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	<title>Comments on: Women Underground</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:48:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: Kristjan Wager</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55876</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristjan Wager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55876</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But then again, perhaps European men are not as aggressive as American men.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

First of all, that would perhaps depend on what you mean by aggressive, but I get your point. 

Second of all, that depends - there is a very big difference in culture between Southern Europe (Spain, Italy, Greece etc.) and Northern Europe (Scandinavia), and between Western Europe and Middle/Easter Europe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But then again, perhaps European men are not as aggressive as American men.</p></blockquote>
<p>First of all, that would perhaps depend on what you mean by aggressive, but I get your point. </p>
<p>Second of all, that depends &#8211; there is a very big difference in culture between Southern Europe (Spain, Italy, Greece etc.) and Northern Europe (Scandinavia), and between Western Europe and Middle/Easter Europe.</p>
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		<title>By: RachelPhilPa</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55817</link>
		<dc:creator>RachelPhilPa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 01:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55817</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;This is why I prefer gender-seperated bathrooms. With the caveat that children dont count and gender is self-determined.&lt;/em&gt;

I second the caveat.  However, this does not really solve the issue for all gender-variant people.

What are those who identify as neither male nor female supposed to do?  I know more than a few people who identify as non-gendered, third-sex, etc.  What bathrooms are they supposed to use?

In some European countries (such as the Scandinavian countries, IIRC), non-gendered bathrooms are common, and there aren&#039;t problems with crime, at least not as severe as in the US.  Booths are truly private (locks that really work, ceiling to floor dividers, no little cracks to peek through).  The lack of a door to the general area is actually helpful, in that someone that yells for help can actually be *heard*.

But then again, perhaps European men are not as aggressive as American men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>This is why I prefer gender-seperated bathrooms. With the caveat that children dont count and gender is self-determined.</em></p>
<p>I second the caveat.  However, this does not really solve the issue for all gender-variant people.</p>
<p>What are those who identify as neither male nor female supposed to do?  I know more than a few people who identify as non-gendered, third-sex, etc.  What bathrooms are they supposed to use?</p>
<p>In some European countries (such as the Scandinavian countries, IIRC), non-gendered bathrooms are common, and there aren&#8217;t problems with crime, at least not as severe as in the US.  Booths are truly private (locks that really work, ceiling to floor dividers, no little cracks to peek through).  The lack of a door to the general area is actually helpful, in that someone that yells for help can actually be *heard*.</p>
<p>But then again, perhaps European men are not as aggressive as American men.</p>
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		<title>By: Blue</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55815</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 01:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55815</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard that university classes are just as problematic as subway cars for many Egyptian women. The classes are so crowded it&#039;s often three people per chair and close contact all around. Even without the religious conflicts this would present for many devout muslims, I&#039;d find this disturbing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard that university classes are just as problematic as subway cars for many Egyptian women. The classes are so crowded it&#8217;s often three people per chair and close contact all around. Even without the religious conflicts this would present for many devout muslims, I&#8217;d find this disturbing.</p>
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		<title>By: pmoney</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55747</link>
		<dc:creator>pmoney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55747</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;a clitorectomy seems to be a high price to pay to live in a society. I cannot imagine too many males who would be willing to entertain castration for education&lt;/em&gt;

I certainly would not get a clitorectomy in exchange for an education!  No way, no day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>a clitorectomy seems to be a high price to pay to live in a society. I cannot imagine too many males who would be willing to entertain castration for education</em></p>
<p>I certainly would not get a clitorectomy in exchange for an education!  No way, no day.</p>
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		<title>By: KnifeGhost</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55734</link>
		<dc:creator>KnifeGhost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55734</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The next time you hear that Middle Eastern/Muslim women are submissive, quiet or invisible, point them to this article.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That, or I&#039;ll tersely suggest that they meet a few before passing judgement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The next time you hear that Middle Eastern/Muslim women are submissive, quiet or invisible, point them to this article.</p></blockquote>
<p>That, or I&#8217;ll tersely suggest that they meet a few before passing judgement.</p>
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		<title>By: Ginger</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55726</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55726</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;what I find interesting is that, across cultures, men think it’s okay to publicly humiliate females simply because of their sex. I think there’s a lot of hostility toward females that can be explained as part of the food chain…kicking the person who’s perceived to be somehow more vulnerable than you are. –and if somehow they act as if they’re not more vulnerable, then it’s “okay” to humiliate them to “put them in their places.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wow. Powerfully said, and so right on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>what I find interesting is that, across cultures, men think it’s okay to publicly humiliate females simply because of their sex. I think there’s a lot of hostility toward females that can be explained as part of the food chain…kicking the person who’s perceived to be somehow more vulnerable than you are. –and if somehow they act as if they’re not more vulnerable, then it’s “okay” to humiliate them to “put them in their places.</p></blockquote>
<p>Wow. Powerfully said, and so right on.</p>
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		<title>By: fauxreal</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55699</link>
		<dc:creator>fauxreal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55699</guid>
		<description>the gender segregation and the titles like &quot;how to be a slut for your husband&quot; sound like they could come from an American fundie experience, imo. same with the lingerie. 

going back even further, in chimp societies, males and females have their own power groups. females use their segregated power to control other females&#039; access to food, etc. and insure their own young have plenty. but they can protect each other too, if they&#039;ve formed a bond. 

I&#039;d imagine, if someone looked at the female-only resources, they&#039;d find another hierarchy that mimics the one the females face with males, with social humiliation as a form of coercion. 

a clitorectomy seems to be a high price to pay to live in a society. I cannot imagine too many males who would be willing to entertain castration for education...not since the middle ages or so. And certainly not as a standard part of society. 

what I find interesting is that, across cultures, men think it&#039;s okay to  publicly humiliate females simply because of their sex.  I think there&#039;s a lot of hostility toward females that can be explained as part of the food chain...kicking the person who&#039;s perceived to be somehow more vulnerable than you are. --and if somehow they act as if they&#039;re not more vulnerable, then it&#039;s &quot;okay&quot; to humiliate them to &quot;put them in their places.&quot; 

but that&#039;s just my opinion. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the gender segregation and the titles like &#8220;how to be a slut for your husband&#8221; sound like they could come from an American fundie experience, imo. same with the lingerie. </p>
<p>going back even further, in chimp societies, males and females have their own power groups. females use their segregated power to control other females&#8217; access to food, etc. and insure their own young have plenty. but they can protect each other too, if they&#8217;ve formed a bond. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d imagine, if someone looked at the female-only resources, they&#8217;d find another hierarchy that mimics the one the females face with males, with social humiliation as a form of coercion. </p>
<p>a clitorectomy seems to be a high price to pay to live in a society. I cannot imagine too many males who would be willing to entertain castration for education&#8230;not since the middle ages or so. And certainly not as a standard part of society. </p>
<p>what I find interesting is that, across cultures, men think it&#8217;s okay to  publicly humiliate females simply because of their sex.  I think there&#8217;s a lot of hostility toward females that can be explained as part of the food chain&#8230;kicking the person who&#8217;s perceived to be somehow more vulnerable than you are. &#8211;and if somehow they act as if they&#8217;re not more vulnerable, then it&#8217;s &#8220;okay&#8221; to humiliate them to &#8220;put them in their places.&#8221; </p>
<p>but that&#8217;s just my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: That Girl</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55678</link>
		<dc:creator>That Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/07/21/women-underground/#comment-55678</guid>
		<description>This is why I prefer gender-seperated bathrooms. With the caveat that children dont count and gender is self-determined.

I like feeling (albeit wrongly) that I am &quot;safe&quot; from the male gaze, that I have a place where I wont offend anyone by asking for a tampon or mentioning menstration or just being a woman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is why I prefer gender-seperated bathrooms. With the caveat that children dont count and gender is self-determined.</p>
<p>I like feeling (albeit wrongly) that I am &#8220;safe&#8221; from the male gaze, that I have a place where I wont offend anyone by asking for a tampon or mentioning menstration or just being a woman.</p>
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