Pretty much; my post written particularly to respond to David Brooks’s column about “moral manhood.” Chivalry was entitlement, and that entitlement frequently extended to rape. The idea that bad traditional masculinity can be separated from good traditional masculinity is false and extremely dangerous. We’re talking about a single ethos.

I’ll have to read Brook’s column then. You won’t get much arguement from me about Chivalry being a dangerous thing though. Its a philosophy dangerously estranged from the realities of our time and it wasn’t based on pragmatism to begin with. I understand that this is a woman’s blog, but it would be an interesting exercise to tally up the various ways that chivalry has abused both genders and then compare. It hasn’t exactly served us very well for at least the last century.

Yeah, I get what you’re saying Piny. I think you’re a little oblique about how you make your point but not incomprehensible. Correct me if I’m wrong: You’re arguing that the way people become socialized to regard heinious crimes, such as lynching, as not only necessary but celebrated activities, is similar to the culture of acceptable elitism, racism and sexual predation that emerges in some privilaged cliques, such as the Duke Lacross team.

Pretty much; my post written particularly to respond to David Brooks’s column about “moral manhood.” Chivalry was entitlement, and that entitlement frequently extended to rape. The idea that bad traditional masculinity can be separated from good traditional masculinity is false and extremely dangerous. We’re talking about a single ethos. In this case, we have people arguing that it is not only permissible but good that these men should be able to rape these women pretty much with impunity.

It is a bit thin skinned to dismiss Darleen as “not worth talking to” though. Judging from what she writes, it seems clear that she’s mistaken the main thrust of your arguement, not that she’s trying to discredit it entirely. Her contention is that social acceptance of cruelty is not a trait unique to whites; which is not something you are actually claiming, but a conclusion a third party could jump to based on your choice of examples (lynching and the Duke case). You could clear up the misunderstanding by pointing out that your logic could easily apply to… let’s say… post-Yugoslavian ethnic groups enacting social justice upon one another by mass murder.

I used two other examples as well, one of which is not primarily about race; her decision to focus solely on the Duke example–which is also not only about race–is part of why I have no interest in talking to her any longer. To be fair, she’s probably never heard of one of them…No, wait, that wouldn’t count in her favor.

While Frankl’s words are both powerful and incisive, in this context they are a dodge. While he argued that we continually can be moral people, he never argued that the camp guards were living moral lives; nor would he have accepted an equivalency between those who survived in the camps and those who built and maintained them. And like I said, he was a Holocaust survivor; using his words to whine about “collectivism” insults him. If she tries long and hard enough, I’m sure she can find someone willing to see her Frankl and raise her Levi or Wiesel; I have better ways to spend my time.

I do appreciate your comments, and I’m glad you replied to this post.

Sheesh, it’s like you people think the burden of proof immediately falls on the accused.

Not at all.

However, if you expect to be taken seriously on a feminist blog after making claims that the results of the DNA testing you havent’ seen “exonerate” the defendants, you should be prepared to provide links, cites and whatnot when challenged to do so.

And I notice you haven’t done that at all. You’ve merely repeated your tiresome little “get a rope” trope ad nauseam. So much so, in fact, I’m considering putting you on moderation if you say it once more and dodge my very simple question again:

What exoneration?

You know, if your sense of outrage needs something to focus on, how about actual, ongoing racist mass rape/slavery of black women and children?

Where is the DNA evidence for that!!!!

;)

You know, if your sense of outrage needs something to focus on, how about actual, ongoing racist mass rape/slavery of black women and children?

Their accounts appear to corroborate claims made privately by Sudanese and United Nations officials, and are the latest evidence that government forces are involved in activities which Khartoum blames on the Janjaweed militia.

“The army captured many children and women hiding in the bush outside burnt villages,” said a senior politician in Khartoum who is familiar with the cases but asked not to be named.

“They were transported by plane to Khartoum at night, and divided up among soldiers as domestic workers and in some cases wives.”

The two women, from different villages, were abducted almost a year apart – yet their accounts reveal chilling similarities of a systematic process run by the country’s military.

One victim, Bokur Hamis, 21, who eventually escaped and is now in hiding in Soba, on the outskirts of Khartoum, claimed that she was seized from Jartage, her home village, last year. “Soldiers attacked with heavy guns,” she said.

“Most of the men in the village were unarmed, and they were killed.”

The women headed to a nearby lake and tried to hide under the water but were caught.

“Each of us was raped by between three and six men,” said Bokur. “One woman refused to have sex with them, so they split her head into pieces with an axe in front of us.”

The soldiers tried to bundle her into a truck, she said. “I refused, so one of them hit me with a cane, broke my rib, then threw me in. They took 43 of us in Land Cruisers and drove for two days without food or water.”

She looked down at the ground and spoke more slowly. “In the middle of the night we reached a place with lights and they put us directly on a huge aeroplane. I thought they’d kill me.

There were girls from other villages, I knew about 10.” On the plane, as the escorting soldiers gloated at the number of girls they had taken, their captives sat in fearful silence.

Baxit Zaruuk, 14, who was kidnapped from the village of Mokjar, has a similar story. “The soldiers and Janjaweed came into the village and threatened to kill us if we didn’t go with them,” she said.

She also was taken to an airfield, where she said that there were 25 girls from different areas. “They put us all on two planes, each with about 100 soldiers.

In Khartoum we were all taken to a place along the Nile and raped at gunpoint.” She was handed to a soldier as his “wife”.

At least until we hear some actual evidence against the Duke boys.

It does appear that there’s evidence that the woman was raped, assaulted and robbed. What there isn’t yet is evidence to link any particular person to that.