“We’re All the Same Everywhere”

by piny on 3.23.2006 · 8 comments

in General

(I forget sometimes that no one here knows what I’m reading unless I link to it.)

So, before the hiatus, brownfemipower responded to my post (among several others) over at her blog:

I most certainly appreciate that piny has at least acknowledged the racism that Kevin talked about in his post, but at the same time, I also felt that this “apology” lacked any real commitment to change behind it.

The discussion in comments resulted more words about responsibility and purpose:

I think that what seems to be coming out of this dialogue is that we as feminist bloggers need to better define our reason for our blog…is it to get hits and get a lot of readers, or is it to be a tool of liberation? In other words, if we use our blog as a tool for liberation, wouldn’t we do what we can to create a “new world”–one that we want our liberated world to look like? and wouldn’t our new world at least have a strictly adheard to policy of, we may disagree, but we aren’t going to do it in an agressive, violent, demeaning, insulting, threatening etc etc way? it is possible to have conversations about touchy issues without a total meltdown happening–women of color build alliances all the time with those who hate them (thinking of native women in wisconsin working with white racists)…it is possible, but there has to be strictly enforced understandings of when and how to talk…ya know?

And there was a brief exchange between Jay and me about intersectionality (which, just so we’re clear, is a theory that contradicts the idea that any given experience is the sum of its parts; being a gay white man who uses a wheelchair is not reducible to “gay” plus “wheelchair-using” plus “male” plus “white”).

Briefly, the “I don’t want to offend anyone by my ignorance, so I’ll just keep my head down here in the sand, thanks,” ethos of respect that isn’t has compromised my analysis of (trans)male-presenting privilege as it may apply in conjunction with racism.

This is what I wrote when Jay mentioned the tendency on the part of white ftms to assume that this privilege is uncomplicated, to whitewash:

That’s a big one. I’ve been leery of posting about it because it seems to give white ftms an opportunity to use intersectionality to deny the existence of the privilege that _they_ enjoy as people who move through the world as white men: because “male privilege” is complicated for ftms of color, it does not exist for any ftms. They point to racism both to deny their race-dependent privilege and to obfuscate the way in which racism functions to regulate privilege.

I, of course, have been pointing to this racism to divert from my obligation to write about the issue at all.

Jay responded over on his blog:

What piny describes, I think, is part of understanding how race functions within the lives of white FtMs. I would also add that white FtMs point to racism to underscore the transphobia they experience.

…and he mentions a white-queer tendency I’ve noticed and followed before: the tendency to appropriate the problems we don’t have, particularly those problems connected to racism. Take, for example, the oft-used immigration metaphor. If our audience sees national, geographical, and cultural position as fraught on a hundred different levels, then maybe it’s not so far off. If they’re locked into the hierarchical/aspirational picture of immigration, we wind up trivializing both groups. But whether we praise the terms offered or condemn them, we obliterate those people in the service of us: our legitimate citizenship, our legitimate fury. Me, me, me.

Anyway. More later, hopefully. There’s some stuff on ignoring male privilege itself, because hey: why insult just some people?

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{ 8 comments }

1 Jay Sennett 3.23.2006 at 1:41 pm

I kinda dig this cross-blog commenting…maybe we won’t have to comment on each other’s posts. We will just blog about it ;-).

There’s some stuff on ignoring male privilege itself, because hey: why insult just some people?

This statement made me laugh out loud. For whatever that is worth.

I’ve done much thinking, and no writing, on white masculinity. Richard Dyer’s work has been helpful with some of my thinking. And, if I understand your statement correctly, white FtMs also ignore male privilege.

Have you deduced why this is so? I have a theory that many white FtMs don’t feel particularly empowered or privileged. From that feeling they conclude they are not privileged.

2 piny 3.23.2006 at 2:43 pm

Have you deduced why this is so? I have a theory that many white FtMs don’t feel particularly empowered or privileged. From that feeling they conclude they are not privileged.

Um, I have a whole rant on this, I swear. I think it ties into a lot of impulses, some slightly more noble than others.

I saw a primo example of this on some poor transguy’s blog, and I’m very tempted to link to it, but I don’t know if I feel comfortable doing that.

3 brownfemipower 3.23.2006 at 2:56 pm

i wouldn’t link him piny–i would engage him on his own blog :-)
i also want to see your rant!!! is it linked somewhere or is it still in your head?
:p

4 piny 3.23.2006 at 3:06 pm

i wouldn’t link him piny–i would engage him on his own blog :-)

Well, but then it’d be him, me, and the virtual crickets. Where’s the fun in that?

That is a good compromise, though. …I have reservations in general about exposing spaces that are established by unsafe people for safety purposes. A women-only message board, for example. Perhaps he himself wouldn’t consciously characterize his blog that way, but I still don’t want to take it away from him. Even if I can’t agree with what he’s saying.

i also want to see your rant!!! is it linked somewhere or is it still in your head?

Head, spleen, whatever. Some of it has to do with intracommunity conflicts not directly related to sexism. I’ll put it up, then, and leave him out of it.

5 darkdaughta 3.23.2006 at 3:25 pm

What I’m really hoping will come out of the dialogue is not a single focussed political vision pitting reflections on patriarchy against racism against transphobia, but something more layered and complex that calls all of us to actually do the work of developing multiple streams of interlocking analysis.

No use looking at racism if you can’t understand your patriarchal ways or your sex negativity or your ableism or your lookism or your binary gender constructed self.

All these and more work together to create a complex matrix of power and domination. At this point in the histories and herstories of all our various struggles, we would do well to be able to tussle with all of it.

6 Sally 3.23.2006 at 7:43 pm

…and he mentions a white-queer tendency I’ve noticed and followed before: the tendency to appropriate the problems we don’t have, particularly those problems connected to racism. Take, for example, the oft-used immigration metaphor. If our audience sees national, geographical, and cultural position as fraught on a hundred different levels, then maybe it’s not so far off. If they’re locked into the hierarchical/aspirational picture of immigration, we wind up trivializing both groups. But whether we praise the terms offered or condemn them, we obliterate those people in the service of us: our legitimate citizenship, our legitimate fury. Me, me, me.

That’s interesting. I fell back on immigration metaphors when my doctor told me I might go deaf, I think because I really desperately needed a way to think about that possible future that involved reinvention and transformation and not just loss. It was just less depressing to think about leaving one place and going to another than to think about staying in the same place but not being able to function in it. But yeah, it was definitely me, me, me, and also a kind of strange reading of the immigrant experience. Mostly, I think I was (am) fixated on language and what it would mean not to be able to function in the kind of language I’m used to using, and I prefer to see going deaf as migrating from the hearing community to the Deaf one, rather than living in a hearing world while not able to hear. But that doesn’t have a whole lot to do with the global economic and political realities that cause people from some countries to move to other ones, nor with the economic and political realities that they encounter when they get there. I guess I need a new metaphor.

Hope that isn’t too off topic/ totally solipsistic.

7 brownfemipower 3.23.2006 at 11:06 pm

That is a good compromise, though. …I have reservations in general about exposing spaces that are established by unsafe people for safety purposes. A women-only message board, for example. Perhaps he himself wouldn’t consciously characterize his blog that way, but I still don’t want to take it away from him. Even if I can’t agree with what he’s saying.

i think you got it right on piny–
:-)

8 piny 3.24.2006 at 12:47 pm

Mostly, I think I was (am) fixated on language and what it would mean not to be able to function in the kind of language I’m used to using, and I prefer to see going deaf as migrating from the hearing community to the Deaf one, rather than living in a hearing world while not able to hear. But that doesn’t have a whole lot to do with the global economic and political realities that cause people from some countries to move to other ones, nor with the economic and political realities that they encounter when they get there. I guess I need a new metaphor.

It’s not like disability metaphors are not similarly appropriated. I think that it can be illuminating to explore mechanical similarities–like, for example, contemporary media coverage of the struggle to extend the franchise to dudes who weren’t white with that of the struggle to extend the franchise to people who weren’t dudes. Or looking at actual vs. assigned borders. But I think that’s different from reaching for someone else’s suffering to make your own sound more poignant.

And given that those people suffer from the same trivialization that you people are trying to overcome from the same people you people are trying to reach, it’s not like it works. You wind up assuming the rationalizations for the crimes perpetrated upon them, too. If I’m a gender immigrant, I must be really happy to have gotten out of Womanistan.

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