Author: has written 462 posts for this blog.

Return to: Homepage | Blog Index

23 Responses

  1. ScottM
    ScottM June 29, 2006 at 1:31 pm |

    I’m not sure I agree with you piny. In general, she’s a pretty good Senator and I can understand having one or two hangups. In some ways, this is like a reverse version of many Republican’s “one pet cause” that they use to claim compassion while voting with the majority to slash funding for important programs the rest of the time.

  2. raging red
    raging red June 29, 2006 at 2:01 pm |

    The idea of amending the Constitution to limit people’s rights is completely antithetical to the original purpose of having a Bill of Rights to begin with, and I find it abhorrent. (See also, anti-gay marriage amendment.) The Bill of Rights was passed to make sure certain fundamental rights were preserved, so that the Constitution could not be read as allowing the government to infringe on those rights. (Originally interpreted to apply only to the federal government, then to the state governments after the 14th Amendment was passed.) Amendments should be used to protect and preserve people’s rights from government infringement, not to limit rights. The only time it’s been used to limit rights is when the 18th Amendment was passed, and we all know how that turned out.

  3. raging red
    raging red June 29, 2006 at 2:10 pm |

    Okay, as soon as I hit submit, I knew I shouldn’t have written “the only time…” without thinking for a little bit longer. The 11th Amendment limits the right of citizens to sue states.

  4. Thomas
    Thomas June 29, 2006 at 2:19 pm |

    Piny, she’s bad and always has been a nervous, spineless triangulator. I’ve always hated Lieberman, too (since he ran against Weicker, whom I loved) and now my home state is taking out its trash. If the Democratic Party cannot stand for anything, it is of little use. Movement conservatives started changing the Republican party and moving the American political discourse to the right in the 1940s. They didn’t run a candidate until 1964, didn’t get a President elected until 1980, and didn’t get real power until 1994. Reversing that process will be no faster or easier.

    Folks, I have a family. It’s not a question of whether I have that kind of time or patience. Quitting is not an option.

  5. Hugo
    Hugo June 29, 2006 at 2:40 pm |

    Feinstein has never, ever, been a liberal. Too many people outside California think of her and Barbara Boxer as being somehow similar; BB is as progressive a Senator as we’ve got. Both are Jewish women from the Bay Area — but Boxer came up through grass-roots activism and Feinstein bought her way in to politics and only ended up being a success after the man who beat her for the mayoralty of San Francisco was murdered.

    Feinstein, time and again, has revealed that she is the Left Coast’s Lieberman. I voted for her in 1992 and 1994, but voted for her Green opponent in ’00 and will vote for the Green again this time. Boxer, yay; Feinstein, boo.

  6. Casey
    Casey June 29, 2006 at 2:45 pm |

    I cannot respect anyone who holds more passion for a piece of fabric than the actual people that piece of fabric represents.

  7. zuzu
    zuzu June 29, 2006 at 2:53 pm |

    This flag you’re reminiscing about isn’t even an actual flag. It’s a bronze sculpture of a flag used to portray an actual flag that you’ve never seen.

    Actually, the sculpture flies a real flag, just not the one that flew over Mt. Suribachi (the Marines are bronze). She would have seen the one in the photograph (1945) long before the USMC Memorial was erected in 1951.

    Not, of course, that it matters. Democrats should stand up for free-speech issues, and this is a big one. It’s also one that’s completely, utterly unnecessary — who’s running around burning flags, for Pete’s sake, except to protest these perennial silly attempts to outlaw the nonexistent problem of flag burning?

    I fail to see why an incumbent Senator from San Francisco, of all places, should flip out over flag burning as an issue. It’s not like it’s going to cost her votes to vote against it just on the principle of the thing.

  8. SingOut
    SingOut June 29, 2006 at 3:11 pm |

    Wow – great post, Piny.

  9. ks
    ks June 29, 2006 at 3:45 pm |

    PIny, I had the same reaction as you. As soon as I heard about this, my first thought was to go out and buy a couple of flags to burn on the 4th, just for spite. I swear, most of the elected representatives in this country are idiots.

  10. Kathy McCarty
    Kathy McCarty June 29, 2006 at 4:03 pm |

    ALL OF US immediately wanted to wipe our butts with the flag, just as soon as we heard about the amendment. Thank GOD it didn’t pass, now we don’t have to.

    MY husband brought up an interesting point: what if you made a flag, exactly LIKE the American Flag, but it has fifty-one stars. Could you then burn it (or wipe with it) all you wanted? (I mean if this amendment HAD passed?)

    Another interesting point: burning is THE Legal way to dispose of Old Flags. Burning is supposed to be honorable, like a Viking Funeral.

  11. kate
    kate June 29, 2006 at 4:25 pm |

    Just something I read in that piece that our friendly patriarch Orrin Hatch said that caused me some momentary cognitive dissidence,

    “… it was about Congress taking back its right to control the Constitution from unelected Supreme Court members and restoring the pre-1989 situation. “All we want to do is restore power back to the Congress,” he said.

    He says this while the white house is running rip shod over congress and attempting at every minute to strip congressional oversight of the executive branch. So is the Republican plan to make an Imperial White House and have congress available only to brow beat and control the judicial branch — which would be elected as well?

    Easy job I guess once you get over the hurdle of all those democrats meddlin’ in the White House’s business, then control the public, control the judicial, control congress.

    Well, at least passing a flag burning amendment wouldn’t be so damn hard.

  12. little light
    little light June 29, 2006 at 4:33 pm |

    Another interesting point: burning is THE Legal way to dispose of Old Flags. Burning is supposed to be honorable, like a Viking Funeral.

    You know, that’s what a lot of people miss, I think. Within the bounds of the Flag Code, flag-burning can be a powerful, legal, respectful form of protest: one that says, symbolically, that the flag in question is too stained and tattered to be hung with honor, and needs to be renewed.

  13. Chris Clarke
    Chris Clarke June 29, 2006 at 5:16 pm |

    I fail to see why an incumbent Senator from San Francisco, of all places, should flip out over flag burning as an issue. It’s not like it’s going to cost her votes to vote against it just on the principle of the thing.

    Well she’s from San Francisco, but she’s gotta run statewide, and once you get more than about 75 miles from the ocean California turns deep, deep red.

    Which is not an excuse, of course. Feinstein sucks.

  14. DAS
    DAS June 29, 2006 at 5:51 pm |

    Regarding Feinstein:

    I remember in the post-9/11 hysteria she was one of the people leading the charge to further regulate student visas on the argument that some fraction of the 9/11 hijackers had student visas. So I did the statistics and the proportion of hijackers who had student visas was actually smaller than the proportion of visa holders in general who had student visas (although not significantly so). I e-mailed this finding to Feinstein, but since I am not a constituent of hers, I guess she felt free to ignore the statistics presented to her.

    Feinstein also presents us with an object lesson as to how the Dems. do not pick up any swing voters by moving toward the “center”. She’s always trying to sound “tough” and “serious” and “centrist” but does it help her politically? Well, it can’t hurt her too badly, she’s still in office … but I can tell you, as an ex-Californian with many friends, across the political spectrum who still live in the state, the more politically liberal Boxer actually has a lot broader range of support from people of all political stripes than Feinstein does. Centrists and even some conservatives may disagree with liberal Democrats on certain issues but would rather vote for someone with convictions, even those with which they disagree, than for someone who is a pandering triangulator. Indeed, many centrists are more socially liberal than they realize, but they still might vote for conservatives with whom they disagree more than liberals with whom they agree and cite social issues as the reason for their vote — what does this mean? That they are looking for “moral conviction” rather than any specifics of what that conviction is. We Dems. would do well then to embrace our ideology rather than run away from it as certain Dems are wont to do.

  15. DAS
    DAS June 29, 2006 at 5:53 pm |

    Well she’s from San Francisco, but she’s gotta run statewide, and once you get more than about 75 miles from the ocean California turns deep, deep red.

    Which is not an excuse, of course. Feinstein sucks. – Chris Clarke

    Sometimes you don’t have to go even that far: I know the drill, I’m from the OC. But, see my last post, does Feinstein’s “moderation” help her with those deep red folks? My experience is that it does not.

  16. Julie
    Julie June 29, 2006 at 6:24 pm |

    I didn’t know that about California and now I want to crawl into a hole. I know NY is that way… the further in state you get (I live in rural central NY and it’s about as red as you can get) the less liberal it is, but I always associated California with liberalness. (Is that even a word?) I guess you learn something new everyday.
    The flag burning amendment has never made sense to me. It’s one of those things that I personally feel no desire to ever do… besides which my grandfather would roll in his grave if I did, but I really don’t care if someone else wants to. I don’t see the issue here… it’s a piece of fabric. Yes, an important symbol, but nothing more than a piece of fabric. If you burn one, there are 8 million more out there. I think there are times when it’s very inappropriate (think outside of a military funeral or something) but like zuzu said, this is almost non-existant. When was the last time you heard of a flag being burned? I am 25 and have yet to read about a protest involving the burning of the flag.

  17. Rachel
    Rachel June 29, 2006 at 8:23 pm |

    Joe Lieberman of the West Coast – that’s spot on. She’s also terrible on disability rights issues. Can we PLEASE get a decent candidate to unseat the woman, please?

  18. zuzu
    zuzu June 29, 2006 at 8:40 pm |

    When was the last time you heard of a flag being burned? I am 25 and have yet to read about a protest involving the burning of the flag.

    Vietnam, really. There’s still the dirty-hippie thing, and so many conservatives haven’t let go of the 60s that Dems like Feinstein just follow along with them.

  19. Maia
    Maia June 29, 2006 at 9:39 pm |

    “Is it agains the law to cut up the flag?”

    “Not if you sew it back together.”

    (yes, the only useful thing I have to add for this discussion is a quote from a movie starring Kirsten Dunst and Michelle Williams, but it’s a really good movie).

    Actually that’s not true; I’ll also hate Diane Feinstein, even though everything I know about her comes from reading And the Band Played On.

  20. CarrieCann
    CarrieCann June 30, 2006 at 11:20 pm |

    As others have noted, she’s in San Francisco, so she “runs” as a Democrat, but she’s as Republican as Lieberman. Follow the money trail to her husband …

    I’m voting for the Republican that runs against her this year. It’s sad that the Democratic party can’t muster anything of value to run against her, she’s so “placed” (again, follow the husband’s money trail) that she can’t be beat at this time.

    If Sheehan would have actually gone up against her, as was her initial intention, THAT might have given Ms. Diane something to seethe over (and something to rally the disaffected dems in CA) but, alas, that was smothered by a direct DNCC hit!

Comments are closed.

The commenting period has expired for this post. If you wish to re-open the discussion, please do so in the latest Open Thread.