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  1. That Girl
    That Girl March 30, 2006 at 1:21 pm |

    Are we taking bets on “Probation” or “Not Guilty by Reason of Privledge” yet?

    I vote that one “boy” (cause man might sound like he was empowered in some way. Excuse me – they are using “players, students, and “team members”.) will get a few years (out in 6 months for good behavior) and the other 2 will get probation.

    The whinging about them all being “victims” of the offenders registration will commence at the start of the trial and ratchet up a notch after it becomes, effectively, the ONLY punishment the other two will ever “endure”.

    While claiming sorrow at the “misunderstanding” (those humorless bitches cant take a racial or sexist “joke”) the defense lawyers will drag this woman through the mud as effectivly as if they attached her to the back of their pickup.

    In five years the victim will have less than she has today in terms of self-esteem, money, ability to work, and more fear, self-loathing, and personal problems than she had in February while these assholes will have “gotten their life back on track” and be maybe a year behind where they were but still welcome wherever they want to go.

    I so wanna hurt someone.

  2. Jason
    Jason March 30, 2006 at 2:29 pm |

    In five years the victim will have less than she has today in terms of self-esteem, money, ability to work, and more fear, self-loathing, and personal problems than she had in February

    I don’t know about the money part. After all, Duke and these individual players surely have very deep pockets. I’m certain there will be a civil suit that will result in substantial compensation for the victim.

  3. Thomas
    Thomas March 30, 2006 at 3:13 pm |

    Jason, on my account, that’s a good thing. She’s been injured in a way that can never be wholly undone, both physically and psychologically. Just like any other person injured by the intentional acts, recklessness or negligence of another, she’s got a right to file a complaint and try to prove her allegations in a court of law. In this society, adversary process and the private right of action are major elements in how we compensate people for injuries that are the fault of others. Which is to say I hope she sues and gets a huge verdict. As a society, we ought to compensate her injuries; and we ought to do it at the expense of the folks at fault — the rapists and their aiders and abetters — and of the folks in the best position to prevent similar assaults in the future, the University.

  4. Gabriel Malor
    Gabriel Malor March 30, 2006 at 3:21 pm |

    Thomas, I don’t think Jason is disagreeing with you. He’s just saying that the original observation that she would be in worse shape monetarily in the future is probably not true.

  5. Jason
    Jason March 30, 2006 at 3:34 pm |

    Gabriel is right, I’m not disagreeing with Thomas. if she was indeed raped, or otherwise a victim of battery or the infliction of emotional duress, she is entitled to sue and entitled to a huge judgment. I’m just pointing out that this is a plaintiff’s lawyer’s wet dream. At least as far as the defendants’ deep pockets go. Yes, they are privileged and will have the money for attorneys, etc. But not only can you sue the individuals that allegedly committed the acts, you can also go after the University, the captains that organized the event, and probably most of the players present.

    Btw, I think this is one instance that if you listen to sports radio or read the sports section you will have heard this story before the other media and blogs picked it up. I was in the gym the other day and heard some guys talking about this (actually making a crude joke out of it).

  6. #7buslady
    #7buslady March 30, 2006 at 4:51 pm |

    I was in the gym the other day and heard some guys talking about this (actually making a crude joke out of it).

    did you call them on it?
    silence means approval.

  7. Thomas
    Thomas March 30, 2006 at 5:12 pm |

    Buslady, when I spent a lot of time at the gym, my standard response to offensive jokes (preferably mid-joke, since it’s often clear where they’re going) was “tell it where I can’t hear it!” I got some stares, but it always shut ‘em up.

  8. norbizness
    norbizness March 30, 2006 at 5:35 pm |

    If that’s the case, then the run Police Academy movies must be the most approved-of cinematic series in history.

    Homer: “We live in a society of laws! Why do you think I took you to all those Police Academy movies — for fun? well I didn’t hear anyone else laughing.. did you?”

    Actually, the first national attention I saw on the story was on ESPN, about 3 minutes in to their hour-long broadcast. They had what appears to be their version of a reporter in Durham on it.

  9. Jason
    Jason March 30, 2006 at 5:50 pm |

    did you call them on it?
    silence means approval.

    No, I didn’t call them on it. I’m not the joke police. Especially when I’m not part of the conversation (a couple of guys were talking to the guy biking next to me).

    The joke was pretty stupid: “Hey Jimbo [or whatever his name was]. I see that the Duke lacrosse team is using your dating strategy.”

  10. Rachel S
    Rachel S March 30, 2006 at 7:52 pm |

    You know the contrast between the early reports from the local paper and the early reports from national media were striking. Racism was central to the early version of the local paper’s story, and it read like a footnote in the national media. However, over the past 1.5 days the race and class aspects are getting much more attention from everybody. I am pleasantly surprised that they are thoroughly covering the story.

  11. That Girl
    That Girl March 30, 2006 at 9:06 pm |

    There is no such thing as “compensation” for rape. Certainly not monentary.

    I hope she does get a lot of money, for herself. Of course, Im sure one of the defense strategies will be to imply that the whole thing was made up just to get money.

    I wasn’t clear in my original post anyway. I didnt mean money overall, but “ability to earn money”.

  12. a nut
    a nut March 30, 2006 at 10:20 pm |

    Earlier this evening my mom looked right at me and said, “We don’t know if it happened or not because they’re still investigating.”

    When I asked if she thought the woman was lying then (incredulous at this point because I had expected better from my mom), she responded with, “Women lie about that stuff all the time.”

    AGH!

  13. Leo Strauss
    Leo Strauss March 30, 2006 at 10:37 pm |

    MSNBC is running some airtime tonite with the possible fraud/hoax angle. I didn’t pay attention to it as I walked by the sets in the store but it seems that some are promoting that line.

  14. Jill
    Jill March 30, 2006 at 11:22 pm | *

    I know a kid (a white male Duke student) who was robbed at gunpoint in Durham. He had no evidence of the robbery, other than his missing money and his word. And as far as I know, not once did someone suggest that he could be lying.

  15. Gabriel Malor
    Gabriel Malor March 31, 2006 at 12:17 am |

    Jill, one doesn’t need proof to claim that they were robbed (or raped or defrauded or battered or whatever). One does need proof to put someone in jail for it.

    It’s important that she not be dismissed out of hand because she’s a stripper. It’s equally important that these kids not be condemned because they’re rich white boys.

    Justice relies on proof. It isn’t outrageous to ask for some.

  16. Tuomas
    Tuomas March 31, 2006 at 4:40 am |

    The problem with comparing being robbed and being raped is that one does have a consensual, common non-crime equivalent and one does not. It is quite common for adults to engage in consensual sex, while an adult handing out a whole wallet consensually seems to me quite rare.

    If talking about assault etc. the difference is even more obvious. Imagine an assaulter claiming: “Yeah, I punched and kicked that guy, but he wanted it.” But this is what the basic rape defense is.

    It’s not only hit the national media, it’s the fourth-most-emailed story on the Times site.

    I hope this is enough to make the people who claim the case would have received more attention if the victim had been white and the perps black to finally STFU. :P

    But that said, if the guys are guilty, they deserve to be locked up for a long time, and yes, the racial slurs are a disgusting icing on the cake in this case.

    The gym discussion made me think that perhaps I shouldn’t doubt sexism and racism in the U.S so easily, as I have done. I visit the gym frequently, yet I haven’t heard a single misogynist joke. People just talk about everyday stuff or their training programs, and are polite to newcomers.

  17. jacob
    jacob March 31, 2006 at 10:47 am |

    If talking about assault etc. the difference is even more obvious. Imagine an assaulter claiming: “Yeah, I punched and kicked that guy, but he wanted it.” But this is what the basic rape defense is.

    It’s important to remember that that is exactly what is going on here. The victim presented at the hospital with swelling and other indications of forced vaginal and anal penetration. She was swollen in her face. She was having trouble walking. Quite apart from any DNA evidence, there is much evidence that shows that she was, in fact, raped.

    And the lacrosse team isn’t even claiming that they had consentual sex with her. They’re claiming that she danced and left that that was it. They apparently have no explanation for her wounds.

  18. Tuomas
    Tuomas March 31, 2006 at 6:30 pm |

    jacob:

    I stand corrected, I was generalizing about rape. Indeed, it seems that the evidence is strong in this case.

  19. Tuomas
    Tuomas March 31, 2006 at 6:35 pm |

    … And zuzu too. In the “stand corrected” thing.

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