<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Gendered Menu</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:13:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	
	<item>
		<title>By: anotherlynne</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60513</link>
		<dc:creator>anotherlynne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 16:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60513</guid>
		<description>I too like the idea of price-free menus if one can get away from the gender issue.

The check thing, tho, that really chaps my ass. In the last month I&#039;ve been out to dinner with a male (three times a friend and once my son) 4 times and each time the check was given to the male in question. WTF? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too like the idea of price-free menus if one can get away from the gender issue.</p>
<p>The check thing, tho, that really chaps my ass. In the last month I&#8217;ve been out to dinner with a male (three times a friend and once my son) 4 times and each time the check was given to the male in question. WTF?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: zuzu</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60478</link>
		<dc:creator>zuzu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Aug 2006 22:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60478</guid>
		<description>I used to date a guy, when I was working for the Evil Empire and making six figures, who was a Head Start teacher.  He got a little weird about me paying for dinner -- he wanted to do it.  But I well knew what it was like to be in the position of someone who couldn&#039;t pay what her friends could -- like in college, when I hung out with some girls whose parent paid their credit-card bills and bought them cars (while I paid my own way and really hated when they snotted that I couldn&#039;t afford to do something).  So we went to cheap places I knew he could well afford.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to date a guy, when I was working for the Evil Empire and making six figures, who was a Head Start teacher.  He got a little weird about me paying for dinner &#8212; he wanted to do it.  But I well knew what it was like to be in the position of someone who couldn&#8217;t pay what her friends could &#8212; like in college, when I hung out with some girls whose parent paid their credit-card bills and bought them cars (while I paid my own way and really hated when they snotted that I couldn&#8217;t afford to do something).  So we went to cheap places I knew he could well afford.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Raincitygirl</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60477</link>
		<dc:creator>Raincitygirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Aug 2006 22:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60477</guid>
		<description>I really don&#039;t see how the average wage gap applies to individual men and women. If I&#039;m going to restaurants with someone on a fairly regular basis, we&#039;ll probably take turns paying. If it&#039;s not definite that I&#039;m not going to see them again, split the bill. And if you can&#039;t afford half the bill at the restaurant suggested by your date, suggest a more moderately-priced restaurant. Either they&#039;ll go along with that or they&#039;ll say &quot;Dinner&#039;s on me&quot; in advance. 

If people have very dikfferent financial situations (say A has a good job and B is a starving student), it makes sense for A to pay mosst of the time, or for B to only pay when they go out somewhere inexpensive. If A *wants* to go on fancier dates (nice restaurants, maybe a play) and doesn&#039;t mind paying for both, they shouldn&#039;t necessarily only do things that are wtihin B&#039;s budget. 

Heck, I&#039;ve had that happen with platonic friends. If one of us is in a financial crunch and the other is doing fine, the other will offer to pick up the tab for, say, dinner and a movie, because it&#039;s not that big a deal, and more fun than going to MacDonald&#039;s. And maybe a year or so down hte road the financial situations are reversed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t see how the average wage gap applies to individual men and women. If I&#8217;m going to restaurants with someone on a fairly regular basis, we&#8217;ll probably take turns paying. If it&#8217;s not definite that I&#8217;m not going to see them again, split the bill. And if you can&#8217;t afford half the bill at the restaurant suggested by your date, suggest a more moderately-priced restaurant. Either they&#8217;ll go along with that or they&#8217;ll say &#8220;Dinner&#8217;s on me&#8221; in advance. </p>
<p>If people have very dikfferent financial situations (say A has a good job and B is a starving student), it makes sense for A to pay mosst of the time, or for B to only pay when they go out somewhere inexpensive. If A *wants* to go on fancier dates (nice restaurants, maybe a play) and doesn&#8217;t mind paying for both, they shouldn&#8217;t necessarily only do things that are wtihin B&#8217;s budget. </p>
<p>Heck, I&#8217;ve had that happen with platonic friends. If one of us is in a financial crunch and the other is doing fine, the other will offer to pick up the tab for, say, dinner and a movie, because it&#8217;s not that big a deal, and more fun than going to MacDonald&#8217;s. And maybe a year or so down hte road the financial situations are reversed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rebecca</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60359</link>
		<dc:creator>rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2006 18:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60359</guid>
		<description>My family took my boyfried and me out to a very fancy restuarant for my birthday while we were in Paris last summer. Now, I&#039;m no fan of price-free menus for women, but I do understand that it is a vestige of an older time when men always paid for dinner. Indeed, having waited tables in NYC for a summer, I&#039;ve found that in any given family, the eldest male picks up the check 95% of the time. So it&#039;s not the most outrageous assumption that the man will pay. 

What irked me about this particular Parisian restaurant was that the waiter presented both my father AND my boyfriend (all of 22 years!) with regular menus, while my mother, sister, and I all received price-free menus. I&#039;d never experienced anything like that. It might be one thing for the eldest male at the table to receive the menu with prices, but for the youngin&#039; who&#039;s half my mother&#039;s age to receive the price menu while my mother is forced into ignorance is just plain sexist. 

My floppy-haired boyfriend clearly was not going to be picking up the check, and yet he was afforded the priviledge of knowing how much his food costs while my mother, much more sophisticated and experienced, was overlooked. Pissed me off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My family took my boyfried and me out to a very fancy restuarant for my birthday while we were in Paris last summer. Now, I&#8217;m no fan of price-free menus for women, but I do understand that it is a vestige of an older time when men always paid for dinner. Indeed, having waited tables in NYC for a summer, I&#8217;ve found that in any given family, the eldest male picks up the check 95% of the time. So it&#8217;s not the most outrageous assumption that the man will pay. </p>
<p>What irked me about this particular Parisian restaurant was that the waiter presented both my father AND my boyfriend (all of 22 years!) with regular menus, while my mother, sister, and I all received price-free menus. I&#8217;d never experienced anything like that. It might be one thing for the eldest male at the table to receive the menu with prices, but for the youngin&#8217; who&#8217;s half my mother&#8217;s age to receive the price menu while my mother is forced into ignorance is just plain sexist. </p>
<p>My floppy-haired boyfriend clearly was not going to be picking up the check, and yet he was afforded the priviledge of knowing how much his food costs while my mother, much more sophisticated and experienced, was overlooked. Pissed me off.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ACS</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60352</link>
		<dc:creator>ACS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2006 18:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60352</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Um, Tuomas, you’re comparing social inequity to a biological inequity, and what—you’re blaming women for the latter? Are women supposed to pay for the unhealthy things men do to themsleves and one another? Meanwhile the pay gap is not biological, and the very people benefiting from it then have the nerve to whine about its effects on the people it hurts. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

While some of the life expectency gap is biological inequity, a huge proportion of it is caused by what are clearly social factors. Men are less likely to make regular visits to the doctor. Men are disproportionately injured and killed in the workplace. Men are disproportionately victims of non-sexual violence. Men consume a higher percentage of their calories in fats. 

These are not, in any real sense, &quot;biological.&quot;

Not that either point makes any more sense either way. Just saying.

-- ACS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Um, Tuomas, you’re comparing social inequity to a biological inequity, and what—you’re blaming women for the latter? Are women supposed to pay for the unhealthy things men do to themsleves and one another? Meanwhile the pay gap is not biological, and the very people benefiting from it then have the nerve to whine about its effects on the people it hurts. </p></blockquote>
<p>While some of the life expectency gap is biological inequity, a huge proportion of it is caused by what are clearly social factors. Men are less likely to make regular visits to the doctor. Men are disproportionately injured and killed in the workplace. Men are disproportionately victims of non-sexual violence. Men consume a higher percentage of their calories in fats. </p>
<p>These are not, in any real sense, &#8220;biological.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not that either point makes any more sense either way. Just saying.</p>
<p>&#8211; ACS</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Official Shrub.com Blog  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Sexism on a Plate (Classism, too)</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60351</link>
		<dc:creator>Official Shrub.com Blog  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Sexism on a Plate (Classism, too)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2006 18:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60351</guid>
		<description>[...] nt practice of giving menus without prices to some patrons at restaurants.  (Feministe has commented on this as well.) The actual practices described varied from automa [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] nt practice of giving menus without prices to some patrons at restaurants.  (Feministe has commented on this as well.) The actual practices described varied from automa [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Miss Robyn</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60342</link>
		<dc:creator>Miss Robyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60342</guid>
		<description>Ooh- hadn&#039;t checked this for a while, but my statement &lt;em&gt;was&lt;/em&gt; made with my toungue rather firmly planted in my cheek- sorry if it didn&#039;t come across that way. I make this joke quite a bit, mostly when men complain about how &quot;women &lt;em&gt;totally&lt;/em&gt; have it easy because men buy them drinks all the time&quot;- which is just beyond absurd. However, the main reason they should pay is clearly because, frankly, they really ought to be grateful that I am deigning to dine with them at all. It&#039;s quite the privilege, I&#039;ll have you know. (also, so there is no confusion, my toungue has yet to center itself)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooh- hadn&#8217;t checked this for a while, but my statement <em>was</em> made with my toungue rather firmly planted in my cheek- sorry if it didn&#8217;t come across that way. I make this joke quite a bit, mostly when men complain about how &#8220;women <em>totally</em> have it easy because men buy them drinks all the time&#8221;- which is just beyond absurd. However, the main reason they should pay is clearly because, frankly, they really ought to be grateful that I am deigning to dine with them at all. It&#8217;s quite the privilege, I&#8217;ll have you know. (also, so there is no confusion, my toungue has yet to center itself)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60338</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60338</guid>
		<description>When Chris and I dated, it was whoever&#039;s idea it was to go out or whoever had money. I think he picked up more than I did, but he worked full time and I was a broke college student. Even after five years of marriage, it&#039;s still whoever has money on them at the time. I will admit though, we live in an area where an expensive restaurant would run you maybe 30 dollars a person? More if you get multiple alcoholic drinks. I think the most expensive dinner I&#039;ve ever had ran us about 75 for the two of us. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Chris and I dated, it was whoever&#8217;s idea it was to go out or whoever had money. I think he picked up more than I did, but he worked full time and I was a broke college student. Even after five years of marriage, it&#8217;s still whoever has money on them at the time. I will admit though, we live in an area where an expensive restaurant would run you maybe 30 dollars a person? More if you get multiple alcoholic drinks. I think the most expensive dinner I&#8217;ve ever had ran us about 75 for the two of us.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mk</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60332</link>
		<dc:creator>mk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60332</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always wondered how waiters decide where to place the check when the dining duo is same-sex. Yeah, the check in the middle would be the most obvious solution, but I find that when I&#039;m out with my girlfriend waiters overwhelmingly slide it in my direction. It always pisses said ladyfriend off--I guess she thinks they&#039;re somehow assessing our finances or power dynamic in some weird superficial way. I just find it funny, since I&#039;m often broke and she often pays. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always wondered how waiters decide where to place the check when the dining duo is same-sex. Yeah, the check in the middle would be the most obvious solution, but I find that when I&#8217;m out with my girlfriend waiters overwhelmingly slide it in my direction. It always pisses said ladyfriend off&#8211;I guess she thinks they&#8217;re somehow assessing our finances or power dynamic in some weird superficial way. I just find it funny, since I&#8217;m often broke and she often pays.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kaethe</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60327</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaethe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/08/17/the-gendered-menu/#comment-60327</guid>
		<description>Miss Robyn, perhaps it should be noted that the tradition has always been for the person who makes the invitation and is hosting to pay.  Expecting a man to always pay because men earn more &lt;strong&gt;on average &lt;/strong&gt;is as foolishly sexist as expecting a woman to suck at a sport because women &lt;strong&gt;on average&lt;/strong&gt; are not as large or as strong as men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miss Robyn, perhaps it should be noted that the tradition has always been for the person who makes the invitation and is hosting to pay.  Expecting a man to always pay because men earn more <strong>on average </strong>is as foolishly sexist as expecting a woman to suck at a sport because women <strong>on average</strong> are not as large or as strong as men.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic
Page Caching using disk: basic
Database Caching 16/21 queries in 0.032 seconds using disk: basic

Served from: www.feministe.us @ 2012-02-10 04:28:28 -->
