Lauren directed me to a post from Terrence at Republic of T about a Christian adoption agency that won’t accept Catholic parents. This is actually from last year, but it points to an issue that should be glaring to the Catholics who are cozying up to evangelicals and fundies: they don’t think you’re Christians. They haven’t stopped calling you “Marians” and “Papists” and “Mackerel Snappers,” they’re just doing it behind your back because you’re useful to them now, in the fight to establish the Republic of Gilead, but if you’ve read your Atwood (or paid even scant attention to very recent history, or considered that Catholics are the single biggest Christian sect in this country but there has been exactly ONE Catholic President, and he had to bend over backwards to assure the country that Rome would not influence his policy), you know that Catholics will be going over the wall right after the Jews and the gays and the blacks.
Uh, people, have you forgotten why there’s a very extensive, very good Catholic university system in this country? Because Catholics, until only a few decades ago (something Sam Alito did not keep in mind when he joined Concerned Alumni of Princeton), were admitted into elite universities only on a quota system.
Perhaps you have. Or perhaps you’re just willfully blind to the “First they came for the Jews” phenomenon, and that explains why, less than a year after a “Christian” adoption agency was rejecting Catholic parents, bishops in Massachusetts are trying to prevent gay parents — lawfully married there, mind you — from adopting.
As Terrence said, what goes around comes around.
It’s amazing to me how Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale has gone from being dystopian fiction to nearly prophecy status in the last 15 years or so.
(… and a lot disturbing… )
Why can’t a private adoption agency set its own rules for who it will let adopt? This allows biological parents who annot care for their children to have some control over whom they go to. It’s not as if this Christian adoption agency is fighting to make it illegal for Catholics to adopt. It’s just that this agency for Protestants who want to make certain that their children grow up in Protestant homes.
Now you can decry the federal funding, I can see where you would do that. But something tells me that you would want to force antidiscrimination legislation on this agency even in the absence of state funding (as you do not bring up this point in your post).
Let’s be honest. Leftists only want separation of church and state to work in one direction. They have no problem with the state interfering in the church.
Glaivester:
They certainly can. Did you see anyone calling for a law in this post? Did you? Or are you being intellectually dishonest*?
Private adoption agencies can set their rules, sure. And we can call them bigoted, theocratic fucks.. Ain’t America grand?
*Ding ding ding.
Uh, people, have you forgotten why there’s a very extensive, very good Catholic university system in this country? Because Catholics, until only a few decades ago (something Sam Alito did not keep in mind when he joined Concerned Alumni of Princeton), were admitted into elite universities only on a quota system.
You’re kidding! Really? When did they stop letting them in on a quota system, and how unfair were the quotas?
P.S. Why do people act like affirmative action is NEW? Quotas have been around for a hell of a long time. BTW, that could explain why a friend of mine’s grandfather changed their obviously European Jewish family name to Morgan. He was a doctor, if I recall. Maybe he couldn’t get into med school because of quotas on certain religions, and figured the admissions committee wouldn’t have a quota system for Welsh-Americans.
Nothing to add, but yay, Catholic universities! This-here Jewish dyke is transferring to one. Why? Because Catholic universities know a thing or two about oppression. Well, so I say.
Glaivester:
It’s just that this agency for Protestants who want to make certain that their children grow up in Protestant homes.
Is it?
Bethany Christian Services describes itself as a Christian adoption agency, not a Protestant one. Catholics are certainly Christian, no matter how much some Protestants would like to try to pretend otherwise. As far as I can tell, there is nothing in Bethany’s mission statement that indicates that they are sectarian. In fact, several Catholic service groups are listed on Bethany’s various state resource pages. Hmmm.
I’m not sure why this would be the best way to give biological parents control over the process. For one thing, what if they want to control aspects other than religion? Luckily, adoption agencies have come up with much better ways of giving birth parents control, such as allowing them to read files and meet with prospective parents and then choose the parents they prefer. We’ve moved way beyond the model where the only choice that the birth parents get to make is choosing the agency that will choose their babies’ parents for them.
I’m going away for a couple of days, folks. See you on Monday!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
1. Communists
2. Social Democrats
3. Trade Unionists
4. Jews
5. Me
I think we can definitely say the US is done with number one (thanks Sen. McCarthy!) and may or may not be working on number 3. Though I think I count my own me in number 2.
You know, being raised catholic, I never knew we were ever discriminated against. All the CCD classes and official church teachings never mentioned anything, and I only learned about it in my late teens from reading independent stuff.
Even though I have a surname that’s obviously from a European country that is predominantly roman-catholic, I can’t say I’ve ever been obviously discriminated over that either.
I have, however, clearly been (reverse) discriminated against in the past because I was not-female, not-disabled, not-over fifty,or not of a minority race. I have to tell you, that totally sucks.
I have the world’s smallest violin here, and it’s playing just for you.
Standard Mischief:
Even though I have a surname that’s obviously from a European country that is predominantly roman-catholic, I can’t say I’ve ever been obviously discriminated over that either.
I have. Thankfully, it’s been more of the pig-ignorant-but-ultimately-harmless variety.
Related: I cannot believe some of the things I’ve heard from the mouths of some non-Catholics. Funnily enough, even though I was raised Catholic, I learned a good bit about most Protestant faiths (Sr. Helen, our religion teacher, was pretty awesome). Alas, the reciprocal does not appear to hold true.
I have, however, clearly been (reverse) discriminated against in the past because I was not-female, not-disabled, not-over fifty,or not of a minority race. I have to tell you, that totally sucks.
I’m sorry, but that beggars belief.
We Protestants don’t need none of that thar book-larnin about you Papists. We know y’all keeled Jeezus and wership Satan.
(Troll repellant: i’m Protestant, i can say this)
Standard Mischielf never knew Catholics were discriminated against? In his whole life no one ever accused him of woshipping Mary? Or asked why he needed the Pope or the saints in order to pray and connect w/Jesus? B/c that was always that standard thing I’ve heard from Baptists, Church of Christ, etc.
Mackeral Slappers, hee – I’ve never heard that insult.
My sister once went to a Baptist service w/a friend and was asked to renounce Catholocism and told her she was going to hell otherwise.
On the flip side – the first time I heard any slurs against Jewish people was when I went to UD – small Catholic university. I was surprised how many classmates said they’d never known anyone who was Jewish. I’m from San Antonio which is largely Catholic – but in public school there was a big mix of religions.
Agree w/Sally about studying other faiths – at UD a lot of time was spent on the Protestant Reformation. Its fun to shock fundies who’ve never studied history and unaware that prior to that event most Christians were Catholics.
The Catholic-evangelical rapprochement has been amazing in recent years — at least on a high level. Billy Graham, James Dobson, Richard Land, Chuck Colson, Richard Mouw, and other big time evangelical Protestants have been in public dialogue with Catholics for a while. Look at the overwhelmingly enthusiastic response that Passion of the Christ got from evangelicals, even though it was made by a conservative Catholic and filled with images of Mary!
But there are still some Protestant outfits tenaciously clinging to the “Catholics aren’t Christians” lie, and they’ll take some rooting out.
JenM Says:
No, not my whole life, early teens. Reading about Queen Mary I of England and stuff like that. I got a clue when I learned what WASP stood for too.
I broke with the church years ago over birth control
But my God is a mighty God, and I have been touched by His Noodly Appendage.
Hugo, I think it’s a marriage of convenience. Right now, conservatism v. progressivism on sex and gender is the group of issues dividing religious denominations, as surely (and intractably) as slavery divided them in the 19th century. I think the rapproachment is simply an alliance between conservative evangelicals and conservative Catholics in a political and cultural war. I don’t know anything about Richard Mouw, but the other four Protestants you mention support that view.
That’s exactly the sort of crap I was referring to. I’m gobsmacked at the number of Protestants who have assumed that Catholics–like them–have a personal relationship with Jesus. Um, no. “Well, why not? What’s wrong with you?” Also, didja know taht Catholics worship saints? That Mary is revered above Christ? That Catholics are idolaters? I’ve also had some really, um, interesting discussions on original sin and confession.
The mind wobbles.
Er…most western Christians were Catholic prior to the Reformation, but most eastern Christians were Orthodox of one form or another.
Obviously neither here nor there since fundies wouldn’t really know that, either.
Standard Mischief: me too, and I thought I was the only one.
They barely even mentioned that other Christians existed.
Translation: I did not get the deference usually given white males at the expense of otherwise qualified brown folk and I am pissed.
They certainly can. Did you see anyone calling for a law in this post? Did you? Or are you being intellectually dishonest*?
Private adoption agencies can set their rules, sure. And we can call them bigoted, theocratic fucks.. Ain’t America grand?
Okay, that is reasonable. You’re right. No one called for a law in this post.
Zuzu, I really like your handling of Catholic/Feminist issues.