Biden makes an extremely offensive remark about Indian-Americans, saying that “You CANNOT go into a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts without an Indian accent.”
Many lefty bloggers respond, rightfully criticizing him. The usual suspects “don’t see what the big deal is.”
1.
I’m going to have some fun with this. First because I don’t think “Rosary Joe” Biden is a racist at heart. A smug, self-important blowhard? Yup? But a racist? Nah. Plus, he’s right about the 7-11’s, at least the ones that I frequent. Not Dunkin Donuts though.
2.
It is a fact that a lot of Indian-Americans own such franchises (which screen employees to ensure they are here legally, by the way). No reason to get the p.c. vapors over his clumsy little crack making that basic observation.
And other wingnuts are happy to attack Biden, but won’t utter a peep when politicians on their side of the fence make similar comments — or when they try and turn personal bigotries into law.
Racism is ugly, wherever it comes from. We’ve gotta criticize our own when we see it on the left. If only the right would do the same.
(A good place to start: The tactics that the far right borrows from white supremacists).
[...] k-in-trade. (See David Neiwert for the connections between Malkin and white supremacists.) Jill at Feministe expresses my views on the matter. Be sure to add your own favorite ex [...]
Well, I guess I’m the exception, because I’m a lefty blogger who doesn’t think this is a big deal. Dumb thing to say? Yep. Indicative of racist tendencies? Not by a long shot. As I’ve said elsewhere, this shows, at worst, that Biden is guilty of making awkward, overbroad generalizations to try to connect with someone in the room.
And for whatever it’s worth, he said “a slight Indian accent”. If we’re going to pillorize the guy over this, let’s at least quote him accurately.
Listen, I think Joe Biden’s just generally a dumbass, but gosh, I guess I’m one of those “extremely vile wingnuts” that doesn’t really see how his comments are all that offensive. The implication of his statement is this: “In Delaware, most 7-11s and Dunkin’ Donuts are run by people of Indian descent.”
How is that offensive? I can think of a whole slew of similar comments that certainly don’t register as offensive:
“In Los Angeles, especially the Hollywood area, most waiters and waitresses are struggling actors and actresses.”
“In Buckhead [a really trendy, chic part of Atlanta], most male Banana Republic employees are gay.”
“Most country club members are wealthy white people.”
“In the ghetto, most young, black men aspire to be either a successful athlete or a successful rapper/producer.”
You might contest the TRUTH of any of these statements, but I hardly see why any of them ought to be OFFENSIVE. How am I mistreating the gay community by pointing out that SOME gay men have found work with Banana Republic? Am I a bigot for merely observing that, any time I (or someone I know) have visited a country club, it’s been primarily rich-looking white guys?
Just because something is a generalization doesn’t immediately make it offensive, you know. I’m sure there are generalizations and stereotypes that apply to me (or people like me) . . . and I’m certainly not hurt by that. Hasty generalizations are fallacious, but as anyone familiar with the basics of induction knows, strong inductive arguments don’t yield hasty generalizations.
In fact, for the most part, generalizations and stereotypes are only offensive when the thing being predicated upon the subject class is embarrassing or unfair. For instance, I’ve yet to hear a black man COMPLAIN about (1) the “they’ve got bigger penises” stereotype or (2) the “they’re better dancers than us white folk” stereotype, etc., but (and rightfully), they certainly don’t appreciate (3) the “they can’t keep a job” stereotype or (4) the “they make terrible fathers” stereotype.
So the only reason I can think of for tolerance-heralding liberals like yourself to respond in the way you have would be if owning and managing an establishment like 7-11 or Dunkin’ Donuts is something about which the person, or group of people, ought to be embarrassed. By taking offense, are you implying that owning a Dunkin Donuts or 7-11 is embarrassing?
In fact, one of my good friends is an Indian-American. His parents don’t own a 7-11 or a Dunkin’ Donuts, but they do own both a Blimpie and a Brusters. And they love it. They take great pride in it. And do you wanna know how they got into the business? Through connections with OTHER Indian-American owners of similar businesses.
That Indian-Americans have a tendency toward such careers is not some sort of unfair stereotype, it’s an observable fact. As is the fact that most male Banana Republic employees in Buckhead are homosexual.
Notice that the young Indian man in the Biden video doesn’t seem to give a damn about Biden’s comment. In fact, judging by Biden’s reaction (since the Indian guy’s off-camera immediately following the remark), it looks as if he AGREES with Biden’s comment. Which, of course, would make him just as blameworthy as you’re implicating that Biden is.
Perhaps if you’d stop to consider the fact that not everybody in America cares to be the uber-sophisticated Manhattan-type like yourself — that is, that Indian-Americans like the guy in the video and my Indian friend’s family might own or work at establishments like Dunkin Donuts and Brusters because they WANT to — you might not be so taken aback by Biden’s comment. Your righteous indignation here rings with an air of “How cruel of Joe Biden to remind those poor Indian people that they are not like ME.”
If Indian-Americans have nothing to be ashamed of owning such businesses, and if it is the case that many such businesses (especially in Delaware) ARE own by Indian-Americans, then I hardly see a reason for you liberals to get so worked up about this. Sounds more like over-sensitivity to me. The second you hear anyone saying anything that even sounds like a generalization, you assume it’s an unfair one and immediately cry, “Bigot!”
You know, I just don’t see why he would have made this “basic” observation at all. Why is it germane to say such a thing? Who cares if 7/11 staff have accents or not? Why on earth did he say it? The fact that he thought it was important enough to bring up in a public forum shows that he has issues about race.
And why is it better for him to have said “a slight Indian accent” than “an Indian accent”? Both are simply irrelevant points. Unless he’s making a greater point about legally resident or naturalized citizen Indians in the workforce, which would be what? They have a right to work, don’t they? So what’s the point?
How is what he said racist? Weird, yeah (Biden says a lot of weird things). I think the word racist gets thrown around way too much, which makes the term lose any meaning. The fact is a lot of people of from India own and operate convenience store franchises–why is that something to be ashamed of? Again, it’s a weird thing to point out in a random conversation with a voter of Indian descent, but hardly racist.
He should have knew better. The good ol’ right wing bloggers are licking their chops.
His point for saying that was to compliment Indian-Americans for a strong work ethic and growing presence in the US, but yeah, it was an impolitic thing to say.
That’s true but he could have said it the way you did. Instead of mentioning any race. I’m afraid the madness will never stop unless we are all gray.
I’m with Anna: The racism isn’t in what Biden said, exactly, but in the fact that he said it in the first place.
It’s nice to believe that “In Delaware, most 7-11s and Dunkin’ Donuts are run by people of Indian descent” is a value-neutral statement, but it really isn’t. We live in a country that routinely puts minorities in the position of “other,” and that’s exactly what this quote does. He creates an unnecessary us-vs.-them dichotomy that can easily be read as offensive by a whole lot of people.
His point for saying that was to compliment Indian-Americans for a strong work ethic and growing presence in the US
In that light, Biden’s comment seems even worse. To compliment Indian-Americans, he refers to their work in 7-11s and Dunkin’ Donuts. Lovely.
Which isn’t to say that 7-11 and Dunkin’ Donuts employees aren’t hard-working individuals.
You’re right Hestia. I think the whole race thing is redundant. It is the us vs. them attitude that sets me off as well. It’s nice to actually have good dialogue with someone that is left leaning. You actually address the issues instead of dodging them.
Brandcn, did you watch the video clip? Go watch it, then weigh in.
Context: Young south asian (from context, I can assume Indian-descended) guy shake Joe Biden’s hand, tells him he has a lot of support in the Indian-American community. Joe Biden gladhands the dude, “thanks for your support, more in future” and comments that Delaware has a growing population of immigrant from India, and that he’s happy about it.
Then he drops the meatball: “You CANNOT go into a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts without an Indian accent.”
Well intentioned, but a dumb-fuck thing to say. I would contend that it’s an indication of racist attitudes on his part. Indian-immigration = convenience store clerks. Not, y’know, IT people, engineers, students, so on. Racist/not-racist aside, how do you think it will be taken by Indian-American voters?
It’s like having a polite well-dressing Asian guy pledging support, then saying “thanks! The laundry and restaurant industries are very import to our state.” Nice job, buddy.
By that analogy, the problem isn’t him making the connection from “Banana Republic employee” to “gay”, but from “gay” to “Banana Republic employee”.
Fucking seriously, people. Watch the clip before commenting on it. CONTEXT.
What you know about donuts? I thought you hated those things.
I don’t care who’s behind the counter as long as the Icee machine works.
Well, I have. Does my anecdotal evidence trump yours?
And I have also. Two against one?
I guess Biden has figured that everyone that was around when he was exposed for plagarism is dead or deaf by now. I’m not.
That he would have the gall to step up and see himself fit to be president seems indicative of that sick egomaniac state one must be in to actually desire to run for president.
On Greenwald’s site many are counting the days to the right’s demise. I am not so confident. We’ve got a long row to hoe yet and I think we’re in for a long hard fight.
Hestia,
How on earth does Biden’s comment “create an unnecessary us-vs.-them dichotomy”? By that logic, any categorical proposition in which the subject class is any sort of group of persons whatsoever creates such a dichotomy and is, I guess, tinged with racism . . . which is ridiculous.
Not only that, but programs like Saturday Night Live are terribly racist, as many of their characters and sketches can be accused of creating this us-vs.-them dichotomy for singling out persons of various ethnicities, religious affiliations, etc., and putting them in the position of “other” for comedic purposes.
And the implications, of course, go on and on.
What’s wrong with working in a 7-11 or Dunkin’ Donuts? Surely you’re not implying that these are careers to be looked down upon.
~~~
KnifeGhost,
As long as Biden’s comment can be interpreted as I’ve interpreted it (“In Delaware, most 7-11s and Dunkin’ Donuts are run by people of Indian descent”), I don’t see any significant difference in the analogy.
~~~
QLH,
Nope. Despite your uncommon experience, it remains the case that people rarely complain about those stereotypes that predicate relatively desirable things upon them — that is, the stereotypes that they like.
I really can’t help but get the impression that Jill’s original post and comments like Hestia’s imply that working at 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts is something about which a person — Indian or not — should be embarrassed.
How many black men confide in you about their private concerns?
“Black men are well-hung” may work great if you’re a black man sporting eleven inches. If you’re a black man with smaller equipment, and people who believe in racist stereotypes expect you to bring something hefty to the party, how do you think it feels to know you’re not going to live up to their ever-so-fun racist stereotypes? Does that seem like a real confidence-builder?
(Oh, but I guess the fact that he can dance makes it all better.)
I think it is kind of funny that he thought of the convenience store example right away as opposed to, say, higher education (particularly in business and IT) – other IT fields – finance – I have seen ethnic Indians in all those fields to the point I probably have a stereotype in my mind. But, if I were running for office and I were meeting a supporter who’se ethnic Indian, I’d just hope I would not blurt out some weird stereotype related to their work at an entry level and low-prestige (though not bad or anything, but low-prestige in this society) job like behind the 7/11 counter, because it’s just patronizing sounding.
Making patronizing sounding statements to a voter, well let’s just say if I were the voter I’d be turned off. Even if anyone here thinks he is on moral safe ground, just pragmatically he should learn not to go around spouting race stereotypes (particularly when addressing the races in question) because it will lose him votes. Maybe he will learn that lesson soon. Hope the good people of Connecticut are in a teaching kinda mood.
You just don’t get it. It’s not that owning a 7-11 is bad, it’s that when he looks at some random Indian guy his first thought is “convenience store owner”. Perhaps you’d understand if he’d shaken hands with a Jewish guy and them made a comment about how important bankers are to the local ecomony, or if he’d shaken hands with aq black guy and then said something about the revenue pro basketball brings to the state.
Ah, I see what the problem is. You’re totally immune to context. It’s a common affliction