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	<title>Comments on: The Persistent Undesirable</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:01:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: somabergeron</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-68004</link>
		<dc:creator>somabergeron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-68004</guid>
		<description>ahh the Utilikilt. My SO just got one and is crazy about it... He enjoys the subtle crossing the gendered and &#039;normal&#039; clothing  boundary (since he has job-prospective pressures that don&#039;t allow him to get tattoo&#039;d or have visible piercings) and the attention he gets as much as the unconstrictedness of the Utilikilt. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ahh the Utilikilt. My SO just got one and is crazy about it&#8230; He enjoys the subtle crossing the gendered and &#8216;normal&#8217; clothing  boundary (since he has job-prospective pressures that don&#8217;t allow him to get tattoo&#8217;d or have visible piercings) and the attention he gets as much as the unconstrictedness of the Utilikilt.</p>
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		<title>By: shannon</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67974</link>
		<dc:creator>shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 00:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67974</guid>
		<description>It probably was, but I thought skirt and thought it to this day</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It probably was, but I thought skirt and thought it to this day</p>
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		<title>By: Erin M</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67969</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 23:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67969</guid>
		<description>Shannon, sounds like a kilt to me.  (See link in comment #9 above)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shannon, sounds like a kilt to me.  (See link in comment #9 above)</p>
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		<title>By: shannon</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67965</link>
		<dc:creator>shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 23:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67965</guid>
		<description>In Atlanta GA I went into an independant bookstore(Eagle Eye I believe) and I saw a man wearing what looked like a knee length pleated leather skirt. I have to admit that I think my ankle length canvas skirt is more masculine somehow. Maybe it&#039;s the length and lack of pleats. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Atlanta GA I went into an independant bookstore(Eagle Eye I believe) and I saw a man wearing what looked like a knee length pleated leather skirt. I have to admit that I think my ankle length canvas skirt is more masculine somehow. Maybe it&#8217;s the length and lack of pleats.</p>
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		<title>By: Grog</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67958</link>
		<dc:creator>Grog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67958</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;The reason I focus on the passing element is due in large part to some of my own insecurity. What I see in the mirror means as much to me as how the people around me react on a lot of days.&lt;/em&gt;

Passing seems to come as much from within as from external validation.  {e.g.  not getting &quot;hairy eyeball&quot; inspections from others}

I also suspect that it creates a &quot;tangible&quot; that you can focus on and to some extent distract yourself from trying to guess how random people are perceiving you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The reason I focus on the passing element is due in large part to some of my own insecurity. What I see in the mirror means as much to me as how the people around me react on a lot of days.</em></p>
<p>Passing seems to come as much from within as from external validation.  {e.g.  not getting &#8220;hairy eyeball&#8221; inspections from others}</p>
<p>I also suspect that it creates a &#8220;tangible&#8221; that you can focus on and to some extent distract yourself from trying to guess how random people are perceiving you.</p>
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		<title>By: Sabrina Star</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67930</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabrina Star</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67930</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve started referring to this as &quot;cisgender gaze.&quot;  I can&#039;t even watch movies or documentaries about transsexuals anymore because they ALL have these transgender money shot scenes depicting transsexuality as a disguise, sending the message that &lt;em&gt;&quot;underneath it all&quot;&lt;/em&gt; transwomen are &quot;really&quot; men and transmen are &quot;really&quot; women.

&quot;Wow, you had us all fooled, i would have never guessed!  How shocking.  How... titillating.&quot;    Because, really, that&#039;s what it&#039;s all about, isn&#039;t it?  How much of an exotic turn-on we are to cisgendered people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve started referring to this as &#8220;cisgender gaze.&#8221;  I can&#8217;t even watch movies or documentaries about transsexuals anymore because they ALL have these transgender money shot scenes depicting transsexuality as a disguise, sending the message that <em>&#8220;underneath it all&#8221;</em> transwomen are &#8220;really&#8221; men and transmen are &#8220;really&#8221; women.</p>
<p>&#8220;Wow, you had us all fooled, i would have never guessed!  How shocking.  How&#8230; titillating.&#8221;    Because, really, that&#8217;s what it&#8217;s all about, isn&#8217;t it?  How much of an exotic turn-on we are to cisgendered people.</p>
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		<title>By: Erin M</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67908</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 18:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67908</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I’ve noticed in these comments, that femme presentation is being defended as an issue of safety and / or providing more female signifiers. How about because it’s enjoyable?&lt;/i&gt;

Well, I admit there&#039;s an element of enjoyment, too, and in light of piny&#039;s comment I have to agree that we don&#039;t have the same incentives or disincentives to deal with.  The reason I focus on the passing element is due in large part to some of my own insecurity.  What I see in the mirror means as much to me as how the people around me react on a lot of days.  And while I&#039;ve no real doubt that I am trans, I do worry about being taken seriously.  

&lt;i&gt;I think that a sign that we have truly liberated ourselves from the binary will be that how one dresses is no longer a political statement or controversy.&lt;/i&gt;

Like I started out saying, I would love to be able to just proclaim my identity and have that be that.  I&#039;m not entirely sure if I&#039;m ready to toss the binary, but that&#039;s also because I have trouble seeing what things would look like beyond binary.  Another comfort zone to overcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I’ve noticed in these comments, that femme presentation is being defended as an issue of safety and / or providing more female signifiers. How about because it’s enjoyable?</i></p>
<p>Well, I admit there&#8217;s an element of enjoyment, too, and in light of piny&#8217;s comment I have to agree that we don&#8217;t have the same incentives or disincentives to deal with.  The reason I focus on the passing element is due in large part to some of my own insecurity.  What I see in the mirror means as much to me as how the people around me react on a lot of days.  And while I&#8217;ve no real doubt that I am trans, I do worry about being taken seriously.  </p>
<p><i>I think that a sign that we have truly liberated ourselves from the binary will be that how one dresses is no longer a political statement or controversy.</i></p>
<p>Like I started out saying, I would love to be able to just proclaim my identity and have that be that.  I&#8217;m not entirely sure if I&#8217;m ready to toss the binary, but that&#8217;s also because I have trouble seeing what things would look like beyond binary.  Another comfort zone to overcome.</p>
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		<title>By: sly civilian</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67888</link>
		<dc:creator>sly civilian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67888</guid>
		<description>i think what got me the most was the starkness of the transition.  while i had a pretty clear idea of constructed masculinity in my head previously, it just really caught me on that gut level that makes you go &quot;hunh.&quot;  Hunhs, properly translated, become blog entries, and the cycle of life continues.

back to the point, if an observer was to look at the average dude when he wakes up, especially if said dude does not sleep in male-coded clothing (or anything), and then compare to dude&#039;s out-the-door state, they&#039;re nothing alike.  The contours, the focal points, the damn near everything of masculine presentation changes.  Try the experiment with a consenting partner sometime.  Especially if you like, or are a dude. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think what got me the most was the starkness of the transition.  while i had a pretty clear idea of constructed masculinity in my head previously, it just really caught me on that gut level that makes you go &#8220;hunh.&#8221;  Hunhs, properly translated, become blog entries, and the cycle of life continues.</p>
<p>back to the point, if an observer was to look at the average dude when he wakes up, especially if said dude does not sleep in male-coded clothing (or anything), and then compare to dude&#8217;s out-the-door state, they&#8217;re nothing alike.  The contours, the focal points, the damn near everything of masculine presentation changes.  Try the experiment with a consenting partner sometime.  Especially if you like, or are a dude.</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67873</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67873</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The point about “more threatening” is another manifestation of this hierarchy: the underclass bears the burden of suspicion; they are the scapegoats for anxiety about the failure of all of us to perfectly perform our roles. This is part of the conflict with, “Yes, these are survival mechanisms,” one which goes beyond the willingness to admit that one is a collaborator. Rejecting femininity can mean agreeing not merely with feminists but with the dominant culture that femininity in all its details is a frivolous, artificial, superficial thing and that feminine women are frivolous, artificial, and shallow.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I *heart* Piny.

Will you write a book? Seriously? Because I think you are brilliant. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The point about “more threatening” is another manifestation of this hierarchy: the underclass bears the burden of suspicion; they are the scapegoats for anxiety about the failure of all of us to perfectly perform our roles. This is part of the conflict with, “Yes, these are survival mechanisms,” one which goes beyond the willingness to admit that one is a collaborator. Rejecting femininity can mean agreeing not merely with feminists but with the dominant culture that femininity in all its details is a frivolous, artificial, superficial thing and that feminine women are frivolous, artificial, and shallow.</p></blockquote>
<p>I *heart* Piny.</p>
<p>Will you write a book? Seriously? Because I think you are brilliant.</p>
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		<title>By: Maureen</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67865</link>
		<dc:creator>Maureen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/3919/#comment-67865</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve seen Utilikilts on the University of Chicago campus in summer (which tells you just how in touch I am with middle America&#039;s beliefs on gender roles).

I have a dream--that one day perfumes won&#039;t be gendered and clothing will only be gendered inasmuch as those lace pants have narrow hips and more room in the front inseam, these lace pants have wider hips and a relatively flat front, and that other pair have even wider hips, and a fourth pair have not-that-narrow hips but more room in the front inseam. That it will finally be possible for me to buy a well-fitting wool suit without spending more than $200, and a French-cuffed shirt that fits me both in the shoulders and hips (I have a hard time with &lt;em&gt;women&#039;&lt;/em&gt; fitted shirts). And that time spent on grooming will have zero correlation to gender or gender presentation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen Utilikilts on the University of Chicago campus in summer (which tells you just how in touch I am with middle America&#8217;s beliefs on gender roles).</p>
<p>I have a dream&#8211;that one day perfumes won&#8217;t be gendered and clothing will only be gendered inasmuch as those lace pants have narrow hips and more room in the front inseam, these lace pants have wider hips and a relatively flat front, and that other pair have even wider hips, and a fourth pair have not-that-narrow hips but more room in the front inseam. That it will finally be possible for me to buy a well-fitting wool suit without spending more than $200, and a French-cuffed shirt that fits me both in the shoulders and hips (I have a hard time with <em>women&#8217;</em> fitted shirts). And that time spent on grooming will have zero correlation to gender or gender presentation.</p>
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