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	<title>Comments on: I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s what they meant by &#8220;barrier method&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:14:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: bellatrys</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40788</link>
		<dc:creator>bellatrys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40788</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;

The police reports of store thefts and burglaries are in the local newspapers up here, Glaivester. If you believed in racial theories of criminality, living in NH you&#039;d have to conclude that being French was a primary cause of crime...&lt;/i&gt;</description>
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<p>The police reports of store thefts and burglaries are in the local newspapers up here, Glaivester. If you believed in racial theories of criminality, living in NH you&#8217;d have to conclude that being French was a primary cause of crime&#8230;</i></p>
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		<title>By: Dianne</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40746</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Apr 2006 01:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Michael Fumento has never published in the peer reviewed literature. Therefore, he is simply not a credible source. Certainly not credible as a sole source of data. Can you find any actual peer reviewed studies that back your claims?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Fumento has never published in the peer reviewed literature. Therefore, he is simply not a credible source. Certainly not credible as a sole source of data. Can you find any actual peer reviewed studies that back your claims?</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40680</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Apr 2006 14:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40680</guid>
		<description>Glaivster-

First, you said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;HIV is rarely spread through vaginal sex. It is sexually spread mainly through anal sex. The largest spreader of AIDS in Washington D.C. is prob ably through intravenous drug use.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Then to back that up,
&lt;blockquote&gt;As for the statistics that show how many men get AIDS with no risk factors other than vaginal intercourse, Fumento has pointed out that in a lot of those cases, people merely took the man at his word; New York City, when it investigated such cases, found that the vast majority of men who “got AIDS from a woman” actually had other risk factors that they had lied about&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Even if we take your statistics on their face, that still doesn&#039;t prove anything. Why? Because you completely left women out of the picture. If AIDS is rarely spread through vaginal sex, how are women getting it? Definitely not through lesbianism. So they&#039;re all having anal sex or what?

Now, you&#039;re right in that it&#039;s much more difficult for men to contract HIV through vaginal sex; it&#039;s more difficult for men to contract any body-fluid-based STI through vaginal sex (or through anal sex if they&#039;re the one giving). Basically, the receptive partner is any sexual act is more vulnerable to STIs. But since when are we just talking about men? To state that &quot;HIV is rarely spread through vaginal sex&quot; and then to back it up how you do ignores the entire half of the population with vaginas. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glaivster-</p>
<p>First, you said:</p>
<blockquote><p>HIV is rarely spread through vaginal sex. It is sexually spread mainly through anal sex. The largest spreader of AIDS in Washington D.C. is prob ably through intravenous drug use.</p></blockquote>
<p>Then to back that up,</p>
<blockquote><p>As for the statistics that show how many men get AIDS with no risk factors other than vaginal intercourse, Fumento has pointed out that in a lot of those cases, people merely took the man at his word; New York City, when it investigated such cases, found that the vast majority of men who “got AIDS from a woman” actually had other risk factors that they had lied about</p></blockquote>
<p>Even if we take your statistics on their face, that still doesn&#8217;t prove anything. Why? Because you completely left women out of the picture. If AIDS is rarely spread through vaginal sex, how are women getting it? Definitely not through lesbianism. So they&#8217;re all having anal sex or what?</p>
<p>Now, you&#8217;re right in that it&#8217;s much more difficult for men to contract HIV through vaginal sex; it&#8217;s more difficult for men to contract any body-fluid-based STI through vaginal sex (or through anal sex if they&#8217;re the one giving). Basically, the receptive partner is any sexual act is more vulnerable to STIs. But since when are we just talking about men? To state that &#8220;HIV is rarely spread through vaginal sex&#8221; and then to back it up how you do ignores the entire half of the population with vaginas.</p>
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		<title>By: zuzu</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40670</link>
		<dc:creator>zuzu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Apr 2006 13:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40670</guid>
		<description>Glaivester, you should know better than to offer cites to a thinktank Townhall wingnut who isn&#039;t even a scientist for stats like that:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Michael Fumento is an author, journalist, and attorney specializing in science and health issues. He is a regular contributor to Townhall, and a Senior Fellow at the Hudson Institute in Washington, D.C. He received his undergraduate degree while serving in the Army, where he achieved the rank of sergeant. In 1985 he was graduated from the University of Illinois College of Law.

He has been a science columnist for the Scripps Howard New Service, a legal writer for the Washington Times, editorial writer for the Rocky Mountain News in Denver, and was the first &quot;National Issues&quot; reporter for Investor&#039;s Business Daily. In 2005 he reported from Iraq as an embed with the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force in Fallujah.

Mr. Fumento was the 1994 Warren T. Brookes Fellow in Environmental Journalism at the Competitive Enterprise Institute in Washington, D.C., a fellow with Consumer Alert in Washington, D.C., and a science correspondent for Reason magazine. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

And you&#039;re seriously citing &quot;rumored&quot; bisexuality in the case of Magic Johnson?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glaivester, you should know better than to offer cites to a thinktank Townhall wingnut who isn&#8217;t even a scientist for stats like that:</p>
<blockquote><p>Michael Fumento is an author, journalist, and attorney specializing in science and health issues. He is a regular contributor to Townhall, and a Senior Fellow at the Hudson Institute in Washington, D.C. He received his undergraduate degree while serving in the Army, where he achieved the rank of sergeant. In 1985 he was graduated from the University of Illinois College of Law.</p>
<p>He has been a science columnist for the Scripps Howard New Service, a legal writer for the Washington Times, editorial writer for the Rocky Mountain News in Denver, and was the first &#8220;National Issues&#8221; reporter for Investor&#8217;s Business Daily. In 2005 he reported from Iraq as an embed with the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force in Fallujah.</p>
<p>Mr. Fumento was the 1994 Warren T. Brookes Fellow in Environmental Journalism at the Competitive Enterprise Institute in Washington, D.C., a fellow with Consumer Alert in Washington, D.C., and a science correspondent for Reason magazine. </p></blockquote>
<p>And you&#8217;re seriously citing &#8220;rumored&#8221; bisexuality in the case of Magic Johnson?</p>
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		<title>By: Glaivester</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40668</link>
		<dc:creator>Glaivester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Apr 2006 13:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40668</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I won’t be so crude as to go BWAHAHAHAHA on this, but do you have a cite?&lt;/i&gt;

Michael Fumento wrote about this in several places:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fumento.com/hetmyth.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fumento.com/mrmyth.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fumento.com/comment.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

As for the statistics that show how many men get AIDS with no risk factors other than vaginal intercourse, Fumento has pointed out that in a lot of those cases,  people merely took the man at his word; New York City, when it investigated such cases, found that the vast majority of men who &quot;got AIDS from a woman&quot; actually had other risk factors that they had lied about (see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fumento.com/pozaids.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;).

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fumento.com/specmagic.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Magic Johnson was long rumored to have been bisexual before he announced that he was HIV-positive&lt;/a&gt;.

Even in Africa, it is highly likely that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fumento.com/disease/aids2005.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;risk factors other than heterosexual intercourse are actually to blame for the AIDS epidemic&lt;/a&gt;.

In any  case, I am not suggesting that we shouldn&#039;t care whether condoms are available to homosexuals or that there are no reasons why heterosexuals should have access to condoms.  I was just pointing out that of the arguments for condom availability, &quot;1 in 20 Washington D.C.-ites have HIV&quot; is probably not the strongest one, as I doubt that sex is the cause of most of those infections.  (I suspect that intravenous drug use is the major cause, and therefore, in terms of containing AIDS, a needle exchange program is the most important thing for which to push.  This doesn&#039;t mean you shouldn&#039;t be concerned with condom use, but it should not be emphasized at the expense of emphasizing IV drug use as a cause and attempting to reduce the infections caused by that).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I won’t be so crude as to go BWAHAHAHAHA on this, but do you have a cite?</i></p>
<p>Michael Fumento wrote about this in several places:<br />
<a href="http://www.fumento.com/hetmyth.html" rel="nofollow">Here</a><br />
<a href="http://www.fumento.com/mrmyth.html" rel="nofollow">here</a><br />
<a href="http://www.fumento.com/comment.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>As for the statistics that show how many men get AIDS with no risk factors other than vaginal intercourse, Fumento has pointed out that in a lot of those cases,  people merely took the man at his word; New York City, when it investigated such cases, found that the vast majority of men who &#8220;got AIDS from a woman&#8221; actually had other risk factors that they had lied about (see <a href="http://www.fumento.com/pozaids.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>).</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fumento.com/specmagic.html" rel="nofollow">Magic Johnson was long rumored to have been bisexual before he announced that he was HIV-positive</a>.</p>
<p>Even in Africa, it is highly likely that <a href="http://www.fumento.com/disease/aids2005.html" rel="nofollow">risk factors other than heterosexual intercourse are actually to blame for the AIDS epidemic</a>.</p>
<p>In any  case, I am not suggesting that we shouldn&#8217;t care whether condoms are available to homosexuals or that there are no reasons why heterosexuals should have access to condoms.  I was just pointing out that of the arguments for condom availability, &#8220;1 in 20 Washington D.C.-ites have HIV&#8221; is probably not the strongest one, as I doubt that sex is the cause of most of those infections.  (I suspect that intravenous drug use is the major cause, and therefore, in terms of containing AIDS, a needle exchange program is the most important thing for which to push.  This doesn&#8217;t mean you shouldn&#8217;t be concerned with condom use, but it should not be emphasized at the expense of emphasizing IV drug use as a cause and attempting to reduce the infections caused by that).</p>
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		<title>By: Glaivester</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40666</link>
		<dc:creator>Glaivester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40666</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;When I moved up to New Hampster, I noticed that hostile seperalities such as glass walled clerks in liquor stores, bars on desirables in stores, pull down metal gates and doors just aren’t around here.

Yet people up here steal just as much as anyone else.

But they are white.
&lt;/i&gt;

Do you know that they steal just as much as anyone else, or are you just assuming it, because you believe that everyone is the same?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>When I moved up to New Hampster, I noticed that hostile seperalities such as glass walled clerks in liquor stores, bars on desirables in stores, pull down metal gates and doors just aren’t around here.</p>
<p>Yet people up here steal just as much as anyone else.</p>
<p>But they are white.<br />
</i></p>
<p>Do you know that they steal just as much as anyone else, or are you just assuming it, because you believe that everyone is the same?</p>
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		<title>By: hexyhex</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40665</link>
		<dc:creator>hexyhex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40665</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;People should be educated about that and practice abstinence&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I love how he ties education about the efficiency of condom use to abstinence. Why not educate people about the efficiency of condom use, then allow them to use that education to use the damn things more efficiently? Or educate them about the efficiency of condom use, and allow them to use that information to make the informed decision to use multiple forms of contraception, etc and so forth?

When I was doing teen sex ed and female safety, we handed out various cards with information on them. They all had information about where to get free condoms... youth center, council, sexual health clinic, medical center... etc and so forth. We found we were dealing with two seperate problems: the actual response received by pharmacists when teens asked for condoms, and the response anticipated by the teens. In the case of our local area, it turned out that the problem was largely in perception. There was actually little to no condemnation or likewise issued by pharmacy or supermarket staff, but the teens would often &quot;chicken out&quot; because they thought they&#039;d be lectured.

It seems that kids in the areas mentioned may be facing a different experience.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>People should be educated about that and practice abstinence</p></blockquote>
<p>I love how he ties education about the efficiency of condom use to abstinence. Why not educate people about the efficiency of condom use, then allow them to use that education to use the damn things more efficiently? Or educate them about the efficiency of condom use, and allow them to use that information to make the informed decision to use multiple forms of contraception, etc and so forth?</p>
<p>When I was doing teen sex ed and female safety, we handed out various cards with information on them. They all had information about where to get free condoms&#8230; youth center, council, sexual health clinic, medical center&#8230; etc and so forth. We found we were dealing with two seperate problems: the actual response received by pharmacists when teens asked for condoms, and the response anticipated by the teens. In the case of our local area, it turned out that the problem was largely in perception. There was actually little to no condemnation or likewise issued by pharmacy or supermarket staff, but the teens would often &#8220;chicken out&#8221; because they thought they&#8217;d be lectured.</p>
<p>It seems that kids in the areas mentioned may be facing a different experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40646</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Apr 2006 02:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40646</guid>
		<description>Yeah, it&#039;s really hard to guess at someone&#039;s discomfort level... my husband is actually far more sexually experienced than I am, and yet the first time we had to buy condoms, he tunred 8 shades of red and refused to coem to the counter with me. I, for one, know that if I had to ask someone to get them for me, I would leave without them. I don&#039;t want to involve the entire store in knowing that at some point in the near future, I am planning on having sex and I have been married for almost 5 years and have 3 children. Now, I could order them from the internet, get them from my doctor, etc... but as a teenager, had I been sexually active as a high schooler, I wouldn&#039;t have had any of those options and in the small town I lived in, there is no way I was asking someone to unlock them. That would&#039;ve greatly increased the probability of someone I know seeing me and telling my parents. Who would&#039;ve killed me, just FYI.  
That being said, I do agree that companies have a right to protect themselves from theft. I don&#039;t know what the answer is, but the idea of condoms and pregnany tests (another thing I have always been slightly embarrassed buying, even with planned, actively tried for pregnancies) being locked up is very scary. Should we concentrate on erasing the social stigma? Absolutely. But with several groups on the other side fighting equally as hard to maintain or increase the social shame/stigma, it&#039;s not an overnight cure. It would be much more prudent to find easier theft avoidance solutions while working on reducing stigma. I&#039;m just not sure what.... ink tags? That might work. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s really hard to guess at someone&#8217;s discomfort level&#8230; my husband is actually far more sexually experienced than I am, and yet the first time we had to buy condoms, he tunred 8 shades of red and refused to coem to the counter with me. I, for one, know that if I had to ask someone to get them for me, I would leave without them. I don&#8217;t want to involve the entire store in knowing that at some point in the near future, I am planning on having sex and I have been married for almost 5 years and have 3 children. Now, I could order them from the internet, get them from my doctor, etc&#8230; but as a teenager, had I been sexually active as a high schooler, I wouldn&#8217;t have had any of those options and in the small town I lived in, there is no way I was asking someone to unlock them. That would&#8217;ve greatly increased the probability of someone I know seeing me and telling my parents. Who would&#8217;ve killed me, just FYI.<br />
That being said, I do agree that companies have a right to protect themselves from theft. I don&#8217;t know what the answer is, but the idea of condoms and pregnany tests (another thing I have always been slightly embarrassed buying, even with planned, actively tried for pregnancies) being locked up is very scary. Should we concentrate on erasing the social stigma? Absolutely. But with several groups on the other side fighting equally as hard to maintain or increase the social shame/stigma, it&#8217;s not an overnight cure. It would be much more prudent to find easier theft avoidance solutions while working on reducing stigma. I&#8217;m just not sure what&#8230;. ink tags? That might work.</p>
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		<title>By: Hubris</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40642</link>
		<dc:creator>Hubris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Apr 2006 02:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40642</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;And Hubris, being an underage male and asking for condoms doesn’t quite make a suitable comparison to an underage female making such a request to an adult.&lt;/em&gt;

Well, the girl (Jo _______) who was with me was buying some too, if that helps firm up my anecdote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>And Hubris, being an underage male and asking for condoms doesn’t quite make a suitable comparison to an underage female making such a request to an adult.</em></p>
<p>Well, the girl (Jo _______) who was with me was buying some too, if that helps firm up my anecdote.</p>
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		<title>By: piecesofeight</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40634</link>
		<dc:creator>piecesofeight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Apr 2006 00:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/14/i-dont-think-thats-what-they-meant-by-barrier-method/#comment-40634</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;being an underage male and asking for condoms doesn’t quite make a suitable comparison to an underage female making such a request to an adult.&lt;/em&gt;
That is such a good point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>being an underage male and asking for condoms doesn’t quite make a suitable comparison to an underage female making such a request to an adult.</em><br />
That is such a good point.</p>
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