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14 Responses

  1. Em
    Em June 14, 2006 at 1:52 pm |

    Well, you can tell where I’m coming from right now, but I trust you realize I’m a progressive peon in a vast military-industrial complex. With too much free time. ;)

  2. Shankar Gupta
    Shankar Gupta June 14, 2006 at 2:05 pm |

    I’ve assumed that the talking points were coming from somewhere, LGF or Rush or somewhere, and the good little dittoheads, having received their marching orders, were spreading their wingnutty message far and wide.

    Do you really believe this? That the people who disagree with you have a centralized, one-stop shop for right-wing ideology? What nonsense.

    Turns out that they’re likely professionals:

    Likely professionals? Are you kidding me? You think that, if you take a post by a right-winger on a left-wing blog, that person is more often than not a paid shill? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

    Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go cash my Netvocates check.

  3. DBK
    DBK June 14, 2006 at 2:14 pm |

    With all due respect, Shankar, all you did was quibble about some minor, side issues and ignore the main thrust of the article. The existence of Netvocates is indisputable, as is their working method, because they say what it is on their web site. The same goes for Redon. So quibble about side issues that are of no importance if that’s what keeps your pecker hard, my friend, but the main point remains both curious and, to me, somewhat offensive. I expect the PR-uber-alles types to continue to deny Global Warming and so on for pay, but I resent them using a site I work very hard to maintain to do so. They are making a buck at my expense. They need to tell me what they are up to and then pay me for the privilege. I’ll gladly give them the space they want, at my discretion and under my control, for a buck. I’ll also likely refute anything with which I disagree and probably call them filthy names in the bargain, but that’s just the way it goes in the rough and tumble world of politics and public opinion. But they are getting a free ride now. I have spent nearly two years on blogging, for free, and built my measly audience by the sweat of my brow. Now they want to take advantage of all that work to make pronouncements to my audience that are made under false pretences, because they are not random conservatives announcing whatever talking points their addled little heads can retain from the time they spent kissing Hannity’s image on the TV. They are part of a business operation whose purpose is to spread propoganda. Fine. Let them pay me, stay off my web site, or say who and what they are so I can delete their miserable comments.

  4. piny
    piny June 14, 2006 at 2:19 pm |

    Do you really believe this? That the people who disagree with you have a centralized, one-stop shop for right-wing ideology? What nonsense.

    Now, this is trolling. That’s not what she said.

  5. June 14, 2006 at 2:31 pm |

    netvocates: IP addresses and screenshots

    Daily Kos has picked up on the posts (original post / follow-up) I recently made about Netvocates, sending a load of traffic my way and giving me an idea. I haven’t noticed any suspicious comments on, but some of

  6. Sydney
    Sydney June 14, 2006 at 2:57 pm |

    I’m not sure all those Army and State Dept queries are all that innocuous, actually. I’ve noticed that the number of hits I get from “unknown” IPs on my blog goes up when I talk about some conservative political issue. You can still see the IP, but the server name will be unknown. My Dad recognized those as military IP addresses. We looked some up, and lo and behold he was correct. Consider it a status symbol. My blog’s not nearly important (or interesting) enough to draw Rendon to it.

  7. ilyka
    ilyka June 14, 2006 at 3:30 pm |

    We already know that the White House sends out talking points via blast fax to Fox News and to certain pundits

    Yeah, and the DNC holds conference calls with certain lefty pundits. This goes both ways.

    I’m not disputing the existence of Netvocates, but I’d be surprised if that’s where your uptick’s coming from. As for this:

    Now, I’ve always known that the right wingers are way the hell more organized than the lefties. I’ve assumed that the talking points were coming from somewhere, LGF or Rush or somewhere, and the good little dittoheads, having received their marching orders, were spreading their wingnutty message far and wide.

    The right side of the blogosphere didn’t get formally organized until the launch of Pajamas Media, and it’s questionable how much unity that fostered, if any, since its formation quickly divided right-wing blogs into “for” and “against” camps.

    As for the “good little dittoheads,” I’d agree that most of their antifeminist, anti-choice arguments are monotonous. But troo believers aren’t exclusive to the right, as anyone who’s ever tried to make sense of an Atrios thread can attest. And I really, really, really don’t think they’re being sent out by anyone with “marching orders.” They swarm of their own free wills–their very obstinate, very one-note wills, maybe, but what are you gonna do.

  8. r@d@r
    r@d@r June 14, 2006 at 4:17 pm |

    troo believers aren’t exclusive to the right, as anyone who’s ever tried to make sense of an Atrios thread can attest.

    respectfully, anybody who ‘tries to make sense’ of an atrios thread is probably barking up the wrong tree. it’s like going to a barbecue looking for vegetarian food. :)

  9. CoRev
    CoRev June 14, 2006 at 5:09 pm |

    Military supporters have gotten organized in the past few months to counteract the anti-military or false-military propaganda. Highlighting Jesse MacBeth as a liar is the best example of their recent actions. Otherwise, I have not seen or heard of any organized efforts from the right side of the blogosphere. Silly season is starting so it will get FAR worse in a few months as we get closer to the elections. Both parties will be more Blog energized then ever before.

    From your descriptions of the subject matter, Netvocates and Rendon seem to be professional PR guys sensing and trying to influence for their commercial clients. The Fed Govt sites, especially the DOD guys, are probably Public Affairs guys doing sensing studies. DOD’s PA folks have been criticised as ineffective by the milbloggers, so they may just be trying to respond to this criticism. They need to collect intel to respond or counteract it.

    Now, if you think the Big Gov is spying on you, you’re absolutely correct, but you will never know.

  10. Mark
    Mark June 14, 2006 at 6:56 pm |

    My personal opinion? There maybe some professionals out there working… but I think there are just lone nuts out there that feel they have a solid, great comeback to some blog posts being repeated out there… thus they do searches for related posts (like when Cindy Sheehan broke, or any big topic that many are covering) and they post their “Teh Awesome” comeback on several blogs. Who would do such a thing? People who become trolls…

    That is what I think… that and they all think alike, so they end up sounding alike.

  11. Erika
    Erika June 14, 2006 at 11:18 pm |

    Is American Apparel really big enough to bother with this crap? I would understand it if it was Walmart, or even Miller. AA seems like relatively small potatoes to bother sending a bunch of paid shills to a feminist website.

  12. hedonistic
    hedonistic June 15, 2006 at 7:42 am |

    Believe it or not, a substantial number of folk who work for the Department of Defense are Democrats and even progressives (raises hand). I wouldn’t be surprised if this were the case with most government organizations.

    Still, the very existence of PR companies who do their work on the blogosphere should be enough for us to delete trolls rather than engage them. From what I’ve read, off in Freeperville, even thoughtful, reasoned questions from progressives get deleted, so we might as well delete our wingnuts.

    It’s times like these that I’m glad I avoid most politics, (exception: sexual politics). My blog is personal, so if the wingnuts are visiting me it’s only to be entertained.

  13. hedonistic
    hedonistic June 15, 2006 at 10:10 am |

    No sooner than I post the message above and I get some wingnut posting his sexual-politics talking points on my site!!!!!!! I say “his,” because although supposedly the author is a 23 year old woman, I cannot imagine a real woman would ever write what I just read. I could be wrong, but, meh.

    The weird thing is the post behaved like spam, which tells me it was probably a computerized troll. I received a double post telling me I had two trackbacks, and when I investigated I found a rant on that had nothing to do with my post (which was on astrology and relationships). Check it out:


    “Are you mad at how women walk on you? Are you mad at how they think they rule the world and run the show? Women think men owe them something. They think they can do anything and anyone and walk away. They get mad at your feelings of pain. It makes me sick to know women run their men into pain. They say when a man has feelings and stops a women from cheating women say men are to controlling. Why is it men are jerks when they cheat but when women do it they walk away. If a man says anything then he is a jerk for being a control freak. I hate how women think these days. When a women walks in the door yelling and screaming it’s ok but if a man does it women say he is abusive and thinks well I’ll get him. Poor men have to take women’s crap and it makes me sad to think we women think they can get away with anything. We think well he yelled so I’ll go sleep with his bestfriend. Women are sick people that need help. Now their are some good women left with great moral standards but not many. I think I need to move to china or Iran or something haha. I hate the fact that women don’t cook or clean like they used to. I hate the fact when the do they go to thier men and rag about it. Women hate it when men rag about money and work, well ditto men hate hearing how crappy her day was cooking a pie. I loose my mind sometimes knowing how some . . .”


    WOW. If people are taking such pains to influence public opinion on matters between the sexes, why is it such a stretch to believe some people are putting the same level of energy into pushing their political viewpoints? Develop and set loose some trollish computer program, and it’s not even that hard.

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