I know we have quite a few attorneys who read this blog, and I now come to you for advice. I’m applying for summer jobs primarily at firms in New York (although I’m also looking at London, Seattle, and San Francisco), trying to focus on firms that have a strong commitment to pro-bono work and a wide practice range so that I get a chance to explore different types of work and find out what actually interests me. I also need to find firms that hire 1Ls, which is somewhat rare. I’m seeking feedback on (a) what recruiters are looking for, and in particular any advice as to what to put in a cover letter that will make me stand out, especially since I’m at a disadvantage only being a first-year student; and (b) if any of you have any experience with firms in any of those cities, and would recommend any of them — or tell me to steer clear. Any unsolicited advice is also welcome. If you have info you’d rather not leave in the comments, you can email me at jill [dot] filipovic [at] gmail [dot] com. Thanks in advance!
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i don’t know if this is what you’re looking for but my best advice is to avoid big firms entirely. that’s what i did and i never regretted it. i work for a small (7 attorney) after law firm that exclusively represents labor unions and their members. i probably get paid 1/3 of what i would be earning at a big firm, but i’m usually out of the office before 6 p.m. and it’s a rare week that i do any work on the weekends.
meanwhile, many of my former classmates are working 80 hour work weeks and hate their life (in fact, within 5 years after law school more than half of my law school friends had quit the practice of law entirely)
there’s a running assumption in law school that scoring a job with a big firm is the way to go. it’s better if you are willing to look at your other options
Hey, I tried emailing that gmail account but it didn’t work. Any thoughts on why not?
Your options will be lkargely determined by your grades, particularly with respect to the large firms in the cities where you might like to work. If you hit all As and A-s, with maybe one B+ at the most, you might consider Houston. yes, it’s hot and something of a red-state bastion, but it is also easy to get around the city, Galvestoin Beach is only an hour away,and the art/theater/opera/other performing arts are of exceptional quality. You can look at the big firms, namely, Fulbright, V&E, Baker Botts, etc., but you might also consider Beirne Maynard & Parsons and other firms in the Galleria. Since you probably have decided Houston is not on your radar screen, then you might consider this city’s firms as you would a “safe” school. Much of the competition would be coming from Univ. of Texas and the commuter school Univ. of Houston, so your NYU credentials would very likely enjoy a high cachet.
biosparite
(Galleria-area lawyer)
There is a complete rundown of the jobs your 1L status qualifies you for here.
My 1L summer I worked 3 days a week for the litigation section of the legal department of a large metropolitan transportation service. Basically, I worked for the city helping the lawyers who defended against lawsuits brought against the transportatoin sector (lots of personal injuries on subways and buses, and some contract cases). I worked 2 days a week for a professor compiling materials on legal ethics in class action lawsuits. Neither position was paid. I worked nights at a deli to keep myself afloat.
Law firm positions as a 1L are extremely hard to come by. You didn’t say what size firm you are interested in. I think large law firms are very tough for people just starting out. I like working in a large law firm but I think it was MUCH easier for me coming into the firm from the public sector rather than trying to learn the ropes of practicing law in a large place where the primary emphasis is the bottom line.
It’s hard to say what to put in a cover letter without knowing more about your interests and experience and the particular firms to which you are applying. As much as you can, tailor your cover letters to show that your interests and experience will be useful to the particular needs of the firm. Unfortunately, I doubt most firms want to hear much about your commitment to pro bono work. These places are profit-genarating enterprises; partners worry a lot that young attorneys do not sufficiently appreciate the business aspect of practicing law.
Ooh — I forgot to say that I don’t work in any of the geographic areas you’re interested in, but if there is anything I can do to help, please feel free to send me an email.
Oh- and I promise to shut up soon — but I thought I should mention that my husband didn’t do anything either his 1L or 2L summer. He did a clinic in law school, got good grades, and seemed to be just as marketable as I when we graduated, even though I had a clinic, the same grades, AND summer work experience. So don’t stress too much!
What’s a 1L?
I also completely avoided firms, although I understand that some people have financial reasons for going there.
In addition to applying for a job with a firm, have you considered working for a federal judge during your first summer? I think that experience with a judge will definitely help your marketability should you decide to shoot for a summer job with a firm as a 2L. It might also give you a leg up should you want to clerk with a judge after you graduate.
In terms of funding, if you decide to intern with a judge this summer, you might be able to get it through your school (work study, grants from student groups, etc).
I’m pretty sure that only 10% of the firms that came to the UT “clerkship fair” back in the day would hire post-1Ls. I was lucky enough to get in on a public interest fellowship with a disability rights place; I think that with the plethora of nonprofits and legal clinics in the NYC area, a semi-paid internship would probably be the best and most rewarding bet.
I don’t know what NYU offers, but my law school does provide summer stipends to students doing public interest work. (Subject to certain qualifications, etc.) Harass career services on this point. I also know a lot of 1Ls who participated in judicial externships, which might be something to look into.
I spent my 1L summer working for a prof at the law school. He was doing research on some stuff I was interested in and it worked out nicely. This summer, I’m going to be working for Army JAG doing administrative law and courts-martial. Good luck!
What’s a 1L?
A high school graduate with a 750 verbal SAT and $20,000 less than they had a year ago.
Or a first-year law student.
I don’t see any reason to work at a big firm as an 1L. Unless you simply want to see the environment and have no intention of ever practicing for a big firm ever again. No firm is going to hire you because you summered for a big firm as an 1L. You’re just as likely to be hired, and perhaps more so, if you do public interest work your first summer (e.g. criminal defense, prosecution, government lawyering, etc) or a clerkship if you can get it. In fact, no one is going to begrudge you if you spend the summer in France, or somewhere else, maybe London(?), studying. I think most law schools offer something like this now. Or maybe you can go to London through another school’s program?
I can see summering at a big firm as an 1L if you just are curious about the environment. Maybe you want to learn how to interact and succeed in this environment, or even maybe you just want to see if joining a big firmis for you. But you strike me as a very astute person who will have no problem fitting in. At least, if you want to fit in.
And that leads me to what it’s like at big firms. Sure, there are differences between firms, like the pro bono work, the culture, the practice areas, and the amount of responsibility you get at different times in your career. But, all big firms have a very important commonality. There really is no mystery there. Your job is to make money for the partners. And all the other associates are competing for the partners’ favor. And you work long hours. It’s easy as a student to blithely gloss over the long hours (“Yeah. I can do it. I’m tough. I can pay my dues.”). But try putting in a couple of consecutive weeks working over 60 hours to see the toll it takes on you. You have to enjoy this to succeed (that’s why the attorneys that make it to partner are still working these hours into their 60s, 70′s, and 80′s [the founding partner at the firm I work for is in his 80's and still shows up every day]).
Sorry for the long tome. Guess I just like giving advice to soon-to-be lawyers. Maybe more later.
As far as cover letters go, color me a pessimist, but I think they are insignificant. Especially for big firms. They just care about the numbers. Law Review? Check. Top 20 law school? Check. Top 20% in your class? Check. Non-legal experience (e.g. Capitol Hill staffer, paralegal, debate society, student government, community service, etc.). Check. Other interests (e.g. chess, history, exercise, blah, blah, blah). Check. Ok, you’re hired. Being bold in cover letters is for the non-traditional types. Getting a job in London may require a unique approach. But to get hired by a U.S. big firm you just need to get the grades and appear to be a law student automatan. You know what it takes.
Don’t bother with big firms. Especially in New York. Summer recruiting there is a huge boondoggle. You’re not going to do any actual work, and they try very hard to give you the idea that practice is all going to events and Yankee games and very expensive lunches.
And then you become a first year.
And then they wonder why their attrition rate is so high.
You’d be much better off going for a judicial externship or an internship directly with a pro bono organization or government. The City Bar Association does a lot with pro bono stuff; you might look at their website: http://www.abcny.org.
Also, beyond what particular departments and practice areas you’d like to consider, you should probably have an idea of whether you want to go for transactional or litigation work. Or taxes, if you’re into that kind of thing.
I don’t know if this is something you’d be interested in or not, but the National Labor Relations Board has offices all over the country (they have regional offices that cover a specified geographic area). They employ lawyers and field examiners, and they offer internships in both. I believe the legal internships are paid and field examiners unpaid. I interned as a field examiner over a summer, and I got to go help monitor union elections, sit in on affidavits, and assist in investigating some claims. The focus is pretty narrow, but I did get to do some actual work as opposed to just making copies or running errands for the big wigs.
I worked in a large firm in Philly for years and when 1Ls asked me about the firm’s committment to pro bono it was so naive it was almost sweet. I asked them what their committment to their vacation was. A firm is happy to be committed to good works with your free time –everything else must be billed. There’s a reason that there are almost no women partners or even senior associates in large firms. It’s not rocket science. Forget your “research” b/c at the end of the day all firms are the same and are based on the same business model of you billing (which you will learn is not the same as “working”) 70 hours per week. So go to the firm that pays absolutely the most money so you can pay off your debt and then figure out what to do with your life.
Jill, if the reason you want law-firm work as a 1L is that you need the money, good luck. I was in that position, and I ended up doing carpentry my 1L summer because I couldn’t find a paying job in law. Nobody wants to pay a 1L, if you draw a paycheck let me know how you did it.
About big firms in general: I avoided them altogether. There is something comforting to the structure for some folks, and the contacts can be valuable (though the same can be said for government work; and that’s even more true for clerking). But if the firm is large and the business model is selling your billable time, the work is long, mentoring is a secondary concern and the rate of attrition is high. They don’t keep the profits per equity partner high by making lots of partners, so they bring in a big class and burn most of them out.
About pro bono and doing the “right thing”: Don’t sin all week and go to church on Sunday. The pro bono situation isn’t as bad as some folks say: I know big-firm lawyers who keep a pro bono case or two. The firms like it because it allows junior lawyers to act more independently without jeopardizing the paying client-base. But even where there’s a lot of it, it’s one or two matters at a time getting pushed on the back burner by the paying work. Find a practice where you believe that you’re by and large making the world a better place every day you show up, and that pays something you can live on. If that’s not here, do it somewhere else. But don’t work for people you think are doing the wrong thing and try to get right with your own values three hours a month.
I’m taking the bar soon, so obviously, I’m not a lawyer, but I wanted to second the comment to maybe think about doing clinic or something where you can focus more on learning and less on how your clothes are ironed, and whose ass to kiss (I do NOT mean to say that you’d do that–I mean to say my few friends who squeaked into chi-chi big firms in Portland, OR ended up feeling a lot of social pressure and firm politics, to the point where it kind of dominated the whol experience. Don’t go to the firm picnic because family is in town? Eat bitter all month. Don’t have the right suit? Feel stupid and self-conscious. And that was Portland).
It seems like the kids who came out swinging as 2Ls the next summer were the kids who got jobs in the county criminal offices. They got more responsibility, and more real world experience. They tended to have their pick of jobs the next year. The person I know who had doing small trials in THREE counties (one in WA and two in OR) under her belt by the end of law school is the one who was the most employable. She got paid shit but she learned a lot.
I just took classes and clinic during my summers, as I had to have a non-legal job (I was a caregiver to a loved one), and I am frankly not that undesirable compared to the folks who went out and dragged in a decent summer salary. They made connections, but those sort help most if you’re planning on working in that environment after school. At clinic, I met EVERYone, because I went to the courthouse. I think that’s ultimately more exploitable and less painful, but that’s my opinion as someone who views big firm work as inevitable soul abuse.
You could also do a study-abroad program. Lots of law schools have them, in pretty interesting places. I had to take a summer class because I started in the summer and the ABA has weird rules about how many weeks you must be in school (IOW, no graduating early), and my first summer semester was short a couple of weeks.
I did not, however, do a study abroad because I had to find paying work.
when 1Ls asked me about the firm’s committment to pro bono it was so naive it was almost sweet.
I have to say I mostly agree with this. At the end of the day the firm is going to be most concerned with your billable hours. They allow associates to take on pro bono matters mostly as a training tool and for public relations reasons (so law students like you will be attracted to them). After all, you will probably appear in court, and get to do the actual talking, for a pro bono matter before you do so in a paying matter.
However, there is a difference between firms. I feel some firms take it seriously and really encourage it. I know one firm that actually requires all associates to work for 6 months as a criminal defense lawyer before their fifth year. I also know another associate who recently was selected to supervise associate pro bono matters and she really loves her job. But I don’t know how that affects her chances of being partner. I don’t think it helps.
But don’t be fooled, or sold, on a firm’s pro bono “committment”. They all have a motive to exaggerate it, and it’s really not the best indicator of what working for a firm is like. The culture is much more important. I’ve worked at 3 big firms in San Francisco and each of those firms are radically different. And guess which firm was the worst as far as the way they treated associates–the one with the “best” pro bono program.
By the way, I think the culture in San Francisco firms is much better than, say, New York. Although I don’t have much experience with New York firms (I do with Washington D.C. firms though). My impression is New York big law is pretty buttoned-down and stuffy. In San Francisco big law has a little softer feel, people are generally liberal (even though you’ll find the few conservative San Franciscans in the firms), and of course the dress code is slightly looser.
If you want to know about any particular San Francisco firms I could certainly give you my impressions.
Jill,
Email Noah Feldman and ask him if he’s looking to hire a summer research assistant. And no, I’m not kidding. :-P
I researched for a prof last year during my 1L summer, in addition to another job. It was pretty interesting stuff, and way more laid back than a firm job (although obviously the pay wasn’t as good).
Good luck with your search.
I’m a 3L at NYU law. I spent my first summer at legal services and my second at a big law firm in D.C. I’d encourage you to do a public interest job this first summer too because the PILC grants are easy and the work you’ll do will give you a different experience than you’ll have if you do a traditional 2L firm summer. It’s also worthwhile for a couple of instrumental reasons: 1) it’ll be something interesting on your resume for clerkships or other interviews, and 2) it’ll give you a leg up in a field of public interest work if firm law isn’t for you. Good luck and feel free to email me if you have other questions.
Here’s a link to organizations offering pro bono opportunities for law students.
Newly minted lawyer here. I wouldn’t even bother with large NYC firms at this time. In fact, it’s likely that no BIGLAW firm in any of the markets you mention is going to hire a 1L. How are you picking them? If you don’t have any connection to the city (previous residence, family, fiance), you’re at a serious disadvantage. This goes triple for London; tons of 2Ls think a summer in London would be fun and strike out. Small NYC firms or boutiques might be more approachable, but . . .
I agree with June and zuzu that a judicial clerkship/externship, research assistantship, or public interest job is a good choice. There are district judges in NYC who have summer positions and I know people who had good experiences with them. Working for a judge or prof also gives you a good opportunity to get plugged in for the 2L recruiting season and to get a good letter of recommendation if you are considering clerking. You will be paid anough next summer as a 2L to make up for your minimal income this summer. Get a PILC grant and do something you care about.
jill – a lot of this has already been said, but as a 2L who has agonized over the job situation, i would echo what other people have said about not bothering with a firm your 1L year. jobs for 1Ls are so scarce that depending on grades and availability, you may not be able to get one. and, even if you want to work at a firm after you graduate, there’s no need to work at one now. i know a bunch of people (well, basically everyone i know) who did either 1) externship 2) research for a prof or 3) public interest ‘job’ (that’s what i did) first summer and are already set up to work at a firm next summer.
unless you’re doing it for the money, there’s really no reason to work at a firm after the first year, especialy since it’s not like that’s where you get the best experience. i had two separate internships where i got to crazy shit like go interview clients in prison and go spy on city council meetings. it was pretty sweet. working at a firm they’ll just have you writing boring memos all day. don’t do it! enjoy your summer! you have the rest of your life to make money (and believe me, you will), so have fun now while it has no impact on your career prospects.
there’s my unsolicited advice.