(Even) More On The Duke Rape Case

There is so much good commentary going on about the Duke rape case that I would be remiss to not point it out. Bloggers have gone at this case from all angles, and it’s been really interesting to read what they’re saying. Head over to their blogs and check out the posts in their entirety.

First, from AngryBlackBitch:

This is an opportunity to address some shit. A bitch is deeply troubled by the lack of coverage being given to the separate incident of racial harassment that happened in association with that same house on the night of the alleged gang rape. A student called 911 and reported being shouted at and taunted with racial slurs while passing the house in question. So, mayhap there is something amiss in the house of Duke? And, rather than fall into public relations fuck up move number 2 (pontificating about what you have done right rather than point out how you will address all the fucking shit you have done wrong), Duke might want to take the opportunity to discuss it’s role in the community, the expectations of student behavior and what appears to be an outbreak of tired assed Strom Thurmondesque ‘black women sure are hot & I bet they really like it’ sexualized racism.

My thoughts are with the victim and she doesn’t need an indictment or a conviction for this bitch to have her back.

Lawd, a bitch is fed up with seeing Rape 101 pop up in college course guides year after year.

Maybe someone should address that with the same enthusiasm they put behind recruiting a motherfucking lacrosse team.

AngryBlackBitch further writes, “If a bitch had a dollar for every motherfucking ‘white boy’ and ‘black man’ reference that pops up in the press my ass would own Duke.” Pinko Feminist Hellcat touched on this issue in her expansive coverage of the Haidl OC rape case, where Greg Haidl was routinely characterized as an innocent little boy who was victimized by a lying slut (who liked being passed out and penetrated vaginally and anally with a variety of objects, including a pool cue and a bottle, and having a lit cigarette held to her vulva).

Rachel also points to problems with the coverage of rape cases, depending on who the perpetrators are.

The Duke Lacrosse team rape case has really touched a nerve with me, and one of the things that bothers me most is the discrepancies between how White men’s crimes and black men’s crimes are covered in the popular media. Since it is no longer politically correct to use blatant racist language or explicitly racial terms in these cases, we have to look beyond the surface. Black men who are accused of committing crimes against Whites, especially White women, are not directly labeled “scary Black men” but everything about the way the story is told promotes the “scary out of control Black man persona.” One of the most troubling ways this is done is by the use of special terms coined in honor of Black men’s crimes or criminal involvement.

The trend of giving special labels to Black men’s bad behavior (or in some cases alleged bad behavior) makes it seem as if Black men invented gang rape or the code of silence that prevents snitchin. If the young wealthy White men can hide beyond their attorneys and say they are not “snitchin” on advice of counsel, the outcome is the similar—the crime is harder to solve. If a group of these White guys decide to have a party where they invite strippers and engage in wilding, the outcome is similar–another woman is sexually assaulted. Unfortunately, most people(especially White folks) in American culture don’t see these behaviors as similar. They think that one Black person’s bad behavior is somehow representative of all Black people, not the individual Black person or people involved. They think subconsciously or consciously that Black men are dangerous and White men are the innocent boys next door. So next time you hear a special lable for Black men’s bad behavior. Please think twice.

Yes. Of course, some men are still happy believing that “some of the ladies don’t mind it” (no idea why HuffPo filed this under Ariel Sharon).

Amanda writes a short but compelling post on gang rape as the essential scene of patriarchy.

Instead, I’d like to talk about the act of the gang rape itself, because I reread an article recently that really gets to the heart of why it happens and why it’s possibly the most socially acceptable form of rape. It’s called “They don’t see it as rape. They see it as pleasure for them.” It’s about the growing problem of gang rape in England and it’s an evocative look at why gang rape exists and why it’s tolerated–to put it bluntly, in a male dominated society, gang rape is a version of fox hunting, a sport of sorts. It’s the patriarchy in its essence, where the leaders of male dominance are active sadists but their followers have managed to convince themselves they do like women, they aren’t evil, etc. In the article, it’s noted that often in a gang rape, some participants will help the victim clean up, give her money, even walk her home (presumably to protect her from rape). Accusations of effeminence are used to keep unwilling participants in the game. The victims are objects of male bonding.

I’ve joked in the past that the states that are lining up now to ban abortion after South Dakota reminds me of a gang rape. It does. The psychology is exactly the same–ganging up to show off who’s the most masculine, who can hurt the victims the most. And the victims are always, always pegged as guilty.

I agree. I also think that gang rape is interesting because it calls into question the idea that rapists are all “bad apples” or nutcases. These men are acting out male bonding over a female body. Have a cursory look at some internet porn and then tell me that gang-rape isn’t eroticized as a bonding experience for hetero men, and that even consensual group sex isn’t portrayed as one big power kick for men. I’m not trying to say that all men are rapists, but it’s dangerous to portray gang-rape as something that only men who are easily identifiable as “bad” would do. Violence against women is too regularly condoned and eroticized to believe that.

Some people have asked about statistics regarding rape and race. Here you go. A few that are worth pointing out:

Only 2% of rapists are convicted and imprisoned. Similarly, the false reporting rate hovers around 2%, just like most other crimes. Kind of makes all the hand-wringing about lying rape victims and all those falsely imprisoned men seem a bit disengenuous, doesn’t it? Consider, of course, that this concern for falsely accused men is coming largely from law-and-order conservatives who otherwise have a consistent mentality of, “lock ’em up and throw away the key — and if you can, execute ’em!” That isn’t to say that convicting innocent people isn’t a problem with every crime. But rape certainly gets singled out as the crime in which the most doubt is laid on the victim.

Reported rape victimization by race is: 34% of American Indian/Alaska Native; 24% women of mixed race; 19% of African American women; 18% of white women; 8% of Asian/Pacific Islander women. Keep in mind that these are the number of reported rapes. I don’t think it’s a stretch to imagine that women, but particularly women of color, would be very hesitant to report their assaults to white male police officers who, for various reasons, they might not trust.

22% of females raped are under the age of 12 years; 32% are 12-17 years old; 29% 18-24 years old; 17% over 25 years old. 83% of those raped are under the age of 25 years old.

1 in 12 male students surveyed had committed acts that met the legal definition of rape or attempted rape.

In a survey of college males who committed rape, 84% said what they did was definitely not rape.


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About Jill

Jill began blogging for Feministe in 2005. She has since written as a weekly columnist for the Guardian newspaper and in April 2014 she was appointed as senior political writer for Cosmopolitan magazine.
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45 Responses to (Even) More On The Duke Rape Case

  1. Ginger says:

    “Have a cursory look at some internet porn and then tell me that gang-rape isn’t eroticized as a bonding experience for hetero men, and that even consensual group sex isn’t portrayed as one big power kick for men.”

    The increasing popularity of gonzo porn certainly reflects this sentiment.

  2. “84% said what they did was definitely not rape”
    Why does that not suprise me? (Sorry ’bout the personal narrative here but) I went to a pub the other night and some jerk decided to slap my ass, just because it was there. And yet, when I tried to explain to him verbally and through gestures that slapping my ass is about the same as me slapping his face with the added benefit of being demeaning and lewd, he thought he had a right to get mad at me.

    So violence is okay, just as long as it’s sexualized and directed at a woman.

    Go figure.

  3. cooper says:

    Indeed I read this little ditty on this case over at real clear politics in the middle of the night which prompted me topost something about it despite my time contraints due to studies. It totally got under my skin.
    I especially loved this quote from the guy.

    Being a Maryland basketball fan I have no love for the Duke student body, but the idea that there is some kind of “culture of rape” at Duke University is just absurd. This type of attitude is a by-product of the Women’s Studies, leftist mentality that is so prevalent among student activists and faculty on college campuses.

    There are so many cross currents here (race, rape, privileged athletes, poor victim, college politics) it will be fascinating to see how this story unfolds as the facts spill out……which they will.

    This has the potential to blow up into a huge story.

  4. Nina says:

    I’m going to wait for the facts on this one. I’ve seen these things turn out both ways – either the usual spoiled frat boy thing, or the lying accuser thing.

    I don’t think you can really comment on this specific case until all the facts (or lack thereof) have been sorted out, and certainly not until the DNA tests are completed.

    I think it’s just as bad to falsly accuse someone of rape as it is to rape someone. That kind of false accusation is a rape of sorts in itself. If the accusation is public enough (as it is in this case), it can affect a person’s life forever.

    And, like I said, I’ve seen similar situations end up both ways. It’s as easy for me to believe the accusers are guilty of a crime as it is for me to believe the young men in question are. So I’m not going to act like I believe either until there’s some tangible, irrefutable evidence here.

  5. DrSue says:

    But, Nina, I don’t think the authorities are saying there is any question about whether or not she was raped–just about who did it. And the men aren’t talking, which does make them all culpable to some degree, morally, at least.

    This is an important point because of the “unjust imprisonment” argument the MRAs tend to make when the topic of rape is brought up. Sometimes the man who is accused is innocent because the victim, or a witness, is mistaken about his identity. That is a terrible tragedy for the unjustly accused man, but it doesn’t mean a rape didn’t occur.

  6. ms. jared says:

    thanks for the stats link. lots of good information there.

    we’re having the first annual walk against rape in san francisco next month to raise money and awareness about sexual violence. (so those of you that live here, please feel free to join us and/or donate.)

    it really upsets and infuriates me that people are so willing and eager to dismiss the overwhelming prevalence of sexual violence against women to focus instead on the supposed overwhelming prevalence of false accusations against men.

    personally, i know quite a few women who have been raped or sexually assaulted and only a small number of them ever reported it. the ones who didn’t stated fear of not being believed or of people thinking they deserved it as reasons for staying silent and i absolutely understand that. (as the comment strings on a number of blogs and message boards prove.)

    so, so, so many women and girls are raped every year and yet the discussion always, always, always comes back to this supposed trend of false accusations. it’s disappointing that even when it comes to violence against women, the women disappear and the discussion turns to the “poor men” who are falsely accused by these bitter, vindictive, lying women.

    xoxo, jared

  7. zuzu says:

    Nina, do you think it’s normal for someone who’s just participated in consensual group sex to have her cell phone lifted?

  8. ginmar says:

    “I think it’s just as serious a crime to falsely accuse someone as it is to rape someone.”

    Yeah, because I get those two confused all the time, what with the forced penetration, the humiliation, the public stoning——while any guy who gets ‘falsely’ accused instantly becomes a hero to the MRAs.

    Oh, yeah, and it’s not like spoiled jocks and lying accusers happen in the same proportion. Why are you comparing 96% to 4%? Rape has a 2% conviction rate and even women who tell the truth get called liars. So…huh?

  9. Tuomas says:

    I think AngryBlackBitch kind of has a point, kind of doesn’t.

    Observations about boys and men:

    1) College-aged men are often called boys. Colleges have fraternities, and it’s frat boys, not frat men. Therefore, addressing a young adult man as a boy is not uncommon in English language. Or perhaps they (frat boys) are called that because of the immaturity.

    except…

    2) The historical usage of the term ‘boy’ in racial contest. If I’ve read correctly, black men were routinely called boys by white men, even those younger than them (“you’re not a [real, powerful] man, boy”), thus it is incredibly offensive to call even a young black man ‘boy’. White young adult men have no such history, therefore they can be called boys without the historical connotations.

    Maybe the motive for the disparity is more of an issue of political correctness and historical conscience. Tragically, whatever the motive, the term ‘boy’ does imply a certain lack of accountability unlike ‘man’, and thus the double standard in this case ends up benefitting white perps. So in that aspect, AngryBlackBitch is correct.

    Unfortunately, most people(especially White folks) in American culture don’t see these behaviors as similar. They think that one Black person’s bad behavior is somehow representative of all Black people, not the individual Black person or people involved. They think subconsciously or consciously that Black men are dangerous and White men are the innocent boys next door. So next time you hear a special lable for Black men’s bad behavior. Please think twice.

    My experience (from back home and looking at the American media) is exactly the opposite: Whenever a non-white commits a horrible crime, the media is quick to remind that one must not demonize or generalize, that this is just a bad apple. Beware of racism! Yet when a white does it, all whites should be ashamed, look critically on their own culture and ‘entitlement’ or whatever. What’s more, the ‘tolerant’ leftists — in addition to believing in collective guilt (but only for whites) — commonly believe in hereditary guilt for whites (“the most historically privileged group”).

  10. Tuomas says:

    If it isn’t clear, I favor the invidual responsibility model all the way (both Black and White). Both double-standards are annoying.

  11. sophonisba says:

    I’m going to wait for the facts on this one. I’ve seen these things turn out both ways – either the usual spoiled frat boy thing, or the lying accuser thing.

    Yeah – bitch sodomizes herself and rips out her own fingernails to frame some guy, happens all the time.

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  13. kate says:

    Yeah – bitch sodomizes herself and rips out her own fingernails to frame some guy, happens all the time.

    Damn straight. And don’t forget the free shopping sprees, celebrity status, acting career, free nights out on the town, newfound popularity among peers, college scholarships and a fawning fan following.

  14. Sally says:

    Don’t forget the bit where she beat and partially strangled herself. You get extra bonus points in the evil bitch Olympics for the really hard stunts like that.

  15. kate says:

    I know this doesn’t have anything to do with the Duke case, but on another blog a commenter posted some blurbs about past ‘false accusation’ cases. This one particularly wrankled me:

    the video showed the [woman] threatening the players that she would go to police and invent a rape story if they did not pay her the $600 that they had previously agreed to in exchange for sex.

    Its ok for men to agree to an exchange in order to get what they want and then refuse to follow through after the deed is done. This is a beautiful example of how women in the sex industry have very little autonomy and depend entirely upon the male’s consent to participate on a level playing field. Taking advantage of women in the sex industry in this way is often another part of the continuum of male control over a women’s body.

    I am sad that these women must go through this. I am sadder still that so many women fall for the lie that the sex industry is a harmless way to make some good money.

  16. sophonisba says:

    hereditary guilt for whites (”the most historically privileged group”).

    Guilt, privilege, and responsibility are in point of fact three different and distinct things. The first clue that this is so might have been the fact that we have three different words for it.

    In fact the “leftists” you speak of commonly mention white “guilt” only to mock it, as people who talk about it are generally raging narcissists, whether they wallow pleasurably in their “guilt” or beat their breasts and rant and rave about how unfair it is that they should feel any “guilt”. All the while, of course, affecting not to notice that no one has asked them to.

  17. sophonisba says:

    An object lesson in the distinction I mentioned above: I feel something of a mild responsibility to speak up when I see a white person saying something idiotic about white people’s tender feelings and susceptibility to shame. This responsibility is self-imposed, since even if someone conceives an unflattering opinion of white people based on the offensive statement, no harm will come to me personally as a result of that opinion or stereotype. This is a result of privilege. Since nobody expects me to do anything either way, and since neither my speaking up nor my silence will accomplish anything productive, I feel no guilt for any of it.

    I hope this has been helpful.

  18. Tuomas says:

    Sophonisba:

    /off topic

    I’m not talking about tender feelings. I talk about real-world political consequences of the theories that dogmatically claim that all whites have privilege (which is supposedly non-measurable and invisible, but pervasive) over non-whites, and the proposed measures. That do come from people on the left side of the political spectrum, generally.

    The “white men are historically most privileged group” is the standard leftist excuse against AA for whites/men. I personally don’t support it either, but I feel if you’re going to be a collectivist who wants equal outcomes, better be that all the way, or invent a better excuse.

    /topic

    I’d much rather discuss the media disparity thing raised by ABB:s post, though, rather than this or whether I am narcissist or not.. I won’t be changing any hearts and minds on the privilege thing, and I’ve done it enough on this very site. It usually gets ugly.

  19. Tuomas says:

    AA: Affirmative Action, not Alcoholics Anonymous. Sorry.

  20. Sharon says:

    Here is an interesting supposition made by a commentor over at David Wright’s blog:

    allison made this comment,
    Let’s look at this one other way. I want to hope that the rape isn’t true. I won’t even discuss the racial part – that’s just disgusting. But back to the alleged rape. Let’s say these two ladies saw an opportunity to get some money. They go to perform where it is apparent the guys (or their family)have access to $. Perhaps there is a third party here who actually inflicts injuries that could easily be medically classified as a rape (could happen – there are some wierd people out there – did you see the Charlotte, NC case where they just arrested 3 guys for castrating willing people!!). Also, the fingernails could have been an intentional plant. The cheap ones from the dollar store will easily pop off vs. those done professionally. It really wouldn’t be that hard to have someone’s DNA if you are in a house with 30 guys and you’re stroking their hair or whatever. The Durham DA is really going to have some explaining and apologizing to do if it is found out this is was a well-planned event on the part of the ladies. And where is the 2nd lady anyway? Haven’t heard much from her. Where was she when the lady was getting raped?

    Downright Machiavellian, esp. keeping a third party on hand to rip your behind up.

  21. le lyons says:

    The whole “only 2% of rapists are convicted” stat really, really pisses me off. How on earth can we allow that statistic to remain?

    I work at a nonprofit that provides legal services to survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. The domestic violence hotline rings off the hook. The sexual assault hotline rings maybe once a week. Granted the two crimes are often related, but are dealt with in separate courts.

    We leave sexual assault prosecutions to an elected official – the district attorney. No wonder so few cases are prosecuted. What if the DA is racist, sexist or buddies with the rapist? The criminal justice system is far from perfect, and I can only hope that it will work correctly this time.

    Of course, every two minutes another rape occurs in the US alone. Not to mention the multitude of sexual violence on other continents. This problem is huge and extends far beyond this case. This case gives us something to talk about, something to be collectively outraged about, but I sure as hell hope we don’t stop talking once this particular case ends.

    I just wrote a post announcing a “Blog to Raise Awareness About Sexual Violence” day for April 18th. I would love to see the blogosphere continue to talk about sexual violence. Because only through keeping it at the forefront of our minds can we actually expect long-term change to happen.

  22. kate says:

    he “white men are historically most privileged group” is the standard leftist excuse against AA for whites/men.

    AH! Finally! A twelve-step program for white men to become aware of and deconstruct the racist patriarchy they grew up to support! Bravo! I’ll hand out flyers!

    Then:

    AA: Affirmative Action, not Alcoholics Anonymous. Sorry

    Well, not yet at least.

  23. Tuomas says:

    AH! Finally! A twelve-step program for white men to become aware of and deconstruct the racist patriarchy they grew up to support! Bravo! I’ll hand out flyers!

    Been there, done that, didn’t work. The program seems a bit too dogmatic to me. Show me the empirical evidence, and we’ll talk.

  24. sophonisba says:

    I talk about real-world political consequences of the theories that dogmatically claim that all whites have privilege (non-measurable and invisible

    No, It is certainly not invisible. Some people may claim that it is invisible to whites, just as male privilege is supposed to be invisible to men, but however well-intentioned, this is just a way to tell white people it’s natural if they don’t pay attention to the world around them. Yes, it often takes a jolt or a shock or the simple explanation of the concept for white people to start noticing the manifestations of their privilege or talking about it with this particular kind of jargon; no, this does not mean we can’t see it if we bother to look unless we are playing dumb.

    No, it is not non-measurable. Some manifestations of it are more subjective than others, but it is indeed possible to measure how often store detectives follow black customers as opposed to white ones, or how often black women are mocked for the texture of their hair compared with white ones, or how much encouragement black students are given compared with white ones, or how majority-black school districts compare with majority-white ones, or how black regional accents are stereotyped and mocked compared with white ones, or how often employers discard the resumes of applicants with stereotypically “black” names. These are merely some obvious examples of things that can be meaningfully studied, not an attempt at a comprehensive list. There are, in addition, a multitude of things that cannot be measured precisely, only described. This does not mean that they do not exist.

    In short, I am not familiar with this use of the word “dogma” to mean observable, observed, studied, documented reality.

  25. sophonisba says:

    Show me the empirical evidence, and we’ll talk.

    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3495/is_2_48/ai_97873146

    Note that these were made-up resumes, so the ‘obvious’ excuse, that the ‘black’ applicants were less qualified, will not work.

  26. Tuomas says:

    Sophonisba:

    Those things can be observed without getting in to the whole “the only reason whites are doing better is the systematic oppression and privilege” -camp. Also, anecdotes can be traded till kingdom come, but the theories on privilege make it harder to see those cases where the traditionally “privileged” groups are discriminated against. Herein lies the dogma. Also, differential outcomes are seen as almost completely social problem. Then various centralized solutions are offered: Governmental regulation on hiring etc.

    Much of these cases (in which you use, almost without fail, a passive tone: “how black regional accents are stereotyped” – by whom?) If you want to change attitudes, fine and admirable. Too often this is done by unconstructive collective self-loathing, seeking power via specific legislation, grandstanding to other “privileged” people (look at my anti-racism bona fides! I’m more tolerant than you are!), using the “unprivileged” as tools in a power struggle, and fetishization of “the other” (all the good values are projected to the object of idolization, which is turned into some kind of noble savage, I suppose) that I don’t want any part with.

  27. Tuomas says:

    Note that these were made-up resumes, so the ‘obvious’ excuse, that the ‘black’ applicants were less qualified, will not work.

    “A black applicant? Sheesh, some unqualified affirmative action student, I bet. Besides, black workers are harder to fire because of the racial factor and anti-discrimination laws, so I’d better be safe than sorry.”

  28. randomliberal/Robert says:

    “A black applicant? Sheesh, some unqualified affirmative action student, I bet. Besides, black workers are harder to fire because of the racial factor and anti-discrimination laws, so I’d better be safe than sorry.”

    I think that says pretty much everything we need to know here…

  29. Tuomas says:

    Glad to be of assistance. Now you (plural) know that I am capable of imitating (hence the quotation marks) the thought processes of a discriminating employer, which undoubtedly is a very important thing to know.

  30. Tuomas says:

    Or perhaps you have a better theory on why the employers choose employees with white-sounding names than the one I offered?

    That they are racist (as is the majority of peple of all colors) is obvious, but how and why is the question here.

  31. Tuomas says:

    peple…

    people.

  32. sophonisba says:

    anecdotes can be traded till kingdom come

    That’s why I offered you one example of a study of racism, rather than some useless personal anecdotes. You can find many, many others on your own. If, you know, you care to.

    theories on privilege make it harder to see those cases where the traditionally “privileged” groups are discriminated against.

    because? Explanation? Argument? Supporting evidence? Any reason at all for asserting this?

    “Privilege” doesn’t exist without context. We’re all well aware of this. In a brothel, a secretarial pool, a daycare center, women enjoy our own dubious kinds of privilege, as do members of every “unprivileged” group, somewhere, at least once in a while. So what? How is this hard to figure out? How does the language of privilege make this harder to see? I think it makes it a lot easier, because it offers a framework and a vocabulary to hang our observations on.

    unconstructive collective self-loathing

    Like the “guilt” bit, which you seem to have quietly dropped as indefensible, this is boring navel-gazing that no one is asking for and no one is interested in but you. If you are not able to look at racism and white privilege without falling into some freaky pit of self-flagellation, that’s your problem. It’s not mine.

    grandstanding to other “privileged” people

    Yes. I wish you would stop it.

  33. Anne says:

    Yet when a white does it, all whites should be ashamed, look critically on their own culture and ‘entitlement’ or whatever.

    I have never gotten this message from the media.

  34. Tuomas says:

    That’s why I offered you one example of a study of racism, rather than some useless personal anecdotes.

    You actually offered both, and I crossposted with the study part. So drop it.

  35. Shannon W. says:

    Here are some links, for some of the people in the audience:

    Try my reading list, try Ally Work’s reading list , Promethus 6’s blog and the radical women of color blog ring for resources on why we are so hard on Tuomas. I am of the position that people who actually experence something are more entitled to talk about what it is than people who have not bothered to even study it.

  36. Jason says:

    For a different view on some of the facts, TalkLeft has a couple of good entries about the incident:

    http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014436.html

    http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014448.html

  37. Jill says:

    “Good” wouldn’t have been my word of choice, but…

  38. Jason says:

    Good” wouldn’t have been my word of choice, but…

    Well, it’s not good if you have already convicted the entire Duke lacrosse team. I know most people on here only have one story they will ever possible believe, but I like considering all the facts before I rush to judgment.

    Jeralyn is very rational and she has the criminal defense experience hold my attention. Certianly she warrants listening to.

    I get so bummed out by these threads. It always seems to spiral downward to accusations of misogyny agianst those that don’t accept the allegations whole cloth.

  39. ginmar says:

    Uh, Jason, those threads consist of little but victim bashing and you’re in favor of them? She starts out with a quote from a three-hundred-year-old witch hunter, for Christ’s sake.

    Let’s see: bash the attackers, who are acting suspicioiusly, and their supporters, who just want to call women liars and talk about women lying, or bash the victim? Hm, tough choice.

    Yeah, gotta like a guy that whines about misogyny in discussing a crime where the standard response is to call the victim a liar, and then bring up cases where other women have lied. I mean, considering all the cases where men lying results in them getting away with rape.

  40. Shannon W. says:

    Jason, we follow these stories, and many of us listen to the survivors of rape- some of whom never reported it to the police, because they were afraid. So what seems exciting and new to you seems very old to us. Over and over, we hear that women lie about rape- but our friends, our sisters, our mothers keep on getting raped, and nothing seems to be done about it. We hear cases with video evidence ending in men getting off, and cases where the men have prior convictions getting off, and that sort of ‘women are hysterical liars’ viewpoint no longer rings true for us. There are other spaces.

  41. Chicklet says:

    It’s not a “culture of rape” that’s the problem at schools like Duke, it’s the culture of entitlement. Many of these lacrosse players were raised by hyperindulgent parents who cheered every pass, save or goal as if it was on par with turning water into wine. Look at the trend of “helicopter parenting” that is driving college administrators nuts with parents demanding their children be treated like hothouse flowers. These players have had every bump in the road smoothed over for them.

    The stonewalling by the team is common among priviledged, coddled brats and deluded parents who think their precious spawn pee rainbows and crap puppies.

    If the Duke president had any kind of a spine, he would have had the whole team assembled an hour after finding out, and offered the players a choice – cooperate with the investigation or get kicked out of school and lose your athletic scholarship.

  42. ginmar says:

    Ah, the good old ‘change it from the specific to the general’ so we can avoid discussing how women are specifically targeted by a rape culture.

    Men are more entitled than women. Period. Men rape women. Add the two, and you get a rape culture.

  43. Sheelzebub says:

    You’re bringing up Jeralyn as an example of rationality in a rape case?

    Oh, puleeze.

    She basically called the woman a liar–said that the physical evidence could be explained away by a scuffle over a refusal to pay. She also posted completely wrong info on her blog–she said that the 911 callers were the dancers. We don’t know if this is true–no one has been able to identify the caller.

    For someone who preaches to the masses about keeping our traps shut in favor of innocent until proven guilty, she throws the standard out the window when it comes to trashing the woman involved.

  44. Lauren says:

    Not to mention that “criminal defense” generally means “doing everything possible to trash victims.” But that’s already been said. Jeralyn isn’t much of a friend to rape survivors — and why would she be? Her payload — and FOX News appearances — depends on it.

  45. Medicine Man says:

    I don’t know about the whole “culture of rape” theory, but I do agree that frat and sports clubs all too often provide moral and extralegal cover to young men who engage in criminal behavior. The atmosphere of peer-approval makes even morally repugnant behavior acceptable, on some level, and the relatively closed community of these groups creates a self-reinforcing little bubble of reality. I can almost imagine what it must be like in that lacross team right now; a bunch of scared puppies clustering around the ankles of a few unrepentant alpha males, all but the worst of them slowly becoming aware of how seriously screwed up their situation is. Once that bubble of reality is pierced (and it will be), I imagine we’re going to see more than a few puppies hysterically clamoring to sell out their fair weather team mates; tears, recriminations and terror for all to see. I confess that I don’t find the prospect of this spectacle unpleasant.

    Its a little unfortunate that you all are so hard on Nina though. I would say that given the charges that are being levelled at the lacross team, it seems likely that the young lady is telling the truth; however, Nina is essentially correct that people should wait for all the facts to become known before passing judgement. It just seems that she was unaware of the extent of what is already known (ie. the fingernails, physical injuries, robbery, etc.). It would seem that the case has already progressed well beyond the “he said, she said” phase.

    One of the things that really disturbs me about this kind of crime is the gang mentality involved. Was it just the worst of them that assaulted that woman, or was it one irredemable discharge and his two mild mannered sidekicks? And how many of these young men that are now remaining stoicly silent are upstanding in other regards? How badly does an ordinary person’s moral compass have to be muddied, his sense of self subordinate to his sense of belonging, to tolerate the objectification and brutalization of another human being? I really hope that it is just fear that is making those creeps circle the wagons…

    Anyhow, I hope justice is served in due time. I also hope that the young lady gets back (in time) what was taken from her, whether it was rape or “merely” assault.

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