But I don’t think a job is any more of an “excuse” to be hot than, say, a hobby. Take my hobby of drumming, for example. I want the chance to play in a band. Looks matter much less for a chick drummer than a chick singer (I’ve been both) but they do still matter for a drummer. So if I want the chance to play, I’ve gotta be hawt. Sure, I’m playing the game. I’m putting up with bar owners who sometimes treat me like crap. But I love to play, and that’s why I do it. Plus you never know, I could inspire more women and girls to pick up the sticks. And that would be a good thing.

Responding to Shannon by suggesting that she could be engaged in participating in some system of oppression that harms people with money? Fuck me dead. (harder and faster please.)

Oh, give me a fucking break. fSuuuuuure, I think she’s engaging in some kind of “system of oppression.” Look, Shannon made several comments about Jill “throwing away” money on waxing, wondering where she got the money for waxing, and assessing whether Jill needed to wax for her job. There’s really no point in bringing up Jill’s finances except to make Jill feel guilty for having money to “throw away” on waxing. And silencing her.

I’ve been reading various class-based analyses of this whole kerfuffle, and they basically boil down to “oh, those silly middle-class white women, arguing about trivial stuff again.” And the whole reason for that is that people are getting hung up on the specific processes that Jill’s been discussing and not on the fact that ALL women in this culture are under pressure to beautify themselves, regardless of class. They respond to this pressure in varying ways, according to their resources. Because the pressure is there, regardless of the resources available.

The pressure to take on feminine trappings is a constant. What varies by class is the specific trappings that one can afford. Lipstick is lipstick, whether it costs 99 cents from the drugstore or $36 from the Chanel counter. I’ve really been utterly mystified at this notion that’s been floating around out there that working-class women somehow are exempt from being subject to patriarchal beautification pressure just because they don’t have the cash to match the middle-class beauty standards.

Responding to Shannon by suggesting that she could be engaged in participating in some system of oppression that harms people with money? Fuck me dead. (harder and faster please.)

As I said elsewhere, I really could not care less how much fun people have in the name of feminism. Nice things that are joyful and beautiful — that is what we should all have. But we should want them for everyone, not just those who can afford them under the rules of the current game. Jill may not lead the charge in terms of feminist blogs that make clear they care about race and class issues, but she’s way far fucking ahead of the crowd and that counts in my book. She’ll actually *post* about poverty, etc. That’s what matters to me, not that she sports $100 shoes or spends money on pube fashion. And what matters to me is that she and piny have listened and made serious attempts to change things. Just the act of listening, in this situation when many non-mainstream feminists feel silenced and unheard, make acting like a human being nearly saint-like.

It’s pretty sad when you stop and think about it.

I understand more that you need to dress the part for working life. I would never wear a suit and tie (coming from a poverty background I hate the whole idea that uniforms exist that grant people instant power and respect) — except I am a young lawyer and I need to pick my battles.

But why compromise when it comes to the people in your life who are closest to you, who out of everyone else we expect to give us unconditional love? If we absolutely must have approval, why surround yourself with people who are going to enforce patriarchical norms that you comply with only because of overwhelming social power? Why even try to date people who are going to either grant or withhold recognition of your quality and worth based on the height of your heel or the impeccability of your makeup?

There are spaces in our lives where we aren’t completely determined by patriarchy, and within that space we can invent new ways of living. I think requiring support from those in our inner circles that is not conditioned on cosmetics is a humble start. There are genuinely caring people who can empathize with the bullshit we all put up with, and who have a sincere interest in unburdening ourselves from as much of it as we can. The more we put up with people who undervalue us (or have no idea what a proper way to value a person is) the more strength is given to patriarchy.

late to this, but: horse shit. it’s like playing the reverse racism card. doesn’t work that way for class, either.

And why is it okay for Shannon to demand to know how Jill affords bikini waxes when she doesn’t appear to question how other women afford spending the exact same amount on their hair? What is the point of that, other than shaming Jill?

The problem is not how Jill affords a particular bit of beautification, it’s that she feels pressure to beautify herself at all. She would feel the same pressure to beautify herself if she were on food stamps, she just wouldn’t be able to afford the same means of accomplishing that goal.

I think the relationship between class and femininity is actually kind of complicated, and I’d have to think about it a bit more to tease it out. I definitely think that a lot of Jill’s specific trappings of femininity are class-specific. (Mine, too, although I have to do some fudging to accomplish that, because I don’t have much money right now. For instance, I get my hair cut for free by students at a fancy salon. Ergo, expensive-looking hair that is, in fact, very cheap.) But I also agree that it’s a matter of the kind of femininity, rather than the extent. My grandmother, who is definitely working-class, considers herself middle-class in part because she doesn’t look “trashy.” “Trashy” isn’t a matter of not wearing makeup: it’s wearing the wrong makeup. (And my grandmother wears a ton of makeup, but it’s the right kind of makeup.) My grandmother has achieved a kind of respectability because she’s mastered a feminine presentation that is perceived as middle-class. That takes a lot of effort, and it has tangible rewards. But I don’t think she necessarily puts in more work than working-class women who don’t present as middle-class.

What I do think is that I have a lot more options than my grandmother does. When push comes to shove, it matters a whole hell of a lot whether my grandmother presents as “trashy” or middle class. People who count are going to take me seriously because I have credentials. My grandmother has nothing to go on but her self-presentation. If I show up at the doctor in sweats and no makeup, the doctor will look at my chart and see that I’m a grad student at a prestigious university and talk to me like I have a brain, even though I’m a slob. If my grandmother does the same, the doctor will assume she’s stupid and make decisions for her. There’s not as much at stake for me.

That’s classism, too, as much as denigrating someone because they don’t have as much money as you do. And it’s every bit as counterproductive as arguing about what kind of shoes someone wears on the basis of class, as if your (general you) $100 Doc Martens are a more virtuous choice from the point of view of someone who has no shoes at all, than someone else’s $50 pair of marked-way-the-hell-down strappy Manolos.

late to this, but: horse shit. it’s like playing the reverse racism card. doesn’t work that way for class, either.