Yeah, I’m pretty well sick to the teeth of the demonization of New York and New Yorkers as loud, pushy, mouthy, rude, dirty, inconsiderate, uncivil, what have you. The corollary to that is the lionization of the “Heartland” as the seat of all that is good and decent in the country.
Well.
All you haters? Bite me.
IT IS the city where eye contact is considered an act of aggression and the most frequently used part of a car is the horn.
But New York is the most polite place in the world, according to a survey which ranked its famously brusque citizens well ahead of those in London in kindness and good manners.
The Big Apple scored 80 per cent in a series of tests, including dropping papers in a street in a busy area, seeing how long it took for someone to help, noting whether doors were held open and if shop assistants said thank you after making a sale.
I think this guy really captured the essence of it:
Native New Yorker Dan Norman, 36, from East Rockaway, said: “The thing to remember is that New Yorkers are not rude, they are brusque.
“People will listen to you, but you’ve got to cut to the chase.”
A guy I went to law school with described New Yorkers thus: “If you fall down on the sidewalk, they’ll help you up. They’ll laugh at you, and tell you you’re a fool, but they’ll help you up.” I know from experience that the tourists clogging Rockefeller Plaza won’t. Not even if you’re wearing a skirt suit.
And because I am courteous, if brusque, a big fuckin’ hat tip to Watertiger.
I’ve told this story before, probably on this very blog, but it seems apropos now.
I have since been back, but my first time in New York I had taken the train from DC for one night. I was just out of college and didn’t have a credit card at the time (and this was pre-debit card), so my dad agreed to reserve the hotel room and I would pay by cash. The room was about $200, if I remember right, and the train ticket was $80 (let’s say.) I withdrew $300 from the ATM and bought my train ticket and paid cash upfront for the hotel room upon arrival. With $20 in my pocket, I hopped in a taxi to The Broadway to buy my ticket for Les Mis, the main and nearly only reason for my visit. It was a $10 cab ride.
At the time I’d never spent $300 (in cash) in a day, which is why this came as a surprise to me but probably not to most of you…when I got to the ATM to get out another $100 for the ticket, I found I had reached my daily withdrawal limit.
I headed back to the hotel – my last $10 for the day – and prepared for a boring-ass night and a wasted $300 trip (yeah, I know, I could have kicked around the city on foot, but I wasn’t exactly thinking clearly) and I unloaded my troubles a little on the very nice young concierge. She felt so bad for me that based on ten minutes of acquaintance and the fact that she “knew where I was staying” she honest-to-god lent me $100 for a ticket to see Les Mis. (Her boyfriend brought the money over, so I was spared the ridiculousness of suggesting that she lend me another $100 so that I could buy her the seat next to mine).
I’ve visited NYC once or twice since then, and have never wavered from my stance that anyone who talks about the “rudeness of New Yorkers” will have to get by me.
I’m sorry, but I cannot resist commenting on this. American regionalism is really interesting to me, mostly because I don’t think it’s discussed very much (correct me if I’m wrong…or point me to some discussion) I think most people in the country are sick of the sweeping generalizations about people from their region. I’m from the Midwest and I’m pretty fed up with the generalization that Midwesterners are ignorant, backward, Bible beating Republican farmers. My husband, a New Yorker by birth, was surprised that there were, like cities! and tall buildings! New Yorkers are sick of being called pushy, etc. I’m sure people from Minnesota are tired of folks mocking their accents. Wherever you’re from, there’s always someone to disparage and stereotype your home town/state/region. What gives?
I don’t follow. The only city in the U.S. that the survey looked at was New York. So what does this have to do with Minneapolis, or any other city in the country?
I’m pretty fed up with the generalization that Midwesterners are ignorant, backward, Bible beating Republican farmers.
I don’t blame you. Interesting, though, that Republicans – especially at election time – work their asses off to perpetuate that very generalization under the alias of “simple, uncomplicated, Bible-believing Republican men of the soil.”
Eye contact is considered an act of aggression in NYC? Wow, maybe i shouldn’t move there after all…
Seriously though, my one experience in New York pretty much confirms the article. Almost everyone was incredibly courteous and all that, even though i was pretty clearly a tourist (the one exception was the guys in Trump tower, but in their defense i don’t think the group i was with was doing a great job with the sign-reading).
And i’m sorry Grace, but the MinneSOtan accent is just too easy…and besides, we’re just carrying on native MinneSOtan Garrison Keillor’s tradition.
(I kid because i care…mostly)
Yes, but to be fair making fun of a person’s accent doesn’t imply some moral failing on their part.
It’s funny you post this now, because I honestly had a conversation about this very topic with a bunch of tourists from Colorado not 10 minutes ago at my neighborhood bar. The quote gets it exactly right, and almost exactly as I told these tourists–New Yorkers are actually quite nice, they’re just in a hurry. Rushed as they are, they love to be helpful. Just ask and ye shall receive.
One of my better stories–from just last week, actually–was wandering into a deli still hungover and ordering coffee, only to realize that I had no cash on me and they didn’t take credit cards. Resigned, and about to leave, I was stopped by the cashier, who said: “Just take it. Pay me next time.”
Man, that really restored my faith in humanity.
(Of course, maybe it was just a shrewd business move. Ever since, I’ve felt a deep connection with the place; I’m pretty much guaranteed to buy my morning coffee there in preference to any other local place as long as I’m in the area. But still! He didn’t know that!)
I’m with Grace here. As one who grew up in the Midwest, I think the Midwesterners-as-backward-country-bumpkins is just as prevalent (if not more prevalent) as New-Yorkers-as-really-rude-people.
Given that I now live in a coastal city, I’m no fan of of the idealized “heartland” narrative. That said, I’m also no fan of the (over)compensatory narrative in which people in the “flyover states” are universally deemed to be ignornant rubes. Mark Crispin Miller, in The Bush Dyslexicon, mentions in a footnote that there is as much provincialism in Manhattan as there is in Peoria, or something to that effect (Miller is originally from Illinois).
I’m probably a bit sensitive to this because my undergraduate alma mater, the University of Michigan, had a fairly significant number of students from northeastern states like New York. Most were pretty cool, but every now and then I’d run into someone who was frustrated that he or she had to walk among the little people of Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin,etc. because he or she couldn’t get into Columbia or Harvard and didn’t want to “settle” for SUNY-Binghamton.
Lmao. This Minneapolitan still thinks it’s a horse hockey that NYC rates better overall than my fair town, even if he doesn’t believe all the myths about the Big Mean City.
The funny thing is that people from outstate tell the same stories about Mpls.
And yes, mocking an accent is implying a moral failing of sort…it’s the direct implication that one has poor breeding and education. it’s something i learned a long time ago not to touch, especially because my accent is quite thin and is hard to place. i’m taken more seriously than some of my peers who grew up just down the road, because i don’t sound “Fargo.”
Coming as I do from one of those cities that is often called the New York of its nation – albeit by its own people – I’m actually amazed at those survey results. You mean people in huge, crowded cities living a hand-to-mouth existence virtually cramped up on top of each other DON’T consider eye contact an act of aggression? Holding doors open … not stepping right over you if you keel over dead on the pavement … does – not – compute.
(Unsurprisingly, we ended up on the bottom of the heap in that survey.)
Yay! You tell ‘em, zuzu!
As a life-long New Yorker, I’ve found that New Yorkers is actually a very friendly city, and I love NYers. NYers are *real*. We don’t waste time on bullshit; we tend to be rushed, brusque, sometimes rude. But if you need help, NYers will give you the shirt off their back. They’ll just do it quickly.
My family used to drive to Florida every year for vacation, and one of the things that I remember vividly about that was dealing with southerners. They’re superficially so warm and friendly – but god forbid you actually need anything, any actual help, and they all disappear. Kindly, politely, with that so-called wonderful southern hospitality, they all go away, talking sweetly about how much they sympathize with you.
NYers won’t waste time on the polite chit-chat. But when you need help, they’re there.
As someone who worked in a tech support call center that took calls from all over the nation, I can say that people fron New York are *much* nicer to deal with than their polar opposites, the Californians.
If you tell someone in New York that there’s an outage in their area and their cell phone/internet/television (I’ve had a lot of tech support jobs, New Mexico is kind of like the India of the US) won’t be working for awhile, they usually say, “Aw, fuck, that sucks,” and leave it at that. If you tell a Californian the same, they usually say, “But I neeeed it, I waaaant it noooow, why are you doing this to meeeee!!!!”
Also, in my state we get a lot of transplanted Californians and New Yorkers, and the Californians are much more irritating and much more likely to drive hummers.
And as for regionalism, at least people know the Midwest is part of the US. When I tell people I’m from New Mexico, they often make some sort of comment about how good my english is. Or, they mention how one time they had a breakfast burrito, with green chilie on it and everything, and how cool it was.
You forgot the most important thing – New Yorkers know where everything in the city is!
People in other parts of the nation have no idea how to get to interstates in their states, for gods sake, but NYers always know where the streets in their city are (and most other stuff too).
Trust me. You don’t want to make eye contact with random strangers. For most people it’s not that big a problem, but with a city this size, there are a high number of crazy people and/or people who will rip you off if you make eye contact. For instance, when you’re on the subway, it’s best to read the ads or a book, and not look up when one of the subway beggars gets on board to do his schtick, which almost never varies. Give money if you feel like it, but don’t make eye contact or you’re likely to be paid a lot of attention and/or told a life story.
And you don’t have time for that.
As for regionalism: I dunno about you, but when the person who’s supposed to be president of the entire country and the machine trying to get him elected spends an entire campaign season using your city and your region as shorthand for all that is morally wrong with the United States — and when no Democrat stands up and calls the fucker out and reminds everyone that New York, the Northeast and the coasts are part of this country, thankyouverymuch — yet also exploits your city’s tragedy for political gain, I get a bit miffed on behalf of my home.
Pansauce: I had such a good rant going, and you want to spoil it with FACTS?
“New York, the Northeast and the coasts are part of this country, thankyouverymuch”
That was my point, actually. As annoyed as you are by that, people in the rest of the country are equally annoyed at being referred to as “fly-over country” or being portrayed as the salt of the earth or dismissed out of hand as “anti-intellectual”. One irritation is, in my opinion, not more valid than the other. They’re just parts of the same whole.
And everyone should be disgusted by exploiting 9/11 for political gain.
Zuzu:
I’m in total agreement with you on the last point; I was furious when I heard about the campaign ads run against Howard Dean that tagged him and his supporters as a “freak show” that should go back to Vermont and even more so when no one said a word. Trust me, you don’t need to be from Vermont to see through that garbage.
Once again, Grace nails it for me. I think we all have anecdotes about someone’s contempt/ignorance of our home regions and they’re all just as pernicious.
Zuzu,
Oh, i see.
That Girl:
I have nothing to back this up for sure, but i would guess that people in NYC knowing how to get everywhere is as much a product of NYC (or at least Manhattan) being ridiculously easy to navigate, what with the street layouts and street names actually making sense (gasp!), as the people of NYC being smart/friendly/whatever. But all i have to compare to is Fort Worth, with its 8 by 10 block downtown area, and street names making almost no sense, so i could be wrong.
Oh, I thought NYC was terrific. I’m a Pacific Northwester myself, where people talk freely to strangers, but don’t believe in interfering in each other’s personal business–a nice balance. New Yorkers, it seemed to me, had a sort of comeraderie based on the incredible fact of so many different people trying to do so many different things in such a crazy space. Their haste didn’t bother me because it was part of their general upfront honesty.
By contrast, I lived in Dallas, TX for several years and never got used to the artificial friendliness there. They’d say, “How are you today?” but if you actually gave a reply, they’d scuttle backwards–not really interested, just observing a form. Dallas is a funny place–wants to be both the gateway to the wild west (which it isn’t) and has some kind of Southern hospitality goal (which it doesn’t achieve).
I lived in New York for five years and I could write a book about everything I hate about New Yorkers.
Yeah, but it would help if midwesterns would quit living up to the stereotype so often.
I’m in ND. We invented “North Dakota Nice” (which is sorta similar to the “nice guy” phenomenon). People here aren’t nice, they’re openly polite and passive-agressive.
I’m a New York transplant from the Midwest, so I can sort of speak for both. Growing up in the Midwest, everyone seemed more personable and individually friendly. But now that I live here, I pick up on quite a bit more snappiness and attitude from places like Minneapolis, Milwaukee, and Chicago when people are provoked or annoyed than I do here in NYC.
Sometimes people in NY get annoyed when you take too long asking a question, but it’s more in an “impatient” sense. They don’t seem to lecture you, snap, or whine quite as much as dissatissfied folk in the Midwestern cities or even in California.
When I worked for a national company where I had to call people and tell them their records needed updating or accuracy, I found Hawaiians and New Yorkers to be the most civil. They get the job done and that’s that. Chicago and Minneapolis the snippiest (“Why should I have to do thaaat? That’s ridiculous! For 25 years I never had to do thaaaaat…..” on and on for 20 minutes….). California and Florida were somewhere in between, although I sensed a sort of “entitlement” attitude from those places.
Even in my current job, the Chicago team is the one that will call you to bitch, lecture you, etc. (them and the French), whereas the most professional are the New Yorkers and the British.
Of course, most of this is grossly overgeneralized, but just my experience. Maybe it’s *because* New Yorkers are more in a hurry, that they don’t stop to lecture you?
Touche, Antigone, though I think a lot people don’t realize that the Midwest is actually a pretty varied place; the region itself is so ambiguous that Midwesterners themselves argue about who’s in it. I’ve had people from Iowa and the Dakotas tell me, raised as a Michigander, that I’m not Midwestern, but quasi-Canadian. I’m very familiar with Canadian culture and I can tell you Canadians would laugh at that.
I live in the Pacific Northwest now, and I like it very, very much, probably because there is a pretty significant residual Midwestern influence on the city (the first white settlers came from the Midwest), but I have noticed that while folks here are friendly, there are unspoken bounds beyond which one doesn’t go. For example, one tends not to speak to someone one doesn’t know a bar, especially if the parties are of opposite sexes. Contrast that with, say, Philadelphia, in which people I didn’t know talked to me all the time, regardless of gender.
Anecdotes and personal experience are very powerful in shaping our views of others, but it’s good to remember that the plural of anecdote is not data. I’ve found nice and rude people all over the country, and I enjoy regional differences for better and for worse. Chicago is not better than New York which is not better than Seattle. They’re just different.
And New Yorkers, if you’re tired of the hating, try being from Detroit. No one gives Detroiters any love unless they like the latest garage band act to come out of the city.
I used to live in North Minneapolis, and let me tell you, the murder rate there is scary. So I’m not that surprised that NYC got higher ratings. Murder tends to make you cranky.
That’s just ridiculous. I don’t know what the most polite city in the world is, but no way in hell is it New York.
I’m remined of the joke that in New York when they say “f— you” they mean “have a nice day” but in California they say “have a nice day” when they mean “f— you”.