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	<title>Comments on: Two Duke Lacrosse Players Arrested</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:47:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: CW</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-42153</link>
		<dc:creator>CW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-42153</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If these women were afraid for their safety, as they say they were, you think they would have stuck together, or, at least, that the second woman would have had some degree of awareness of what was going on.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Given the nature of the profession, they are around rowdy types a lot it would seem. There is money to be made and they wouldn’t want to anger their company. Plus, the second stripper was new to this and basically following the alleged victim’s lead; there were many men in that small house, that sort of environment could make it harder than it seems to “be aware” of what is going on with the other woman at every turn. 


&lt;blockquote&gt;I would be interested in hearing what she has to say about the timeline the media has constructed from the defense’s photos, and whether she disputes that,&lt;/blockquote&gt;


The &lt;em&gt;defense&lt;/em&gt; can’t even decide what their photos show. First, they showed the alleged victim arriving battered and staggering. People questioned how, if that were true, she would have been able to dance. Then people viewed said photos and either said nothing about bruises and the like, or mentioned the alleged victim was laying flat on her back on the porch, with a cut on her ankle. The second dancer said she hadn’t noticed any bruises when they arrived and that, in fact, the woman was quite fine. So, oops, the defense changed it, “she acquired the bruises from falling on the back porch” (which apparently only shows a cut ankle or something).

Then of course you have the finger-nails: she is shown doing her nails as she comes up the steps, which explains why they are laying on the floor in the bathroom. Of course anybody who wears fake nails will understand how that makes no sense. So then they say a photo shows nails missing (since, you know, now they understand it doesn’t make sense to paint your real nails and then put on fake ones. Or to put on fake ones with that superglue and then rip them off in a bathroom) while she is dancing.

&lt;blockquote&gt;This woman’s substantial interest in currying Nifong’s favor by telling him what he wants to hear also can’t be ignored. I can’t see her doing very much to buttress or corroborate the accuser’s reconstruction of the events of that night.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, that’s really the thing, isn’t it? She hasn’t said anything incriminating, she has only changed her opinion on what may have gone on because of the spin and media-whoring the defense is doing. Her comments about the broom and racist slurs have corroborated the alleged victim’s, and that is it. If she were so intent on “currying Nifong’s favor”, she would have introduced something incriminating. She hasn’t. As she said, “I don’t want anybody innocent to go to jail” and “if somebody didn’t do it, they should relax and brush off their shoulders”. That attitude isn’t reflected by the defense, who by this time would have typically gone to the DA, shown that “hard evidence”, gotten a dismissal and/or a speedy trial. Or if they tried, would have whored it to the media like they have everything else. If the defense cares so much about “these boys”, they would have done more to get the indictment dismissed on the man they say an air-tight alibi exists for or tried and let us know it didn’t work.


 &lt;blockquote&gt;and also, whether she was outside the house at 12:15-12:20, when the cab driver pulled up, and what she was doing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You mean the cab-driver who pulled up and heard a male voice shout, “she’s only a stripper!”? Gee, I wonder what the DA is doing for him?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If these women were afraid for their safety, as they say they were, you think they would have stuck together, or, at least, that the second woman would have had some degree of awareness of what was going on.</p></blockquote>
<p>Given the nature of the profession, they are around rowdy types a lot it would seem. There is money to be made and they wouldn’t want to anger their company. Plus, the second stripper was new to this and basically following the alleged victim’s lead; there were many men in that small house, that sort of environment could make it harder than it seems to “be aware” of what is going on with the other woman at every turn. </p>
<blockquote><p>I would be interested in hearing what she has to say about the timeline the media has constructed from the defense’s photos, and whether she disputes that,</p></blockquote>
<p>The <em>defense</em> can’t even decide what their photos show. First, they showed the alleged victim arriving battered and staggering. People questioned how, if that were true, she would have been able to dance. Then people viewed said photos and either said nothing about bruises and the like, or mentioned the alleged victim was laying flat on her back on the porch, with a cut on her ankle. The second dancer said she hadn’t noticed any bruises when they arrived and that, in fact, the woman was quite fine. So, oops, the defense changed it, “she acquired the bruises from falling on the back porch” (which apparently only shows a cut ankle or something).</p>
<p>Then of course you have the finger-nails: she is shown doing her nails as she comes up the steps, which explains why they are laying on the floor in the bathroom. Of course anybody who wears fake nails will understand how that makes no sense. So then they say a photo shows nails missing (since, you know, now they understand it doesn’t make sense to paint your real nails and then put on fake ones. Or to put on fake ones with that superglue and then rip them off in a bathroom) while she is dancing.</p>
<blockquote><p>This woman’s substantial interest in currying Nifong’s favor by telling him what he wants to hear also can’t be ignored. I can’t see her doing very much to buttress or corroborate the accuser’s reconstruction of the events of that night.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, that’s really the thing, isn’t it? She hasn’t said anything incriminating, she has only changed her opinion on what may have gone on because of the spin and media-whoring the defense is doing. Her comments about the broom and racist slurs have corroborated the alleged victim’s, and that is it. If she were so intent on “currying Nifong’s favor”, she would have introduced something incriminating. She hasn’t. As she said, “I don’t want anybody innocent to go to jail” and “if somebody didn’t do it, they should relax and brush off their shoulders”. That attitude isn’t reflected by the defense, who by this time would have typically gone to the DA, shown that “hard evidence”, gotten a dismissal and/or a speedy trial. Or if they tried, would have whored it to the media like they have everything else. If the defense cares so much about “these boys”, they would have done more to get the indictment dismissed on the man they say an air-tight alibi exists for or tried and let us know it didn’t work.</p>
<blockquote><p>and also, whether she was outside the house at 12:15-12:20, when the cab driver pulled up, and what she was doing.</p></blockquote>
<p>You mean the cab-driver who pulled up and heard a male voice shout, “she’s only a stripper!”? Gee, I wonder what the DA is doing for him?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel@NYU</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-42058</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel@NYU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-42058</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Woot. It’s a twofer deal then. Two lying women for the price of on worthless whore.

/sarcasm 

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m more inclined to disbelieve the women than the evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Woot. It’s a twofer deal then. Two lying women for the price of on worthless whore.</p>
<p>/sarcasm </p>
</blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m more inclined to disbelieve the women than the evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Q Grrl</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41933</link>
		<dc:creator>Q Grrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 21:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41933</guid>
		<description>Woot.  It&#039;s a twofer deal then.  Two lying women for the price of on worthless whore.

/sarcasm

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woot.  It&#8217;s a twofer deal then.  Two lying women for the price of on worthless whore.</p>
<p>/sarcasm</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel@NYU</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41924</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel@NYU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 21:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41924</guid>
		<description>Roberts&#039;s concern with not wanting to leave the accuser with the lacrosse team doesn&#039;t seem to be consistent with the fact that she had no idea what was happening to the accuser during the 20 or 30 minutes she was allegedly being raped in that bathroom.

If these women were afraid for their safety, as they say they were, you think they would have stuck together, or, at least, that the second woman would have had some degree of awareness of what was going on. 

This woman&#039;s substantial interest in currying Nifong&#039;s favor by telling him what he wants to hear also can&#039;t be ignored. I can&#039;t see her doing very much to buttress or corroborate the accuser&#039;s reconstruction of the events of that night.

I would be interested in hearing what she has to say about the timeline the media has constructed from the defense&#039;s photos, and whether she disputes that, and also, whether she was outside the house at 12:15-12:20, when the cab driver pulled up, and what she was doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roberts&#8217;s concern with not wanting to leave the accuser with the lacrosse team doesn&#8217;t seem to be consistent with the fact that she had no idea what was happening to the accuser during the 20 or 30 minutes she was allegedly being raped in that bathroom.</p>
<p>If these women were afraid for their safety, as they say they were, you think they would have stuck together, or, at least, that the second woman would have had some degree of awareness of what was going on. </p>
<p>This woman&#8217;s substantial interest in currying Nifong&#8217;s favor by telling him what he wants to hear also can&#8217;t be ignored. I can&#8217;t see her doing very much to buttress or corroborate the accuser&#8217;s reconstruction of the events of that night.</p>
<p>I would be interested in hearing what she has to say about the timeline the media has constructed from the defense&#8217;s photos, and whether she disputes that, and also, whether she was outside the house at 12:15-12:20, when the cab driver pulled up, and what she was doing.</p>
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		<title>By: raging red</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41786</link>
		<dc:creator>raging red</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41786</guid>
		<description>God.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wral.com/news/8878198/detail.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;And this:&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Roberts drove herself to the party and said she could have left anytime, but she said, &quot;I didn&#039;t want to leave her with them.&quot;

Roberts then drove the accuser -- whom she had just met that night -- to a grocery store and asked a security guard to call 911. The accuser was described later by a police officer as &quot;just passed-out drunk.&quot;

&lt;strong&gt;Roberts said the woman was sober when they arrived at the house. But by the time the party was over, she said the accuser was too incoherent to tell her where she lived, let alone that she had been raped.&lt;/strong&gt;

&quot;I didn&#039;t do enough,&quot; she said, tears welling in her eyes. &quot;I didn&#039;t do enough. I didn&#039;t do enough.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God.  <a href="http://www.wral.com/news/8878198/detail.html" rel="nofollow">And this:</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Roberts drove herself to the party and said she could have left anytime, but she said, &#8220;I didn&#8217;t want to leave her with them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Roberts then drove the accuser &#8212; whom she had just met that night &#8212; to a grocery store and asked a security guard to call 911. The accuser was described later by a police officer as &#8220;just passed-out drunk.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>Roberts said the woman was sober when they arrived at the house. But by the time the party was over, she said the accuser was too incoherent to tell her where she lived, let alone that she had been raped.</strong></p>
<p>&#8220;I didn&#8217;t do enough,&#8221; she said, tears welling in her eyes. &#8220;I didn&#8217;t do enough. I didn&#8217;t do enough.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Q Grrl</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41770</link>
		<dc:creator>Q Grrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41770</guid>
		<description>This from local coverage today (WRAL.com)

&lt;blockquote&gt;Other than lacrosse players and the accuser, a 27-year-old student at a nearby university, Roberts is believed to be the only other person at the March 13 party.

Roberts said Thursday she does not remember Seligmann&#039;s face, but said she recalls seeing Finnerty -- whom she described as the &quot;little skinny one.&quot;

&quot;I was looking him right in the eyes,&quot; she said.

Although she would not talk extensively about the party, she confirmed some of what the other dancer told police -- including that the women initially left the party after one of the players threatened to sodomize the women with a broomstick.

The players&#039; attorneys have said their clients were angry and demanded a refund when the women stopped dancing, but Roberts disputed that.

&quot;They ripped themselves off when they started hollering about a broomstick,&quot; she said.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


Holy.Shit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This from local coverage today (WRAL.com)</p>
<blockquote><p>Other than lacrosse players and the accuser, a 27-year-old student at a nearby university, Roberts is believed to be the only other person at the March 13 party.</p>
<p>Roberts said Thursday she does not remember Seligmann&#8217;s face, but said she recalls seeing Finnerty &#8212; whom she described as the &#8220;little skinny one.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I was looking him right in the eyes,&#8221; she said.</p>
<p>Although she would not talk extensively about the party, she confirmed some of what the other dancer told police &#8212; including that the women initially left the party after one of the players threatened to sodomize the women with a broomstick.</p>
<p>The players&#8217; attorneys have said their clients were angry and demanded a refund when the women stopped dancing, but Roberts disputed that.</p>
<p>&#8220;They ripped themselves off when they started hollering about a broomstick,&#8221; she said.</p></blockquote>
<p>Holy.Shit.</p>
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		<title>By: Nobody</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41694</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 03:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41694</guid>
		<description>If there was any doubt, Hubris explained exactly what I meant. Looking at my post, the second paragraph would seem to make it impossible to infer that I really meant to accuse forty some odd percent of rape victims of lying about it, but maybe that&#039;s why disclaimers get put at the top, instead of the bottom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there was any doubt, Hubris explained exactly what I meant. Looking at my post, the second paragraph would seem to make it impossible to infer that I really meant to accuse forty some odd percent of rape victims of lying about it, but maybe that&#8217;s why disclaimers get put at the top, instead of the bottom.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41603</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 20:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41603</guid>
		<description>I  was on the ed board of the law review at Michigan and the way it worked was that everyone with a certain writing/grade composite would make it, people who did really well on the writing bit would make it regardless of their grades, and then the class would be assessed for diversity, and additional candidates might make it on that basis.  My year I don&#039;t think we had to do the diversity step, but you should have seen the meeting where the policy was approved.  we wasted 3 hours arguing only to approve the same policy that had been used the past five years.  Fortunately this was right after Grutter came down so we didn&#039;t have to worry that we were violating the Constitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I  was on the ed board of the law review at Michigan and the way it worked was that everyone with a certain writing/grade composite would make it, people who did really well on the writing bit would make it regardless of their grades, and then the class would be assessed for diversity, and additional candidates might make it on that basis.  My year I don&#8217;t think we had to do the diversity step, but you should have seen the meeting where the policy was approved.  we wasted 3 hours arguing only to approve the same policy that had been used the past five years.  Fortunately this was right after Grutter came down so we didn&#8217;t have to worry that we were violating the Constitution.</p>
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		<title>By: bmc90</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41580</link>
		<dc:creator>bmc90</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41580</guid>
		<description>I went to a second tier law school with all blind grading and no &quot;bonus points&quot; for women or minorities as far as moot court, law review and the other journals.  HOWEVER, admissions requirements were waived for a certain percentage of minorities. I taught in the summer program to help bring these students up to where the other admits were in terms of writing skills. After admission, however, everyone was on their own.  Because there were so many minorities competing against people with higher grades and LSATS, in my class there were no minorities on law review; however, there were on moot court.  Anyway, there are very few law schools with any kind of &quot;set asides&quot; except for admission, and I can&#039;t even think of one that gives women any kind of edge at all.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to a second tier law school with all blind grading and no &#8220;bonus points&#8221; for women or minorities as far as moot court, law review and the other journals.  HOWEVER, admissions requirements were waived for a certain percentage of minorities. I taught in the summer program to help bring these students up to where the other admits were in terms of writing skills. After admission, however, everyone was on their own.  Because there were so many minorities competing against people with higher grades and LSATS, in my class there were no minorities on law review; however, there were on moot court.  Anyway, there are very few law schools with any kind of &#8220;set asides&#8221; except for admission, and I can&#8217;t even think of one that gives women any kind of edge at all.</p>
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		<title>By: piny</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41574</link>
		<dc:creator>piny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/04/18/two-duke-lacrosse-players-arrested/#comment-41574</guid>
		<description>Tza, if Jill ever rapes anyone, we can analyze the privilege that gave her the idea that she had the right to perpetrate brutal sexual violence against another person.  Since, &lt;em&gt;AFAIK&lt;/em&gt;, she hasn&#039;t done anything of the kind, your points about her status aren&#039;t really relevant.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tza, if Jill ever rapes anyone, we can analyze the privilege that gave her the idea that she had the right to perpetrate brutal sexual violence against another person.  Since, <em>AFAIK</em>, she hasn&#8217;t done anything of the kind, your points about her status aren&#8217;t really relevant.</p>
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