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Jill has been blogging for Feministe since 2005.
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24 Responses

  1. Ms. Bella Sultane
    Ms. Bella Sultane October 11, 2005 at 8:34 pm |

    When I was an undergrad, I spent some time in Ecuador. I was so naive – I had no idea at the time how rare the right to abortion is worldwide. I remember having long conversations with one of my pierced, punk rock friends from the area about women’s rights, racism, and a whole bunch of other social issues. He mentioned that young women that he knew personally had had dangerous back alley abortions without telling their friends/families and that some had suffered terrible health consequences as a result.

    With that story in mind, I too wish Ms. Roa the best of luck.

  2. The Debate Link
    The Debate Link October 11, 2005 at 9:00 pm |

    Maybe They’re Just Taking Their Time

    A few days ago, some members of the conservative blogosphere, unfairly in my view, criticized a Feministe post on Saudi Arabia because it dared note the US has problems to. There was much harrumphing by Karol of Alarming News, Jeff Alan, Jeff Goldste…

  3. Cara
    Cara October 11, 2005 at 10:23 pm |

    Absolutely you should!

    I’m doing a project on this for my human rights class right now – thanks so much for the article. We’re arguing that the law is a violation of one of the human rights treaties to which Colombia is a party. I’m not sure how compelling that is, but it’s something.

    There’s a lot of precedent out there in the human rights courts, so I would be surprised if the court doesn’t come out in favor of liberalizing the laws, but I think the issue of actually changing the domestic law is quesitonable. One can only hope.

    You know the US said the same thing when it was considering CEDAW – that women’s rights gave no right to reproductive health at all, basically. The reservation is not rare, but it certainly seems harmful, if not plain backward.

  4. Kyra
    Kyra October 11, 2005 at 11:15 pm |

    No woman’s-life exemption=execution by the state. When no crime is committed.

    If this fails, I would recommend that someone push for an exemption in cases where the pregnancy will kill the mother early in the pregnancy, when the fetus is nowhere near viable.

    Does anyone know if Colombia has laws requiring people to help other people who are in accidents or otherwise endangered? Can someone be arrested and charged with something if they pass by a flaming car wreck and do nothing to help the people inside? For some reason that saying about people in glass houses and stones is floating around in my head just now.

  5. Robert
    Robert October 11, 2005 at 11:19 pm |

    I’m not sure how compelling that is, but it’s something.

    It’s certainly a compelling way to get conservative countries to refrain from signing international treaties.

  6. ol cranky
    ol cranky October 12, 2005 at 8:25 am |

    The church has a frightening amount of control over Latin America, to make matters worse, the Vatican supports the view that there’s no reason to believe that even a 9-year old would be put at risk to go term and deliver a baby (even in the case of rape). After a few highly publicized (outsied the US, that is) cases in which the church has enforced cruel and archaic rules that penalize women and people with disabilities with public dissent, the church is likely to step up efforts to ensure Catholocism and secular law are one and the same so they can control the countries and mute other religions that some catholics are starting to turn to.

  7. Cara
    Cara October 12, 2005 at 9:21 am |

    There’s a similar case in Poland, where a woman was denied an abortion even though she had a medical condition that would blind her if she continued the pregnancy…Poland, too, is heavily Catholic. It’s sad when the Church doesn’t really value life.

  8. That Girl
    That Girl October 12, 2005 at 11:28 am |

    Why do sexual women scare men so badly?

    What CENTURY is this? No, c’mon, really.

    And Robert, this is the “go along to get along” strategy that has worked so well for the Democrats in past elections. Id rather have them not sign.

  9. Robert
    Robert October 12, 2005 at 11:35 am |

    Why do sexual women scare men so badly?

    We’re afraid of the teeth! The horrible slicing teeth!

    Id rather have them not sign.

    And thus, the perfect becomes the enemy of the good.

  10. Chris Clarke
    Chris Clarke October 12, 2005 at 2:45 pm |

    You can slice that particular salami until you’re severed at the wrist.

    I don’t think the perfect is even on the horizon.

  11. Qusan
    Qusan October 12, 2005 at 3:40 pm |

    Here is a link to the original article

    http://www.economist.com/PrinterFriendly.cfm?story_id=4489686

  12. Ed Minchau
    Ed Minchau October 13, 2005 at 7:33 am |

    How interesting. I point out how the 400000 illegal abortions every year in Colombia outnumber all other deaths in that country by a factor of two to one, and the ladies at Feministe see fit not to publish that comment. I guess facts are too uncomfortable. That’s ok, I’ve got my own blog.

  13. Ed Minchau
    Ed Minchau October 14, 2005 at 12:15 pm |

    Yes I did Jill. That’s the comment I referred to in (12) above. I guess Lauren must have erased it.

    Why should I “chill”? Does my comment have the look of anger to it? The comment has an element of snarkiness, yes, but it is not emotionally charged.

    If you want to read the rest of my comment, Jill, I copied it over to my own blog
    http://robot_guy.blogspot.com/2005/10/unseen-genocide.html
    prior to clicking the Submit button here.

  14. piny
    piny October 14, 2005 at 12:26 pm |

    Why should I “chill”? Does my comment have the look of anger to it? The comment has an element of snarkiness, yes, but it is not emotionally charged.

    Not anger so much as paranoia, plus the insulting attitude towards the “ladies” at feministe.

    For some more info on why your comment isn’t too painful to consider so much as totally beside the point, see lefarkins’s posts on the inconsistency of pro-life argumentsf and their misreading of pro-choice viewpoints. Or just review the definition of “circular reasoning.” Also–seems to me like those 400,000 women who would be thrown in jail is a great reason not to criminalize abortion, but that’s just the murderous pro-choicer talking.

  15. Ed Minchau
    Ed Minchau October 14, 2005 at 1:06 pm |

    Piny, do you have a URL for lefarkin’s posts?

    In 1999, 183553 people died in Colombia of all causes, not counting 400000 abortions. Put another way, abortion accounted for 2/3 of all deaths in that country that year.

    How is it that putting 400000 murderers in jail is a reason to legalize murder?

  16. Dan
    Dan October 14, 2005 at 1:20 pm |

    I don’t know who “lefarkin” is but I doubt that he has any persuasive argument that pro-lifers are inconsistent because there is one thing that pro-lifers are not and that is inconsistent. I presume the argument is the old “oh they don’t call for putting mothers in jail so they don’t really think it’s murder” argument. There’s another thread on this site where that one is discussed ad nauseum and I’m not going to rengage that discussion here. (I suppose though that if Columbian women who abort are subject to being thrown in jail, pro-choicers should congratulate the Columbians on their consistency.)

    I’m dubious in the extreme about the 400,000 stat. There are many reasons for suspicion, including the stats provided by Ed. Further, the Economist article (like the publication itself) is overtly biased toward a pro-choice position. Pro-choicers are notorious for lying about statistics (the famous episodes include the admission by the pro-choice camp that it lied concerning partial birth abortion statistics (discussed elsewhere on this site) and the similar admission by Dr. Bernard Nathanson that NARAL, which he co-founded, lied when it claimed that in the years immediately preceding Roe 5,000 women were dying a year from back alley abortions (in fact that actual number was in the low 100s (and at a rate not perceptibly different from the death rate post-Roe)). In light of this, it is suspicious that the Economist’s 400,000 stat is not backed up by any citation to anything — no study, no poll, no nothing. This suggests the possibility that this stat comes from the same place the pro-choice camp’s stats on partial birth abortion and pre-Roe death rates came from: thin air.

    But let’s assume the 400,000 stat is right. The suggestion is made that it means abortion must be o.k. because so many are doing it. This is the sort of thinking that permits a society to slide further into evil. We don’t decriminalize child abuse, wife beating or anything else simply because it is common. I’ve cited this St. Augustine quote before, but I’ll do it again: “Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even if no one is.”

  17. piny
    piny October 14, 2005 at 1:21 pm |

    See here.

    The problem with your argument is that pro-choicers categorically reject the idea that a fetus is a person. They therefore categorically reject the idea that four hundred thousand abortions are equivalent to four hundred thousand murders. So your argument doesn’t hold water. Insisting that we should view abortion as equivalent to murder…because abortion is equivalent to murder is textbook circular reasoning.

  18. piny
    piny October 14, 2005 at 1:26 pm |

    Oops. Here it is.

  19. Dan
    Dan October 14, 2005 at 1:38 pm |

    Piny, I agree, the difference between pro-lifers and pro-choicers is that pro-lifers believe all human life is sacred and worthy of protection — we believe this with all our heart and soul — and pro-choicers don’t. It’s that simple. There is no real dispute about the facts. Everyone knows life begins at conception. Pro-choicers think it’s ok to kill it off thinking it’s too small to count and we pro-lifers think the small and vulnerable and the defenseless are precisely those who need protection the most.

    At the core of the pro-life position is a truth: it is wrong to take innocent human life, no matter how small, no matter how defenseless. This truth will never die. Indeed, it is really the only thing that sustains the pro-life movement. Without it, the pro-life movement would have died off long ago given that it has no majority support from any major institution apart from the Catholic Church: the media, our universities, and the major philanthropic instituions all strongly support “abortion rights” and financial support for “abortion rights” far, far exceeds that which is given to the pro-life movement (by a factor of about 100 to 1). What we have though is the truth that it is wrong to kill innocent human life. This will remain the truth no matter what the law says or what the press says or however many women in Columbia kill their unborn children.

  20. Ed Minchau
    Ed Minchau October 14, 2005 at 4:17 pm |

    Piny, was Scott Peterson charged with one murder, or two?

  21. Ed Minchau
    Ed Minchau October 14, 2005 at 4:29 pm |

    That you categorically reject the idea does not make the idea invalid. If the idea is valid, then it just makes you wrong.

  22. Sergio Méndez
    Sergio Méndez October 15, 2005 at 9:48 am |

    Good post. But knowing this country as I do, and specially in the wave of conservative hysteria that has taken over it (we are at portas to aprove a relection law for our hardcore right wing president, friend – at least- of the opus dei), I doubt the cause of abortion can be seen in an optimistic light. But I agree 100% “Legalización AHORA!”

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