<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: This Has To Be One of The Saddest Things I&#8217;ve Read Lately</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:14:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	
	<item>
		<title>By: C. Diane</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44942</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Diane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 02:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44942</guid>
		<description>I heard on OPB on the way home from work today that Jared will not be serving in the military and there&#039;s going to be an investigation into how he got recruited in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard on OPB on the way home from work today that Jared will not be serving in the military and there&#8217;s going to be an investigation into how he got recruited in the first place.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: piny</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44850</link>
		<dc:creator>piny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 19:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44850</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You know, there has been some speculation by my son’s various specialists (he is HFA) that his father may also have been HFA. And his father retired from military service after 20 years in the Submarine Force. One told me that “the submarine force didn’t find him, he found the submarine force”. My ex-husband most was very comfortable in the highly ordered subculture of this elite force, which had a straight-forward pecking order and standardized expectations. He worked as an electronics technician and eventually earned his MS in Info Systems–the technical side of his brain was highly valued in this capacity. Drilling made even emergencies almost rote. He has never been tested, so this is just anecdotal but makes sense to me.

So I can definitely see a niche for HFA’s in the military. I think there are many already serving.

But there has to be some accountability in the recruiting procedures. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Absolutely.  And, of course, an enlightened individualized approach to training, placing, and interacting with HFA recruits.  I doubt very much that the Army has any plans to get on that, though.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You know, there has been some speculation by my son’s various specialists (he is HFA) that his father may also have been HFA. And his father retired from military service after 20 years in the Submarine Force. One told me that “the submarine force didn’t find him, he found the submarine force”. My ex-husband most was very comfortable in the highly ordered subculture of this elite force, which had a straight-forward pecking order and standardized expectations. He worked as an electronics technician and eventually earned his MS in Info Systems–the technical side of his brain was highly valued in this capacity. Drilling made even emergencies almost rote. He has never been tested, so this is just anecdotal but makes sense to me.</p>
<p>So I can definitely see a niche for HFA’s in the military. I think there are many already serving.</p>
<p>But there has to be some accountability in the recruiting procedures. </p></blockquote>
<p>Absolutely.  And, of course, an enlightened individualized approach to training, placing, and interacting with HFA recruits.  I doubt very much that the Army has any plans to get on that, though.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44842</link>
		<dc:creator>Kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 19:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44842</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;My son’s high-functioning autistic, and I could see him in the military as an aerial or maritime navigator, a comms specialist, a missile technician in the navy - all sorts of positions where his technical affinities could be put to good use and it would take less time to train a HFA like him than it would take to train a neurotypical recruit lacking the natural geekitude.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
You know, there has been some speculation by my son&#039;s various specialists (he is HFA) that his father may also have been HFA. And his father retired from military service after 20 years in the Submarine Force. One told me that &quot;the submarine force didn&#039;t find him, he found the submarine force&quot;. My ex-husband most was very comfortable in the highly ordered subculture of this elite force, which had a straight-forward pecking order and standardized expectations. He worked as an electronics technician and eventually earned his MS in Info Systems--the technical side of his brain was highly valued in this capacity. Drilling made even emergencies almost rote. He has never been tested, so this is just anecdotal but makes sense to me.

So I can definitely see a niche for HFA&#039;s in the military. I think there are many already serving.

But there has to be some accountability in the recruiting procedures. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t think the recruiter cared; the only important thing was to get the kid in. The Army is in such a recruting bind that they will probably find something for him to do&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is exactly the danger. Not only for my autistic kid, but for any kid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My son’s high-functioning autistic, and I could see him in the military as an aerial or maritime navigator, a comms specialist, a missile technician in the navy &#8211; all sorts of positions where his technical affinities could be put to good use and it would take less time to train a HFA like him than it would take to train a neurotypical recruit lacking the natural geekitude.
</p></blockquote>
<p>You know, there has been some speculation by my son&#8217;s various specialists (he is HFA) that his father may also have been HFA. And his father retired from military service after 20 years in the Submarine Force. One told me that &#8220;the submarine force didn&#8217;t find him, he found the submarine force&#8221;. My ex-husband most was very comfortable in the highly ordered subculture of this elite force, which had a straight-forward pecking order and standardized expectations. He worked as an electronics technician and eventually earned his MS in Info Systems&#8211;the technical side of his brain was highly valued in this capacity. Drilling made even emergencies almost rote. He has never been tested, so this is just anecdotal but makes sense to me.</p>
<p>So I can definitely see a niche for HFA&#8217;s in the military. I think there are many already serving.</p>
<p>But there has to be some accountability in the recruiting procedures. </p>
<blockquote><p>I don’t think the recruiter cared; the only important thing was to get the kid in. The Army is in such a recruting bind that they will probably find something for him to do</p></blockquote>
<p>This is exactly the danger. Not only for my autistic kid, but for any kid.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44832</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 18:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44832</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Besides, the methods used to drill training into a recruit just seem to fly in the face of Autism. My son has issues with personal space. I cannot imagine what kind of meltdown he’d have the first time a drill sergeant screamed in his face (and they do this). And things move quick at boot camp. I can’t imagine how they would react to his meltdown. I doubt they’d have time to pull out their accommodation page to make sure they used appropriate ABA techniques with him.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Exactly Kat. My sister has many of the same issues and she would have a melt down if someone was screaming in her face like that. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Besides, the methods used to drill training into a recruit just seem to fly in the face of Autism. My son has issues with personal space. I cannot imagine what kind of meltdown he’d have the first time a drill sergeant screamed in his face (and they do this). And things move quick at boot camp. I can’t imagine how they would react to his meltdown. I doubt they’d have time to pull out their accommodation page to make sure they used appropriate ABA techniques with him.</p></blockquote>
<p>Exactly Kat. My sister has many of the same issues and she would have a melt down if someone was screaming in her face like that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ron Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44810</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 15:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44810</guid>
		<description>Nobody, the recruit&#039;s mother in the story showed the recruiter evidence that he&#039;s violated military policy; she didn&#039;t just insist he not recruit her son. Given that, it doesn&#039;t matter what her motives were or what he thought they were. It&#039;s not about her; heck, it&#039;s not even about the son. 

You&#039;d think that the word &quot;autism&quot; would raise big red flags for a conscientious recruiter, who would then go on to investigate further. But it looks as though people doing the recruiting are not only under unreasonable pressure to get the numbers in, but they&#039;re also conveniently underinformed. I feel for the recruiters in this story, and the others, but they screwed up. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody, the recruit&#8217;s mother in the story showed the recruiter evidence that he&#8217;s violated military policy; she didn&#8217;t just insist he not recruit her son. Given that, it doesn&#8217;t matter what her motives were or what he thought they were. It&#8217;s not about her; heck, it&#8217;s not even about the son. </p>
<p>You&#8217;d think that the word &#8220;autism&#8221; would raise big red flags for a conscientious recruiter, who would then go on to investigate further. But it looks as though people doing the recruiting are not only under unreasonable pressure to get the numbers in, but they&#8217;re also conveniently underinformed. I feel for the recruiters in this story, and the others, but they screwed up.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blitzgal</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44793</link>
		<dc:creator>Blitzgal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 11:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44793</guid>
		<description>I also think there is a larger issue being presented in this article.  I don&#039;t believe they are definitively taking the stance that Jared should not be in the military at all because of his disability.  The article brings up several other examples of extreme maleficence on the part of military recruiters across the country.  And yes, I do believe the activities are evil.  The man who taught a young recruit how to beat a drug test and mock up a fake high school diploma because he&#039;d gotten kicked out of school, for example.  Or the one who threatened an enlistee who was getting cold feet by claiming he&#039;d be arrested if he didn&#039;t follow through with the process.  

One of the most basic responsibilities of our military is to provide a standard level of care to its soldiers.  Putting mentally disabled people on the front lines isn&#039;t fair to them or to the other soldiers who depend on them for their very survival.  This isn&#039;t an attempt to say that disabled people are &quot;sub-human,&quot; so don&#039;t even go there.  As others have said above, there are likely many jobs that Jared can perform, and it doesn&#039;t necessarily have to mean menial labor--although coming from a blue collar family I have to point out that there is no shame in a hard day&#039;s work, no matter what the task.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also think there is a larger issue being presented in this article.  I don&#8217;t believe they are definitively taking the stance that Jared should not be in the military at all because of his disability.  The article brings up several other examples of extreme maleficence on the part of military recruiters across the country.  And yes, I do believe the activities are evil.  The man who taught a young recruit how to beat a drug test and mock up a fake high school diploma because he&#8217;d gotten kicked out of school, for example.  Or the one who threatened an enlistee who was getting cold feet by claiming he&#8217;d be arrested if he didn&#8217;t follow through with the process.  </p>
<p>One of the most basic responsibilities of our military is to provide a standard level of care to its soldiers.  Putting mentally disabled people on the front lines isn&#8217;t fair to them or to the other soldiers who depend on them for their very survival.  This isn&#8217;t an attempt to say that disabled people are &#8220;sub-human,&#8221; so don&#8217;t even go there.  As others have said above, there are likely many jobs that Jared can perform, and it doesn&#8217;t necessarily have to mean menial labor&#8211;although coming from a blue collar family I have to point out that there is no shame in a hard day&#8217;s work, no matter what the task.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nobody</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44788</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 07:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44788</guid>
		<description>It occurs to me that while I disowned the tone of my prior post, I didn&#039;t apologize for it, as I ought to. I&#039;m sorry. That this piece hit a nerve is my problem; I should have calmed down before commenting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It occurs to me that while I disowned the tone of my prior post, I didn&#8217;t apologize for it, as I ought to. I&#8217;m sorry. That this piece hit a nerve is my problem; I should have calmed down before commenting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nobody</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44787</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 07:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44787</guid>
		<description>The recruiter couldn&#039;t know the mother&#039;s motivation for insisting that he not recruit her son. The recruiter couldn&#039;t know how severe the young man&#039;s autism was. The degrees are difficult (I&#039;m hedging because I don&#039;t want to cause any more trouble than I have) for doctors to discern, much less a military recruiter with, presumably, no medical training. Should recruiters have to go through med. school before taking the job?

If the man couldn&#039;t make the grade at boot camp, he&#039;d have bounced out. If he couldn&#039;t make it beyond that, he&#039;d have been bounced out. The danger that an inherently incompetent man or woman (for whatever reason) would be put in a job he or she can&#039;t do, in the military is relatively very low.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Where, exactly, are you getting the idea that disabled people aren’t “real people”? Please, provide links and (full) quotes. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Because among the liberties granted to each of us by G-d (or whomever) are the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. There are two parties, and two only, who have any say in whether a person enlists in the Army. The person himself, and the Army. Robbing him of his choice (without regard to what choice the Army would have made) is robbing him of a part of his humanity. It offends me.

I should say that I overstepped in that comment--clearly I don&#039;t need to defend disabled people from the people on this board, and I don&#039;t need to play holier than thou. I was just angry at what I took to be the imposing, on this young man&#039;s choice, anger at the war, that is not his fault. Absent this war, the quoted story never gets written. It&#039;s convenient to argue that he wouldn&#039;t have been recruited, but for the war, but there&#039;s no evidence of that. A good friend of mine joined the Marines after high school, despite personal challenges that, while not autism, could be considered in the same league as some of the less severe degrees of autism. That was ten years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The recruiter couldn&#8217;t know the mother&#8217;s motivation for insisting that he not recruit her son. The recruiter couldn&#8217;t know how severe the young man&#8217;s autism was. The degrees are difficult (I&#8217;m hedging because I don&#8217;t want to cause any more trouble than I have) for doctors to discern, much less a military recruiter with, presumably, no medical training. Should recruiters have to go through med. school before taking the job?</p>
<p>If the man couldn&#8217;t make the grade at boot camp, he&#8217;d have bounced out. If he couldn&#8217;t make it beyond that, he&#8217;d have been bounced out. The danger that an inherently incompetent man or woman (for whatever reason) would be put in a job he or she can&#8217;t do, in the military is relatively very low.</p>
<blockquote><p>Where, exactly, are you getting the idea that disabled people aren’t “real people”? Please, provide links and (full) quotes. </p></blockquote>
<p>Because among the liberties granted to each of us by G-d (or whomever) are the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. There are two parties, and two only, who have any say in whether a person enlists in the Army. The person himself, and the Army. Robbing him of his choice (without regard to what choice the Army would have made) is robbing him of a part of his humanity. It offends me.</p>
<p>I should say that I overstepped in that comment&#8211;clearly I don&#8217;t need to defend disabled people from the people on this board, and I don&#8217;t need to play holier than thou. I was just angry at what I took to be the imposing, on this young man&#8217;s choice, anger at the war, that is not his fault. Absent this war, the quoted story never gets written. It&#8217;s convenient to argue that he wouldn&#8217;t have been recruited, but for the war, but there&#8217;s no evidence of that. A good friend of mine joined the Marines after high school, despite personal challenges that, while not autism, could be considered in the same league as some of the less severe degrees of autism. That was ten years ago.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44784</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 07:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44784</guid>
		<description>My son&#039;s high-functioning autistic, and I could see him in the military as an aerial or maritime navigator, a comms specialist, a missile technician in the navy - all sorts of positions where his technical affinities could be put to good use and it would take less time to train a HFA like him than it would take to train a neurotypical recruit lacking the natural geekitude.  I simply cannot imagine him in field combat - his communication difficulties and sensory hypersensitivities would overwhelm him, guaranteeing his rapid demise probably taking platoonmates with him.

The problem appears to lie mostly with the inexperience and lack of nous of the recruiting corporal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My son&#8217;s high-functioning autistic, and I could see him in the military as an aerial or maritime navigator, a comms specialist, a missile technician in the navy &#8211; all sorts of positions where his technical affinities could be put to good use and it would take less time to train a HFA like him than it would take to train a neurotypical recruit lacking the natural geekitude.  I simply cannot imagine him in field combat &#8211; his communication difficulties and sensory hypersensitivities would overwhelm him, guaranteeing his rapid demise probably taking platoonmates with him.</p>
<p>The problem appears to lie mostly with the inexperience and lack of nous of the recruiting corporal.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ginmar</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44780</link>
		<dc:creator>ginmar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 05:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/05/08/this-has-to-be-one-of-the-saddest-things-ive-read-lately/#comment-44780</guid>
		<description>Hell, can he even handle basic?   I&#039;ll tell you what&#039;s going on: people are coming back injured from Iraq, and they&#039;re boarding them out rather than spend the money needed to &#039;fix&#039; them.  Too much trouble.  I&#039;ve seen senior NCOs with twenty years&#039; experience get boarded out because an injured soldier made the stats look bad.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hell, can he even handle basic?   I&#8217;ll tell you what&#8217;s going on: people are coming back injured from Iraq, and they&#8217;re boarding them out rather than spend the money needed to &#8216;fix&#8217; them.  Too much trouble.  I&#8217;ve seen senior NCOs with twenty years&#8217; experience get boarded out because an injured soldier made the stats look bad.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic
Page Caching using disk: basic
Database Caching 16/21 queries in 0.035 seconds using disk: basic

Served from: www.feministe.us @ 2012-02-10 08:49:36 -->
