

    RF – Did Ms. Allen send you a pouting e-mail?

  11. Lauren
    Lauren July 5, 2005 at 11:31 am |

    Flea, see here.

  12. Blitzgal
    Blitzgal July 5, 2005 at 11:43 am |

    Holy crap, her response (in the IWF mailbag linked above) is “at least I don’t look like Betty Friedan and Andrea Dworkin?!” Talk about missing the point entirely. Sheesh. And totally unrelated to this…Andrea Dworkin died? I had no idea. I still vividly remember reading her statement that “all heterosexual sex is rape” in college and just being blown away. I didn’t fully agree with her theories, but that lady had some ovaries on her.

  13. Redneck Feminist
    Redneck Feminist July 5, 2005 at 11:57 am |

    I emailed her Saturday and saw (via sitemeter) that she had followed the link I sent. But I was very surprised to see that she acknowledged it in the Inkwell!

    I was not surprised, however, that she lied about me altering the photo. I have assured her that I got the photo from Dallas News and if the photo was altered, it was the fault of that damn liberal media bias.

  14. Amanda
    Amanda July 5, 2005 at 12:57 pm |

    I don’t recall Dworkin ever appointing herself a judge of beauty, so it’s not really a fair comparison.

  15. Jedmunds
    Jedmunds July 5, 2005 at 1:46 pm |

    Like I said, I get it. And you’re welcome to your point of view. But me, I’m too taxed by excercising restraint to really discuss it.

    Sometimes fighting stupid with stupid just makes everyone stupid.

  16. lou
    lou July 5, 2005 at 2:16 pm |

    My mother became a flight attendant at age 55 because she could. She’d been laid off as a purchasing agent at the hospital she worked at, probably for ageist reasons and decided, what the hell? She couldn’t become a flight attendant in the 1950s when she applied because at 5’7″ she was too tall. Pilots fight each other to have her on their flights because of her maternal warmth. They prefer her to the cute, young things. She gets lots of praise from customers. And (unfortunately) she’s a full-blooded Red Stater. I’m tempted to send her Charlotte’s little diatribe. She is getting more and more disenchanted with those wealthy white businessmen who seem to think she’s a servant and treat her as such. Who knows, maybe this will turn her Blue!
    The horror stories she could tell about passengers. It’s not surprising the “help” is surly.

  17. Chris Clarke
    Chris Clarke July 5, 2005 at 2:34 pm |

    Andrea Dworkin died? I had no idea. I still vividly remember reading her statement that “all heterosexual sex is rape” in college and just being blown away.

    She never actually said that.

    I didn’t fully agree with her theories, but that lady had some ovaries on her.

    That’s for sure.

  18. badgerbag
    badgerbag July 5, 2005 at 4:22 pm |

    Oh for crying out loud. Am tempted to write a horrifying parody version asking whatever happened to good old Uncle Tom.

    It’s too perfect and too awful that non-perky unpantyhosed women are the enemy, so much more than things like the war…. gosh, that war and those security checks sure are annoying, but how much more so, not being smiled at by service workers! How dare the low class not be perky and cute, available, smiling, and presenting like baboons in heat…

    Slaves are not allowed bad moods, remember!

  19. Pandagon
    Pandagon July 5, 2005 at 7:24 pm |

    The plot thickens……

    This was way, way too funny not to bring to the attention of Pandagon readers. The blog post Charlotte Allen wrote the other day that I mocked that accused feminists for stealing away her pleasure in gawking at hot stewardesses,…

  20. mythago
    mythago July 5, 2005 at 7:39 pm |

    pretty young things in cute mini-suits and little heels who oozed attention onto everyone

    Did somebody accidentally knock on her closet door?

  21. Ravenmn
    Ravenmn July 5, 2005 at 9:13 pm |

    You know what frightens me most is something that I think Redneck’s post misses entirely. I think Allen is perfectly willing to admit (and does so in her response) that she should be disqualified from being a flight attendant.

    I think she believes that a moral woman would immediately disqualify herself from all sorts of jobs solely because she dit not happen to be both young and glamorous. It’s the same concept that told all those Rosie the Riveters to quit their jobs once the men returned from war. Anyone else get that feeling or am I way off here?

    Badgetbar wrote:

    Oh for crying out loud. Am tempted to write a horrifying parody version asking whatever happened to good old Uncle Tom.

    Now you’re talking! In fact, Allen wrote:

    But mightn’t I be allowed to hanker every now and then for the glamorous days of yore when even coach passengers donned their best suits for traveling and were waited on hand and foot by beautiful, smartly dressed people?

    “Oh Ashley, Ashley, I do so miss my life at Tara,” sighed Charlotte. “Mammy, do get my another Mint Julip before I fade away!”

  22. Julee
    Julee July 5, 2005 at 10:32 pm |

    As a lactivist, Charlotte Allen has been on my s-list for a while. But I was truly taken aback by what she wrote about flight attendents. I suggest she stick to this airline.

  23. Redneck Feminist
    Redneck Feminist July 6, 2005 at 3:00 am |

    Perhaps, Ravenmn, but I still think Ms. Allen had her feelings hurt, even if she does “know her place” as she claims. She went to great lengths to describe herself as attractive (before I exposed her nasty photo, heheh). As soon as that photo went up, she backed down — but still had to validate herself by claiming that her husband thinks she’s beautiful.

    Right. I bet he’d rather stick his dick in a bowl of mashed potatoes.

  24. Jill
    Jill July 6, 2005 at 3:22 am |

    Remember–for every Charlotte Allen there’s an Ann Coulter!

    …that’s her defense?

  25. Amanda
    Amanda July 6, 2005 at 9:27 am |

    Well, I have to thank everyone at least for the stellar time everyone at Pandagon had last night quibbling over who’s hotter than hot.

  26. Lynn Gazis-Sax
    Lynn Gazis-Sax July 6, 2005 at 9:51 am |

    I guess if Ann Coulter proves the rightness of obnoxious conservative views, people like Gloria Steinem and Naomi Wolf prove the rightness of feminism. In fact, let’s not even bother with columns – we can just display photos of pretty women who agree with us, and whoever has the most photos wins.

    And no one’s allowed any more complaints about “Hanoi Jane,” because, you know, looks are everything.

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