Angry Brown Butch linked to this post entitled, “The Internet Ate My Subculture:”
One of the characters in a book I’m reading publishes an underground paper. I used to do that- it was pretty okay. We covered a lot of local news, distributed newspaper-looking newspapers in churches and convenience stores, made a fairly good show of staying on top of stories in the scene and out. I don’t think I could do that again. Not the hours or the arguments, that part was fine. I just don’t think enough people read. Or rather, I think they read blogs instead, mostly written by their friends, and regardless of the value of the content. I don’t think you can get anyone’s attention any more. And that was five years ago. What happened?
(snip)
Is it totally trite to blame MySpace? Or Friendster? Or hell, livejournal? The timing is right. They keep everyone “connected” without having to, y’know, do anything together except catechise our daily living and fuck. Memoirs are now the best-selling genre of new book. Coincidence? We can get all the kudos and sexiness we need without ever leaving the house, without ever extending ourselves beyond our individual choices of which job, which identity, which sound card, which sex act we prefer. Narrativize it, publish it, let the appreciative comments pour in…
Belledame in comments was skeptical:
While I def. agree that public culture has been disappearing over the last x years/decades, i wouldn’t frame it as the Internet being *responsible.* I think if anything it’s a kind of counter to the general lack of “meatspace” public space.
I’m conflicted. On the one hand, I don’t really know from pre-internet organizing. I was in eighth grade when zines were becoming passe.
On the other, well, my subcultural contacts wouldn’t be contacts if not for the internet. I live in a city where I can–and do, albeit not as often as I should–go see people like me live and in person every night of the week. There are bars and readings and open-mics and concerts and benefits and picnics and marches and support groups and orgies and movie nights. And, of course, people. But those are all here. Elsewhere, it’s a different arrangement altogether. Our community is atomized for a variety of reasons. That’s how I see internet interactions, from blogs to message boards to livejournals to mytribester. They allow relatively isolated people to come in contact with other people whose meat* lives would never intersect with their own. I’m not sure they’re an alternative so much as an innovation.
The internet solves distance and isolation beyond the geographical kind. A transperson or other queer who cannot come out in real life can come out and seek support online. Someone at home with a chronic, debilitating illness can talk to other chronically ill, housebound people. A parent doesn’t have to bundle the kids et impedimenta into the car for a trip across town to talk to other parents. Someone who goes to work before dawn and returns home after dark can still have long conversations with friends. Some of my online relationships have become real-life relationships, but I admit that most of them don’t and never will. Some real-life relationships have moved to become primarily online correspondence.
It’s true that this kind of contact can seem lacking in some ways, and that it doesn’t always work with real-life etiquette. A few months ago–no link, sorry–Chris Clarke posted about learning of the death of someone he only knew online. Was it appropriate to send condolences? What would he say, and to whom? Was it appropriate to feel grief? How much? (He asked these questions more eloquently than I’m representing them here.) I don’t think that these questions represent a lack of depth of feeling, or an immature kind of friendship; I think they’re a product of the lag between human relationships and the rules that cover them. And I’ve faced similar dilemmas with friends I know primarily in real life, whether deciding to send a gift or attend a funeral. Estrangement happens all the time, and it creates ambiguity between the former relationship and the remaining one.
Now, Anne isn’t just writing about a narcissistic trend in human relationships, but the confusion of identity-based narcissism with political action. I will admit that information and support and activism tend to be conflated in online communities for people whose problems are a lack of visibility and information. For some of us, the fact of other people like us is profound. Forget knowing any of them–knowing about them is enough. And some of that superficial livejournal backslapping and buttkissing–particularly the “sexiness”–is something that community members have received seldom if at all. (There are certain other problems with that dynamic, but that’s another post.) While these interactions have not created activist change per se, they don’t seem to have hindered it, or to have made people less political and selfish than they otherwise would be.
So I suppose I’m skeptical too.
*The other week, in a discussion about Amazon, I referred to Barnes and Noble as a “meat bookstore.” Is that expression about to go the way of “cyber?” Has it already? I hope so.




I have to disagree with Angry Brown Butch. Back in the days BEFORE the Internet, when it was an ALL meat culture, it was completely hard to get anything happening, ANYTHING!! It was NOT better, in terms of political or any other type of organizing. The Internet is the BEST TOOL EVER for dissemination of information and political and social organizing.
ABB didn’t write this post, but linked to it.
I’m skeptical. Prior to the internet, it was alarmingly difficult to have deep, thoughtful, extended conversations with a variety of people like it is now. I think in a lot of ways, people who do this are smarter. Zines were fun, but each one was time-consuming and there wasn’t a lot of give-and-take. I like the internet a lot better.
I agree with the rest of you. In my local community and line of work I don’t find very many people who hold my core beliefs and values. Isolation and alienation is not healthy and can cause one to skew their values to the peer set they come most in contact with.
By having the internet, I am able to gain far more information than ever before on any variety of topics, interact with people I’d never see in real life, whether because of social, economic or geographic barriers.
I think people who are intellectually lazy will not use any means to find answers or learn new things, regardless of what is available to them. But those who yearn to have their curiosity satisfied and questions answered, or to just know that they aren’t alone, the internet is a boon.
Also, I remember going online in the early 90′s and there was an exclusive community of geeks and lurkers, but it was still a closed sector of the population. Now, that internet availability has expanded, people everywhere are on.
What I see most is the burdgeoning left wing slap-back that’s happening on the web. People who don’t control the major media outlets, yet have a voice to raise and need to have the affirmation of others, now have the internet and the effect is powerful.
It is no mystery to me that corporations want to get control of it.
While still living in the community in which I grew up, nearly all of my interactions – both personal and political – were conducted out in the real world. The internet was still in its infancy, so that wasn’t really an option. Even if it had been, I don’t think anything really would have changed. I had lived in the same metropolitan area for over twenty years, so I had a rich network of friends and associates to draw on for companionship and joint action. I knew where all of the good coffee shops, record stores, used book stores, and clubs were. And I knew how to find things, if I didn’t already know where they were.
After my first move, everything changed. I was 1,000 miles from home, in a place with limited social and political outlets (limited, at any rate, for those who didn’t happen to be Conservative Christian Republicans). At that point, the internet (specifically AOL – this was back when AOL was one of the only games in town) was a critical means through which I could create new relationships and maintain old ones. As a liberal Democrate and a Pagan, the ability to find others with whom I could come to some sort of meeting of the minds proved a vital way to combat the loneliness inherent in dealing with a completely new and very foreign place.
The friendships and associations I made in those early years have proved quite durable, surviving as we drifted away from AOL to other ISPs. They were maintained through e-lists, internet based message boards, services like LiveJournal, and more personal contacts like phone calls and visits. Some of these friendships have endured for over a decade and have become treasured parts of my life. So, whatever its drawbacks, I think the positives – especially for folks who are relatively isolated – greatly outweigh the negatives.
You’ve got to be kidding me. This is nothing more than ink and paper elitism.
I agree with Kathy. As if having more access to information, including social information, were so distracting that it made us forget to be activists?