A conscience, historical awareness, and a set of political ethics?

I’ve decided that in my own case calling myself a feminist without apology is not only not inappropriate, but actively right.

I think that is terrific. I really dislike it when men will only self-identify as feminist if they get permission – not because they shouldn’t respect women’s authority, but because feminism is an ethical and philosphical issue as well as a political one, and the rightness of feminism can be figured out by anyone with some worldly experience and time to think; right feminist choices should never be taken on authority: that is, if a guy listens to me on what to call himself today, because I say I’m a feminist, what’s to stop him from listening to Camille Paglia on what women want tomorrow?

I want to expect the same things from all feminists, not to have a two-tiered system with easy, special standards for the men, who can only be pro-feminists. Fuck that. Men who are feminists can still be challenged on every bit of sexism they express. It makes it easier to call them on it, too, because they’ve committed themselves.

And no, this is not going to lead to people like Tlaloc delaring themselves feminists and stealing our authority. He’s a feminist like I’m Marie of Roumania, and everyone can see that.

The problem for you is that I do have sincere feminist beliefs which is exactly why I am hiostile to the ugly monster the movement has become. The fact that you haven’t figured this out is the answer to your question of why you should listen to me: I know something you don’t.

Man, that shit would be unbelievable if it weren’t so commonplace.

Anyway, contra Chris’s post, which I find convincing and well-reasoned, I do nonetheless call myself a feminist, mostly for reasons like the ones Jill spoke of waaaaaaaay up top there. In my own case, anyway, I consider it important to look people straight in the eye and use the word “feminist” to describe myself, because I know hardly any other people who do, women included (and I live deep in the heart of Blue Country, in Boston). So believing as I do that anyone with a conscience must advocate feminism, and knowing that I would draw less attention to myself if I didn’t claim the title (and the less attention I draw, the more comfortable I am), I’ve decided that in my own case calling myself a feminist without apology is not only not inappropriate, but actively right. I’m sure as hell not getting any street cred, undeserved or otherwise, out of it that I know of.

Sometime yesterday or the day before I wrote a post called Cry me a river, a megarant that overtook me like a volcanic eruption and ended up after I read black Blackademic : I am this close, in particular, this bit :
we are being linked and and that is g

Reformers are always bothers. The Catholics hated Martin Luthor. White bigots hated MLK. Bigots posing as feminists will certainly hate people like me because we don’t intend to let them slide on the matter.

Blah, blah blah, blah blah.

You prattle pretty lines like “women bear by far the greater share of sexism in western civ” all you wish, but it appears that you are more interested in launching an attack on the people and the movement that seeks to correct this inequality. At this point, I feel this is your only goal here.

That’s because in your estimation the movement exists “to correct this inequality.” I think you are dead wrong. The movement used to be dedicated to that. Now it only wants to create new inequalities. One that are more favorable to the leaders of the movement. They want to be the bosses rather than getting rid of the boss system altogether. This thread is perfect proof of that. Supposed feminists fighting bitterly for their right to exclude men only because of their gender, the very antithesis of what the movement is supposed to be.

In other words I am the one living up to my stated claims, its the other side that wallows in hypocrisy on this issue.

You are consistently pushing an anti-feminist agenda

The opposite actually.

Everything I’ve seen you post all comes back to “See, you don’t really want equality!”

It does tend because that is a huge problem with the movement. When that ceases to be an issue I’ll no longer be able to say that and back it up so easily.

After a while, it gets tiresome. Instead of being an engaging debate partner, you become a bother.

I’m sure I do. Reformers are always bothers. The Catholics hated Martin Luthor. White bigots hated MLK. Bigots posing as feminists will certainly hate people like me because we don’t intend to let them slide on the matter.

I was under the impression that the specific topic was whether men who hold genuinely pro-feminist views and who are genuinely interested in seeing the cause of feminism furthered should or should not append to themselves the label of “feminist.”

I took a slightly larger scale view of the topic.

I think Tlaloc has made it pretty clear that he’s hostile to feminism (I believe he said something about not wanting to participate in what he deems a “corrupt” movement, but frankly I’m too tired to find the exact quote to cut & paste it),

Indeed, I am hostile to the corruption of the feminist movement because it interferes with the uncorrupt feminist ideal.

I’d much rather hear from people with sincere feminist beliefs rather than people who are just using this topic as an exuse to stir shit up.

The problem for you is that I do have sincere feminist beliefs which is exactly why I am hiostile to the ugly monster the movement has become. The fact that you haven’t figured this out is the answer to your question of why you should listen to me: I know something you don’t.

I’ve explicitly stated that women bear by far the greater share of sexism in western civ. Should I write in all caps? Bold it? What exactly will it take for that message to penetrate?

To actually argue from that viewpoint. All I’ve seen you do is cower behind this statement while presenting an argument that puts men as the victims to the women’s movement.

It’s kind of like “actions speak louder than words”. Someone can say they are a nice guy until they are blue in the face, but if they go around kicking puppies all the day long, we know they are full of shit. Same thing here. You prattle pretty lines like “women bear by far the greater share of sexism in western civ” all you wish, but it appears that you are more interested in launching an attack on the people and the movement that seeks to correct this inequality. At this point, I feel this is your only goal here.

Hey, if you like to argue, that’s all fine and well. But it doesn’t appear that you are nit-picking for the love of arguing, like some people on here do. You are consistently pushing an anti-feminist agenda, and you twist the debate in all of the threads you post in to suit this one argument. Everything I’ve seen you post all comes back to “See, you don’t really want equality!” and in most cases, you’ve made that assumption after twisting someone’s words, taking them out of context, or interpreting them to suit your agenda. After a while, it gets tiresome. Instead of being an engaging debate partner, you become a bother.

Maybe try debating on threads that you don’t take so personally?