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	<title>Comments on: If you love seeing babies in the park, punish rape survivors</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:14:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bitter Scribe</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-68915</link>
		<dc:creator>Bitter Scribe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 04:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-68915</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m utterly baffled by this phrase, &quot;Abortion on demand.&quot; What the hell do these fools want? Abortion at random? By lottery?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m utterly baffled by this phrase, &#8220;Abortion on demand.&#8221; What the hell do these fools want? Abortion at random? By lottery?</p>
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		<title>By: twf</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67886</link>
		<dc:creator>twf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67886</guid>
		<description>I now understand that the purpose of my body is to produce cute babies for everybody else to look at.

On the topic of TV shows, I started watching Judging Amy in syndication a little while ago.  That show rocks and is incredibly feminist.  And when Amy, a single mother with lots of money, lots of family and other social support, and a strong interest in children, gets pregnant, she and her mother discuss what they&#039;re going to do about it.  They begin with the assumption that she&#039;ll have an abortion (though they don&#039;t use that word... too sensitive for network TV I guess) and move on from there.  She ends up deciding to continue the pregnancy, but it&#039;s made very clear that the characters consider abortion to be a completely ethical and logical choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I now understand that the purpose of my body is to produce cute babies for everybody else to look at.</p>
<p>On the topic of TV shows, I started watching Judging Amy in syndication a little while ago.  That show rocks and is incredibly feminist.  And when Amy, a single mother with lots of money, lots of family and other social support, and a strong interest in children, gets pregnant, she and her mother discuss what they&#8217;re going to do about it.  They begin with the assumption that she&#8217;ll have an abortion (though they don&#8217;t use that word&#8230; too sensitive for network TV I guess) and move on from there.  She ends up deciding to continue the pregnancy, but it&#8217;s made very clear that the characters consider abortion to be a completely ethical and logical choice.</p>
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		<title>By: JJ</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67881</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67881</guid>
		<description>Coming from a pro-life family, I&#039;ve gotten the pleasure of reading several of their pamplets about why abortion should be illegal all the time.  Their reasons get even worse than these.  One said that conception from rape is impossible due to the trauma of the attack (therefore anyone claiming to need an abortion due to rape is a lying whore).  Another stated that aborting a &quot;baby&quot; that resulted from incest would get rid of any evidence of the incest.  Therefore one would be unable to stop the incest.  That pamplet went on to say that incest really isn&#039;t a problem anymore, because treatment is now available.  I&#039;m not making this shit up.  You can go on many &quot;Right to life&quot; websites and they have links to these brochures.  The references they use to back up these hideous statements are simply other anti-choice propaganda.  This isn&#039;t the shit they feed to the public...they know it would be torn apart.  It&#039;s to convince the people already on their side that women who get abortions are lying whores, to feed the hatred already there, to make them fight even harder to stop abortion.  These people are fucking evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coming from a pro-life family, I&#8217;ve gotten the pleasure of reading several of their pamplets about why abortion should be illegal all the time.  Their reasons get even worse than these.  One said that conception from rape is impossible due to the trauma of the attack (therefore anyone claiming to need an abortion due to rape is a lying whore).  Another stated that aborting a &#8220;baby&#8221; that resulted from incest would get rid of any evidence of the incest.  Therefore one would be unable to stop the incest.  That pamplet went on to say that incest really isn&#8217;t a problem anymore, because treatment is now available.  I&#8217;m not making this shit up.  You can go on many &#8220;Right to life&#8221; websites and they have links to these brochures.  The references they use to back up these hideous statements are simply other anti-choice propaganda.  This isn&#8217;t the shit they feed to the public&#8230;they know it would be torn apart.  It&#8217;s to convince the people already on their side that women who get abortions are lying whores, to feed the hatred already there, to make them fight even harder to stop abortion.  These people are fucking evil.</p>
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		<title>By: Sally</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67859</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67859</guid>
		<description>Spoilers!  They&#039;re speculative, but if I&#039;m right, they&#039;re still spoilers!  Warning! Achtung!  Possibly spoilers ahead!  Or possibly just incorrect speculation, but since I don&#039;t know, it&#039;s best to put in a lot of text so no potential spoilers show up on the recent comments!  


Hmm.  I have taped all three episodes of Gilmore Girls and haven&#039;t watched my tapes yet, and you guys have totally spoiled it for me.  Assholes!  (Just joking.)  But seriously, if the pregnant character is Lane, I guess I wouldn&#039;t mind that nobody brought up abortion.  Lane grew up in a super-conservative Christian household, and she hasn&#039;t fully rejected the sexual morality with which she was raised.  That&#039;s why she chose not to have sex until she was married.  It seems possible to me that Rory, who knows Lane as well as anyone in the world knows Lane,  would know that Lane would never have an abortion.  That doesn&#039;t mean that Rory didn&#039;t think anyone in that situation should have an abortion, but that she was trying to do what would be helpful and appreciated by this particular friend.  

Now, if Paris got pregnant and nobody mentioned abortion, then I&#039;d be pissed off.  Because I don&#039;t think that Lane, the character whom we&#039;ve come to know over the past six years, would have an abortion, but I definitely think that Paris would.  

But also, I think a Lane-has-a-baby plot has the potential to be kind of subversive.  GG obsessives may remember that way back in season 1, Lane&#039;s mom and Lorelei had a heated discussion in which Mrs. Kim said that she didn&#039;t want Lane to end up like Lorelei, which is to say having a baby at 16.  And Lorelei said that that was something they could agree on.  Lorelei has always been completely upfront about the fact that having a baby that young was really, really hard.  So now Lane has done exactly what her mother wanted her to do: she stayed close to home instead of going away to college, she waited to have sex until she was married, she married young, she got pregnant.  If it turns out that doing it the Mrs. Kim way can lead to heartbreak and struggle, too, that kind of undercuts the true love waits message that conservative Christian girls like Lane get fed.  

(Or maybe Lane isn&#039;t the pregnant one, in which case I apologize.  But I hope she is, because I think that&#039;ll be interesting.) 

(And after I wrote that, I saw your post, Hugh Mannity.  That&#039;s a terrible story.  I&#039;m sorry you had to go through that.)  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spoilers!  They&#8217;re speculative, but if I&#8217;m right, they&#8217;re still spoilers!  Warning! Achtung!  Possibly spoilers ahead!  Or possibly just incorrect speculation, but since I don&#8217;t know, it&#8217;s best to put in a lot of text so no potential spoilers show up on the recent comments!  </p>
<p>Hmm.  I have taped all three episodes of Gilmore Girls and haven&#8217;t watched my tapes yet, and you guys have totally spoiled it for me.  Assholes!  (Just joking.)  But seriously, if the pregnant character is Lane, I guess I wouldn&#8217;t mind that nobody brought up abortion.  Lane grew up in a super-conservative Christian household, and she hasn&#8217;t fully rejected the sexual morality with which she was raised.  That&#8217;s why she chose not to have sex until she was married.  It seems possible to me that Rory, who knows Lane as well as anyone in the world knows Lane,  would know that Lane would never have an abortion.  That doesn&#8217;t mean that Rory didn&#8217;t think anyone in that situation should have an abortion, but that she was trying to do what would be helpful and appreciated by this particular friend.  </p>
<p>Now, if Paris got pregnant and nobody mentioned abortion, then I&#8217;d be pissed off.  Because I don&#8217;t think that Lane, the character whom we&#8217;ve come to know over the past six years, would have an abortion, but I definitely think that Paris would.  </p>
<p>But also, I think a Lane-has-a-baby plot has the potential to be kind of subversive.  GG obsessives may remember that way back in season 1, Lane&#8217;s mom and Lorelei had a heated discussion in which Mrs. Kim said that she didn&#8217;t want Lane to end up like Lorelei, which is to say having a baby at 16.  And Lorelei said that that was something they could agree on.  Lorelei has always been completely upfront about the fact that having a baby that young was really, really hard.  So now Lane has done exactly what her mother wanted her to do: she stayed close to home instead of going away to college, she waited to have sex until she was married, she married young, she got pregnant.  If it turns out that doing it the Mrs. Kim way can lead to heartbreak and struggle, too, that kind of undercuts the true love waits message that conservative Christian girls like Lane get fed.  </p>
<p>(Or maybe Lane isn&#8217;t the pregnant one, in which case I apologize.  But I hope she is, because I think that&#8217;ll be interesting.) </p>
<p>(And after I wrote that, I saw your post, Hugh Mannity.  That&#8217;s a terrible story.  I&#8217;m sorry you had to go through that.)</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Mannity</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67855</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Mannity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67855</guid>
		<description>Back in the dark days of the 1960s, I was raped and became pregnant. I was 17 and naive as so many of us were back then. Because I didn&#039;t report the rape, there was no &quot;evidence&quot;. The law in the UK at the time was that a woman could get an abortion if she was raped, a victim of incest or if her physical or mental health would be endangered. The woman had to be referred to both a psychiatrist and an OB/GYN by her family doctor and all 3 had to agree that she &quot;deserved&quot; the abortion. Both my family doctor and the OB/GYN I saw were in favor of &quot;abortion on demand&quot; (not the best way to describe not putting barriers between a woman and the abortion she needs,but it&#039;ll have to do). They didn&#039;t really care how or why I was pregnant, they wrote what was necessary on the paperwork.

The psychiatrist was a slightly different matter. He asked me several questions, I knew he was trying to get me to say something, but I wasn&#039;t sure what. Finally after circumnavigating several shrubberies, he asked: &quot;So, tell me, if you are obliged to continue with this pregancy, do you feel you will still have a life to live?&quot; Light dawned. &quot;No doctor. If I can&#039;t have an abortion, my life won&#039;t be worth living. I&#039;d kill myself.&quot; He did everything short of saying &quot;In order for me to sign off on the paperwork I have to have reason to believe you&#039;re suicidal. Give me that reason!&quot;

Of course, the problem with all those hoops to jump through, meant it was pretty late when I finally did get the abortion. 2nd trimester. Not fun. 

We have to fight this stuff. We&#039;ve got far too much to lose to go back to those days. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in the dark days of the 1960s, I was raped and became pregnant. I was 17 and naive as so many of us were back then. Because I didn&#8217;t report the rape, there was no &#8220;evidence&#8221;. The law in the UK at the time was that a woman could get an abortion if she was raped, a victim of incest or if her physical or mental health would be endangered. The woman had to be referred to both a psychiatrist and an OB/GYN by her family doctor and all 3 had to agree that she &#8220;deserved&#8221; the abortion. Both my family doctor and the OB/GYN I saw were in favor of &#8220;abortion on demand&#8221; (not the best way to describe not putting barriers between a woman and the abortion she needs,but it&#8217;ll have to do). They didn&#8217;t really care how or why I was pregnant, they wrote what was necessary on the paperwork.</p>
<p>The psychiatrist was a slightly different matter. He asked me several questions, I knew he was trying to get me to say something, but I wasn&#8217;t sure what. Finally after circumnavigating several shrubberies, he asked: &#8220;So, tell me, if you are obliged to continue with this pregancy, do you feel you will still have a life to live?&#8221; Light dawned. &#8220;No doctor. If I can&#8217;t have an abortion, my life won&#8217;t be worth living. I&#8217;d kill myself.&#8221; He did everything short of saying &#8220;In order for me to sign off on the paperwork I have to have reason to believe you&#8217;re suicidal. Give me that reason!&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course, the problem with all those hoops to jump through, meant it was pretty late when I finally did get the abortion. 2nd trimester. Not fun. </p>
<p>We have to fight this stuff. We&#8217;ve got far too much to lose to go back to those days.</p>
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		<title>By: ks</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67848</link>
		<dc:creator>ks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67848</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;RE: Gilmore Girls and unwanted pregnancy, I thought the same thing on Desperate Housewives when Gabrielle got pregnant. Her husband’s in prison, she doesn’t want a baby, she doesn’t want to be pregnant, she’s rich and could afford the medical procedure, and abortion is never brought up.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;ve never watched Gilmore Girls, but that was about the point when I stopped watching Desperate Housewives.  I swear, that was about the most unrealistic storyline ever, in a show filled with unrealistic storylines.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>RE: Gilmore Girls and unwanted pregnancy, I thought the same thing on Desperate Housewives when Gabrielle got pregnant. Her husband’s in prison, she doesn’t want a baby, she doesn’t want to be pregnant, she’s rich and could afford the medical procedure, and abortion is never brought up.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve never watched Gilmore Girls, but that was about the point when I stopped watching Desperate Housewives.  I swear, that was about the most unrealistic storyline ever, in a show filled with unrealistic storylines.</p>
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		<title>By: Technocracygirl</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67846</link>
		<dc:creator>Technocracygirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67846</guid>
		<description>Re: Gilmore Girls (which will probably include SPOILERS for last week&#039;s episode)

I&#039;m so glad that someone else had that thought too!  I was watching, and x says she&#039;s pregnant.  And immediately, my mind jumps to: Your relationship isn&#039;t the most stable in the world.  You&#039;re not making a whole lot of money.  Your dream job is potentially manageable with a two- or three-year-old; have you thought about how to deal with an infant?  Will Mom be the uber-babysitter?  Umm...why is abortion not even coming up in this conversation?

Unfortunately, I think the new writers are either going to go with &quot;Oh, look, the kyuuuuute baybee will make everything all better!&quot; or she&#039;ll have a convienient (yet heart-wrenching) miscarriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Gilmore Girls (which will probably include SPOILERS for last week&#8217;s episode)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m so glad that someone else had that thought too!  I was watching, and x says she&#8217;s pregnant.  And immediately, my mind jumps to: Your relationship isn&#8217;t the most stable in the world.  You&#8217;re not making a whole lot of money.  Your dream job is potentially manageable with a two- or three-year-old; have you thought about how to deal with an infant?  Will Mom be the uber-babysitter?  Umm&#8230;why is abortion not even coming up in this conversation?</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I think the new writers are either going to go with &#8220;Oh, look, the kyuuuuute baybee will make everything all better!&#8221; or she&#8217;ll have a convienient (yet heart-wrenching) miscarriage.</p>
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		<title>By: exangelena</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67810</link>
		<dc:creator>exangelena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 03:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67810</guid>
		<description>Hey Tapetum - for a stunning expose of the effects of chronic inbreeding check out the book &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Royal-Babylon-Alarming-History-European/dp/0767907558/sr=1-1/qid=1160538348/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-0928736-0035226?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Royal Babylon&lt;/a&gt;.  Truly astonishing ... And hopefully will wipe our minds clean of that disgusting justification :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Tapetum &#8211; for a stunning expose of the effects of chronic inbreeding check out the book <a HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Royal-Babylon-Alarming-History-European/dp/0767907558/sr=1-1/qid=1160538348/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-0928736-0035226?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books/" rel="nofollow">Royal Babylon</a>.  Truly astonishing &#8230; And hopefully will wipe our minds clean of that disgusting justification :)</p>
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		<title>By: zuzu</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67809</link>
		<dc:creator>zuzu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 03:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67809</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;RE: Gilmore Girls and unwanted pregnancy, I thought the same thing on Desperate Housewives when Gabrielle got pregnant. Her husband’s in prison, she doesn’t want a baby, she doesn’t want to be pregnant, she’s rich and could afford the medical procedure, and abortion is never brought up.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s like the only place you can get an abortion anymore is on HBO or SciFi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>RE: Gilmore Girls and unwanted pregnancy, I thought the same thing on Desperate Housewives when Gabrielle got pregnant. Her husband’s in prison, she doesn’t want a baby, she doesn’t want to be pregnant, she’s rich and could afford the medical procedure, and abortion is never brought up.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s like the only place you can get an abortion anymore is on HBO or SciFi.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan S.</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67808</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 03:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/10/if-you-love-seeing-babies-in-the-park-punish-rape-survivors/#comment-67808</guid>
		<description>&quot;I like my babies to be spreadable and served on a bagel, &quot;

wow.  All hail the Mighty Ponygirl!

And somebody bring me some babies and lox . . .

&quot;Hey everybody  Look over here! Babies!!  Cute gurgly babyporn!*  Aren&#039;t they adorable!!  Pay no attention to the actual women behind the curtain!

* In the same sense as kitty- or food-porn, of course.  And to make an almost entirely unrelated tangential comment off of Lizard&#039;s, it&#039;s a bad sign when you catch yourself referring to someone&#039;s infant as such a cute kit - I mean baby!  
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I like my babies to be spreadable and served on a bagel, &#8221;</p>
<p>wow.  All hail the Mighty Ponygirl!</p>
<p>And somebody bring me some babies and lox . . .</p>
<p>&#8220;Hey everybody  Look over here! Babies!!  Cute gurgly babyporn!*  Aren&#8217;t they adorable!!  Pay no attention to the actual women behind the curtain!</p>
<p>* In the same sense as kitty- or food-porn, of course.  And to make an almost entirely unrelated tangential comment off of Lizard&#8217;s, it&#8217;s a bad sign when you catch yourself referring to someone&#8217;s infant as such a cute kit &#8211; I mean baby!</p>
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