That’s my understanding of the situation, though.

Tony, this isn’t about abortion. So don’t bring it up again.

prostitution in practice often has parallels to slavery. that’s why.

it is not an accepted fact that a fetus is a person. this thread is not about abortion. abortion is a separate issue from whether whether adults should be free of harassment for their consensual sexual behavior. there is such a thing as contraception, which breaks the link between sex and child-bearing.

the acquisition of one or more sexually transmitted diseases and bonding with someone who is a miserable excuse for a human being, I guess nothing

wow, so you’ve been privy to the sexual experiences of everyone here? otherwise, i don’t know how you can claim to have such specific knowledge about our experiences including what we and our partners felt.

condoms prevent STDs, btw. adults can rationally make the choice to use them. do you have a problem with them making that choice for themselves? do you think your judgement or some other person’s judgment should be substituted for theirs?

Besides producing children that have to be killed to protect your lifestyle, the acquisition of one or more sexually transmitted diseases and bonding with someone who is a miserable excuse for a human being, I guess nothing,

What’s your problem with commercial sex anyway. Most of the most “enlightened” European countries support it.

I think any sexual ethic that includes getting the vapors about androgyny has jumped the shark as far as qualifying as a liberal sexual ethic.

and on a feminist blog, no less.

I’ve got to ask – Fitz, what’re you doing here, exactly? Why do you self-identify as “liberal”, that is? The arguments you’re making are classic conservative arguments. Common social ethic, historical Golden Age, will of the majority trumping the (deviant) minority, the family as the primary social unit rather than the individual, weight of tradition, One Right Way To Live … all fair enough, from a conservative perspective, but why are you arguing that liberals themselves should be making these arguments? Why, basically, are you claiming that liberals should defend the conservative thesis, instead of defending it outright yourself?

I think any sexual ethic that includes getting the vapors about androgyny has jumped the shark as far as qualifying as a liberal sexual ethic.

Well, assuming that there’s no morality involved just demonstrates the problem of arguing morality or using the language of morality — whose morality are we going to use? The default in politics seems to be evangelical Christians, which necessarily excludes those who don’t share that moral point of view. The advantage of the liberal sexual ethic is that it acknowledges the differences in personal morality that people bring to their sexual relations and it also acknowledges that, absent harm, sexual relations are not a matter for state regulation

You could also talk about how inclusive Liberal ethics vs. Traditional ethics.

If you attempt to solve a problem of which ethics is superior to the other, the one that includes “all” would be the superior ethics.

The political realm which includes everyone in the US should not be exclusive of every other person. Exclusion is always inferior to anything all inclusive. Considering libral sexual ethics include the views of those of the Traditionalist, granting them all their requirements. It follows reason and logic to make sure that all groups involved are represented. Thin definitions all fit with in a larger view.

I find it hard to argue about the subject. Are we a democracy or not? Do concervatives even see their distruction to the constitution?

Check this out, you want to know what democracy truely is? Watch This
It’s a 9 min mini film, but it’s something your government doesn’t want you to remember.

The more you restrict the less it is a democracy, whether that be sex, politics, laws, jobs, schools. The laws need to protect, but they should not assume to invade any individual’ life.

I don’t want the governement in my bedroom. *shiver*

Just my 2cents

i am confused about your position. i don’t understand exactly what you’re getting at. are you asking us to elaborate on which kinds of relationships and sexual behavior should be legal and/or given the status now accorded to heterosexual marriage?