From a comment Lindsey made here, and from stuff pachacutec is typing over at mydd I realize that this entire thing is being talking pointed somewhere behind the scenes.

The talking points seem to consist of… Liza and Jane have a prior history (we all know about the stuff with the blackface photo) that somehow involves … well I’ll just post what pach is saying:

Liza and some others have had it in for Jane from the get, because back in the day, before FDL was on anyone’s radar, Jane refused to take part in a coalition of attacks by women bloggers on Markos and Atrios, calling them sexist and demanding – DEMANDING – links and attention.

I don’t know if that was the pie fight or the “where are the women writers?” thing or what, not having been involved in either one of those events (except I was at bootrib when the flight from kos happened), and paying scant attention.

He’s saying a lot of even more informative (as to their thinking) on that thread about sour grapes and people destroying the progressive movement by going after FDL and , well… :

There are very good people who are held hostage to fear by people like Lies-a who play the racism/sexism/resentment/smear card to get attention, destructively.

I’m pretty sure this at least partially explains the almost total silence on the subject, among the white blogosphere. With a few, very notable exceptions.

I was amused earlier, watching all the silly missteps that were being taken to contain this mess, but this… this is doing… has done incalculable harm. There are many more posts and comments saying basically the same things as that througout the um… colorful blogosphere.

You know, I very rarely use terms like “the white blogosphere”… in fact, before this I am not sure when I’ve ever used that term. I never really saw a need to.. In all my time online, from the early 90s on, I’ve been involved in irc chats, business ventures, blog communities, all sorts of things with people. Maybe I’ve just been lucky that way, but my online path has always been full of people of all ethnicities, from all different countries and cultures and I was just one more voice in that mix… while the default thought (as I mentioned before) was that everyone was white, in reality there was and is definitely a mosaic.

Now though… and it may just be that I’m slow :)… I and others have been made painfully aware that there is indeed a white blogosphere, and that except for those few notable exceptions, it is an extremely cliquey one. Now, you may say… “Nanette, you are old(ish), you’ve lived all your life in the US and you are just now finding this out?”

Well, no. Lessons learned at a very young age. But I’m ever optimistic :). Okay, make that sometimes.

To reduce all this… all the words written by all the people who took one look at the racist code language used in that FDL post and thought… “my god, what decade are we in? This is unacceptable, especially from a site like this.” … to reduce the memories words such as those evoke in people who have been living this stuff all their lives, to reduce the pain of some who thought that they too were part of a “progressive activist community”, to reduce the anger some felt at having their concerns summarily dismissed with an airy wave of “you just don’t get it”…

To squinch up all that and try and stuff it into a box of a “personal tiff” or “prior history between Liza and Jane and people are being drawn into the side of evil by Liza’s lies”, or whatever the nonsense is, is just unimaginably arrogant and stupid.

I don’t even know Liza. Or Jane Hampsher. Didn’t know Jane didn’t attack Atrios and Kos, didn’t know (still don’t) Liza did, don’t know who the others are he is talking about. I don’t have sour grapes, no desire to be Democratic operative, or to be a power in the political blosgosphere and have lunch with politicians. And I don’t think I’m alone in that. It takes living and operating in a very small circle to think that any of that stuff has any bearing on what is going on with most people.

But… the result is The Silence. And it’s The Silence that is being heard loud and clear… because I, at least, know that many of those who have not publically spoken out know those were racist code words. I’ve seen some of these same people slice and dice in arguments about white privilege, about racism, about code language, about all that stuff. Others have mentioned that as well.

So… what the “white blogosphere” is apparently hearing is … well all the stuff I mentioned above…. but obviously not the stuff the “colorful blogosphere” has been saying.

And what many in the “colorful blogosphere” are hearing is… well, except for those few exceptions (there are probably some I’ve missed), silence. And in that silence, loud and clear… “When push comes to shove…we will not stand with you” – completely destroying the trust many had built up.

Incalculable and, quite likely, irrevocable harm.

All that said, the racial make-up of this event is deeply troubling.

You know… personally, I find that the least troubling thing about all of this. Things happen *shrug*. Even when one is trying their hardest, when you think every little i is dotted and every t is crossed, sometimes all it takes is for one small thing to get out of place and the whole thing comes tumbling down. Anyone who has planned projects, run a business, tried to have an event (even a kids birthday party!) or anything like this recognizes this.

Sure more effort could have been made, (and as for He didn’t want to risk inviting someone iffy to a close personal meeting with the President. , may I just take a minute to say “Bwaahahaha”? )

Ahem… okay, back to my point.

Where the problems came in, in my personal opinion, was in the aftermath. I really have no idea what these people where thinking. What could have been a small blip, if that, was allowed to escalate into a major blowout – fueled greatly by the efforts of the “leaders of the blogosphere”, either through their actions or their inactions. The original decision to just… not say anything. And the decisions to, when someone did mention the matter, justify and then attack, attack, attack. And then silence, or joining in, about the attacks and all that’s followed from it.

Absolutely absurd, especially from a group of people who want others to consider them leaders, politically astute, movers and shakers and so on. At this point, I’m waiting, torn between appalled fascination and amusement, wondering… what will they do next?? Maybe call people attempting to engage them in discussion and who disagree with them “low-rent race baiters” while deleting their comments? LOL, surely “poverty pimps” can’t be far behind.

I don’t want to get too redundant, but man… it’s a really good thing that their value at raising money for politiicans is so very well displayed, because at this point, if I was a politician… well…

Anyway, Daou is taking some heat and will no doubt learn from that, but I don’t think he is the main target of ire, by a long stretch. I could be wrong, though.

There is lots of stuff to talk about, as you say, and I hope people do begin to. Some already are, others are in their corners and won’t come out… and that’s okay too, really.

But I talked to Peter about this today, and he clarified a few things that are worth sharing. First, as has been established, he originally invited, I think, 4 or 5 bloggers of color out of 14 or 15 invitees, which is pretty good, especially considering the racial make-up of America in general, and of the blogosphere in particular. He also had a fair number of women there — I believe more than half the participants are female. And while there are many, many women bloggers, men certainly outnumber women when it comes to well-known political blogs (why they outnumber women is another issue altogether). That should be applauded. When the bloggers he invited couldn’t come, he had to find other bloggers, and fast — he was on a time schedule, and simply didn’t have days and days to put together a list. And while he wasn’t the one who came up with the final list — he was making suggestions, most or all of which were excepted — he knew that the people he picked to come would reflect directly on him, in his professional capacity. Because of that, he only wanted to invite people who he had met in person. Which, in a lot of ways, is fair — the internet is a big place, and someone who seems completely normal online might be a total nut in person. He didn’t want to risk inviting someone iffy to a close personal meeting with the President.

All that said, the racial make-up of this event is deeply troubling. And we absolutely need to talk about it. But I’m finding the conversation really frustrating. We could be talking about why bloggers of color aren’t taken as seriously as white bloggers; why bloggers of color aren’t able to attend these kinds of events when they are invited; why meatspace networking is so dominated by white bloggers. Instead, people like TRex post ridiculous attacks. People elsewhere (not here, as far as I’ve seen) accuse Peter Daou of being racist. The whole thing just feels like a missed opportunity.

He’s part of the kos/fdl/mydd etc power structure, and I think he invaluable to them when one of them pulls boneheaded stuff like this that either is or can be interpreted as racist/racially insensitive etc, etc, by posting something that either supports/exonerates or “explains” them. This gives people a “see? Black Person said this!” thing to point to.

At least, this has been my (possibly erroneous) impression over time. Mind you, he also is the one that highlighted Liza’s post on the original photo issue, giving it much wider audience than it would have gotten without that. Maybe he is making amends now, pointing out Hamsher’s “power” and how those who oppose her (NARAL in this instance) should watch out, or whatever all that stuff was he had there. Who knows.

Interesting post and thread at ace of spades. They are of course quite gleeful to see the left engaging in this conversation, but that’s only to be expected. Also interesting was their discussion of the various blog modes and methods of garnering and moving traffic, etc. I didn’t look too much at that, but might go back to it and do some research on that particular topic.

It does appears they have become so enamoured of their little taste of power that they are going to (just like politicians and other assorted beauracrats) circle the wagons and protect their turf.

Heh. Read this… I must admit I had tears coming out of my eyes from laughing so hard… but then again, talk about poisoning the water. I’d say that that post pretty much ensures that any black/brown/etc bloggers that are included at future events with politicians, at yearly kos, added to existing blog community structures, and so on will be seen as tokens and affirmative action bloggers, getting their hand out… er… up, from the “leaders of the blogosphere”.

I’m not discouraged, really. It has been very interesting watching the intersections of power on blogs, who has decided who has it, what people’s criteria is for it, who will stand up to it, who will stand up for whom, racism and all sorts of things. It’s been a very instructive time. The more things change, and all that.

zuzu:

Incidentally, I exchanged a few emails with Peter Daou this weekend about my posts, and while our discussion was off the record, I am encouraged that he will find a constructive way to deal with the issues raised by this whole kerfuffle.

Good news, and good luck to him. He’s going to need it ;)

As a white person who has many times tried to call other white people on their racism, I can tell you that it will not be easy for anyone to broach this with fdl. Because so many are afraid of being “exiled” I think it will take a couple of very “big” guns to get Jane and Christy (and as they both own the blog, they are both responsible) to fess up and make amends. Even that is not likely.

It does appears they have become so enamoured of their little taste of power that they are going to (just like politicians and other assorted beauracrats) circle the wagons and protect their turf. But at some point they are going to have to realize that if they don’t address this now, it will rear its head again, likely in a much uglier way. In the meantime, it is beginning to look like the msm criticism of the left blogosphere being mob-like isn’t so far-fetched.

Also it is worth noting that the Anchoress and the Ace of Spades have posted about this. The comments are worth reading.

And I am just blown away that just yesterday that Steve Gilliard, of all people, saw fit to post an entire post (a lame one at that) by TRex on his blog. Was that his way of signalling FDL that he wanted to continue with his guest posting gigs? So he doesn’t schmooz with pols, but he can hang out at a Starbucks on Columbus Circle while Jane blogs about their little meeting (and I will bet dollars to donuts that she told him why she was in NYC).

All. Very. Discouraging.

Unless it’s simply easier to deal with the issue of Althouse and Jessica’s breasts because it confirms everything we ever thought about wingnuts, while the issue of TRex and Liza is too uncomfortable to confront.

I think that’s a big part of it. Althouse is officially an enemy, so it’s fun to call her out. If some purported progressive had said the same thing about Jessica, Jessican and her defenders be called a whiner for protesting, too. There wouldn’t be the same racist vitriol, but peopel wouldn’t be jumping to her defense. These folks believe in supporting people, not principles. Sexism is bad, as long as it’s their sexism. Racism is no big deal as long as it’s our racism. The bottom line, for them, is us v. them. And if you dare to criticize “us,” you’re automatically slotted in the “them” category, even if you’ve previously thought of yourself as belonging to “us.”

Christ, why doesn’t he just threaten her outright and have done with it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s the internet, but in real life….?! So if you dare go out in public with your boobs on you’re a whore, and if you dare question a man, oh, God, you’re….an uppity whore. And is one of these people are the left? And it’s the guy? Yeah, sure he is.

What’s worse, he went onto several blogs prior to posting and told Liza that he was going to make her a star. Some people tried to convince him otherwise, but he was determined. And that was *before* we knew what ugliness there was going to be in the post.

He’s also appeared in comments to smaller, POC-run blogs commenting on his post, like Republic of T, in which he told Terrance to quit “whining” about the issue. Terrance doesn’t whine.

Someone else pointed out that he stopped defending his “betters” comments on the FDL thread once called out by Lindsay Beyerstein and some other (white) bloggers with bigger readerships. I note that he did not come here to defend his comments and tell me to quit whining.

Hanna, thank you. I’m still wondering why there have been so few posts about this in higher-traffic blogs. Unless it’s simply easier to deal with the issue of Althouse and Jessica’s breasts because it confirms everything we ever thought about wingnuts, while the issue of TRex and Liza is too uncomfortable to confront.

Incidentally, I exchanged a few emails with Peter Daou this weekend about my posts, and while our discussion was off the record, I am encouraged that he will find a constructive way to deal with the issues raised by this whole kerfuffle.

Yes, a community of sorts does seem to exist among blogs, bloggers and posters, but a good community, just like any relationship has to have a core of honesty and trust. Honesty to tell it like it is and call someone out when they tromp on you and trust to know you can without being accussed of breaking teh wonderful silence.

Silence breeds complicity.

White people for far too long have been complicit in their denail of their own racist indoctrination. That denial requires they remain silent out of fear of possibly exposing the sin they truly hate but can’t seem to shake.

They won’t shake it until first they come to recognize its there and that change can take place among the white community, on its own. But honest dialogue must begin which requires listening and acknowledgement.

Fear to make acknowledgement, to come out so to speak, only assists those groups that profit from the spoils of racism, many of which are those very white bloggers.

A kick in the pants can be a good thing. That sleeping dog has got to get up and get to work cause the herd is running from the true goal of progressives.

Those flaws need to be addressed by Firedoglake. They currently aren’t. Real heartfelt apologies need to be made. Attitudes need to be adjusted. All of it will make Firedoglake an even better blog.

Women bloggers didn’t become A-listers because the ones whom did so played nice and waited patiently for someone to notice them. We all agitated, argued, demanded and fought for the places that many women A-listers now enjoy. Places they should have been by their own merit but were denied because of institutionalized sexism.

Harsh words were spoken and collective action was taken.

But that’s two separate issues. Both of which need to change.

I think a good beginning would be an apology from Firedoglake and it’s pretty clear that no apology is forthcoming without some peer pressure. The argument that the right wing is going to use this against us I do not believe to be valid. Whenever they want an example of left-wing racism all they need to do is go to Firedoglake right now and find it. They can then point out that it went by almost entirely unchallenged (because those who challenged it on Firedoglake’s comments section had their comments deleted). So, it’s already an issue for the right wing to pick up and use against us if they want to.

We can save ourselves from ourselves if we want to. By apologizing and making amends. The sooner the better.

If Firedoglake wants to kick and scream and deny any wrongdoing, all the more reason for bloggers of stature to speak up to them. Do it privately if you think that will work better, but Firedoglake needs to apologize publicly.

Pretending this didn’t happen isn’t an option. It did happen and the public record is right there on Firedoglake for anyone to pick up on.

It doesn’t need to be a flamewar or a blogwar. However it comes about, though, it needs to come about. Our best chance lies with the white bloggers who have the stature to stand up to Firedoglake and tell them what they’ve done wrong and what to do about it.

If they let us down, though, then we have no choice but to continue to bring up white blogger hypocrisy. Is hypocrisy any less vile when it comes from the left?

For me, personally, it is more vile and repugnant.

How are we going to do this? Someone (several someones) need to step up. The rest of us can be supportive. What can we do to help you step up and do what’s right?

Right now, Zuzu’s out there by herself. Are we supporting you well, Zuzu?

What can we do to make it easier for others?

How can we approach Mahablog about the terrible things she’s said?

I’ve been out of ideas here for a long time, I didn’t wake up that day almost a week ago prepared for what was going to happen and I’m no less prepared now. I imagine not many of us are. But together we are strong and we are worthy of respect and we can help to heal these grievous wounds.

I can’t thank you enough, Zuzu, for starting this post and pointing the spotlight on the ugliness.

Love,

Hanna