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	<title>Comments on: Note to Lauren: DTMFA</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:13:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: sallyjrw</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68501</link>
		<dc:creator>sallyjrw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68501</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never seen Paris Hilton&#039;s movie, but last year I happened to be at &lt;a href=&quot;http://adult.dvdempire.com/Exec/v1_item.asp?userid=99365021599249&amp;item_id=605269&amp;tab=2&amp;date=390036651967593#topoftabs&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;adult.dvdempire.com&lt;/a&gt;  when I noticed they had it.  I was looking at the comments for it and saw this:

&lt;em&gt;It&#039;s too bad she takes a shot to the chest in the end, as a facial would have made this home porno even hotter.&lt;/em&gt;

which I found distasteful at the time.  Come on the body is different than come on the face (and apparently I&#039;m not the only one who feels that way).  I&#039;ve had both done and felt much worse after come on the face.  I found this comment to be so disturbing that I had to talk to my husband to make sure not all men are like that.

Just thought I would clarify that while Keith Olbermann is making cracks about come on Paris Hilton&#039;s face there&#039;s no such video showing such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never seen Paris Hilton&#8217;s movie, but last year I happened to be at <a href="http://adult.dvdempire.com/Exec/v1_item.asp?userid=99365021599249&amp;item_id=605269&amp;tab=2&amp;date=390036651967593#topoftabs" rel="nofollow">adult.dvdempire.com</a>  when I noticed they had it.  I was looking at the comments for it and saw this:</p>
<p><em>It&#8217;s too bad she takes a shot to the chest in the end, as a facial would have made this home porno even hotter.</em></p>
<p>which I found distasteful at the time.  Come on the body is different than come on the face (and apparently I&#8217;m not the only one who feels that way).  I&#8217;ve had both done and felt much worse after come on the face.  I found this comment to be so disturbing that I had to talk to my husband to make sure not all men are like that.</p>
<p>Just thought I would clarify that while Keith Olbermann is making cracks about come on Paris Hilton&#8217;s face there&#8217;s no such video showing such.</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68238</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68238</guid>
		<description>I wish you would copy your post (though not necessarily the debate in the comments; stuff that&#039;s in line w/ your message doesn&#039;t add anything critical, and stuff that isn&#039;t is merely confusing) and send it in to Keith Olbermann.

I was looking to send it on, but I can&#039;t find any contact information from him.

Anyway, the note I&#039;d have attached is, &quot;Dear Mr. Olbermann,
Your requests for apologies for mean and hurtful words are eloquent.  You always understand that insults don&#039;t only hurt those they were directed at, but that insults create an ENVIRONMENT that hurts even more people.

&quot;However, everyone makes mistakes, and this time, I feel that you have said something--will hurt more than the one person you insulted.  The way you described being punched in the face versus being come upon while engaging in consensual sex is very dangerous.  It disintegrates boundaries between what &quot;good men&quot; do and what &quot;bad men&quot; do.  By implying that an act done by a man to a woman can only have one version--the bad version--you confuse people who look at their own consensual face-dripping incidents and start to see themselves as &quot;naughty,&quot; yet since they did it without any conscience pangs, it must be a natural part of them.  And once you make a person feel that all of a certain type of behavior that they were doing one form of anyway is bad, then they&#039;re not going to avoid it to be good:  you simply risk pushing people over to not caring to avoid the truly bad behavior!

I&#039;ve done a terrible job adding to this beautiful blog entry, but please see blogger &quot;Jill&#039;s&quot; comments on:
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/

I believe--I truly believe after watching your special commentaries about the importance of avoiding conditioning people to think badly--that you&#039;ll side with Ms. Jill when you read her work.

Thank you,
Katie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish you would copy your post (though not necessarily the debate in the comments; stuff that&#8217;s in line w/ your message doesn&#8217;t add anything critical, and stuff that isn&#8217;t is merely confusing) and send it in to Keith Olbermann.</p>
<p>I was looking to send it on, but I can&#8217;t find any contact information from him.</p>
<p>Anyway, the note I&#8217;d have attached is, &#8220;Dear Mr. Olbermann,<br />
Your requests for apologies for mean and hurtful words are eloquent.  You always understand that insults don&#8217;t only hurt those they were directed at, but that insults create an ENVIRONMENT that hurts even more people.</p>
<p>&#8220;However, everyone makes mistakes, and this time, I feel that you have said something&#8211;will hurt more than the one person you insulted.  The way you described being punched in the face versus being come upon while engaging in consensual sex is very dangerous.  It disintegrates boundaries between what &#8220;good men&#8221; do and what &#8220;bad men&#8221; do.  By implying that an act done by a man to a woman can only have one version&#8211;the bad version&#8211;you confuse people who look at their own consensual face-dripping incidents and start to see themselves as &#8220;naughty,&#8221; yet since they did it without any conscience pangs, it must be a natural part of them.  And once you make a person feel that all of a certain type of behavior that they were doing one form of anyway is bad, then they&#8217;re not going to avoid it to be good:  you simply risk pushing people over to not caring to avoid the truly bad behavior!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve done a terrible job adding to this beautiful blog entry, but please see blogger &#8220;Jill&#8217;s&#8221; comments on:<br />
<a href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/" rel="nofollow">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/</a></p>
<p>I believe&#8211;I truly believe after watching your special commentaries about the importance of avoiding conditioning people to think badly&#8211;that you&#8217;ll side with Ms. Jill when you read her work.</p>
<p>Thank you,<br />
Katie</p>
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		<title>By: eg</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68186</link>
		<dc:creator>eg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68186</guid>
		<description>When straight women talk about how thankful they were of a boyfriend who didn&#039;t watch porn or who were actually *gasp* FEMINISTS, it kind of makes my stomach turn. 
The easiest way into a feminist&#039;s heart for men is saying they are anti-porn, anti-sex industry, gender/sexuality conscious, and above all else, feminists themselves. And why wouldn&#039;t men want to go for feminists? Intelligent, beautiful, strong, independent women...just say the right words. and you&#039;re in.
This is not not say there are not feminist men, feminist-supportive men, or great men out there. It&#039;s just a bit disappointing to witness so many feminist women question whether they are &quot;really&quot; feminists or not (see Feministe or iblamethepatriarchy blogs), and then baby and applaud whenever a straight guy comes in saying he&#039;s down for the feminist cause. We are so infamous for babying men and many progressive men are infamous for always laid by the hot feminists. 

Honestly, I&#039;d rather be punched in the face than being cum on the face by a guy.
  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When straight women talk about how thankful they were of a boyfriend who didn&#8217;t watch porn or who were actually *gasp* FEMINISTS, it kind of makes my stomach turn.<br />
The easiest way into a feminist&#8217;s heart for men is saying they are anti-porn, anti-sex industry, gender/sexuality conscious, and above all else, feminists themselves. And why wouldn&#8217;t men want to go for feminists? Intelligent, beautiful, strong, independent women&#8230;just say the right words. and you&#8217;re in.<br />
This is not not say there are not feminist men, feminist-supportive men, or great men out there. It&#8217;s just a bit disappointing to witness so many feminist women question whether they are &#8220;really&#8221; feminists or not (see Feministe or iblamethepatriarchy blogs), and then baby and applaud whenever a straight guy comes in saying he&#8217;s down for the feminist cause. We are so infamous for babying men and many progressive men are infamous for always laid by the hot feminists. </p>
<p>Honestly, I&#8217;d rather be punched in the face than being cum on the face by a guy.</p>
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		<title>By: WyldOne</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68066</link>
		<dc:creator>WyldOne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68066</guid>
		<description>Ugh I hate cable news.

Can&#039;t we just dump ALL of &#039;em and start over? 

Maybe then we&#039;ll actually get some relevant information and some depth to our news.

Okay, maybe that second wish is asking for too much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh I hate cable news.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t we just dump ALL of &#8216;em and start over? </p>
<p>Maybe then we&#8217;ll actually get some relevant information and some depth to our news.</p>
<p>Okay, maybe that second wish is asking for too much.</p>
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		<title>By: Lya Kahlo</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68058</link>
		<dc:creator>Lya Kahlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 15:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68058</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And I say this as someone who’s noticed a definite uptick in requests to come on my face in recent years.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

/restarting derail

As have I.  And my current bf asked after he started watching porn.  Monkey see, monkey want to do.  I&#039;ve since banned porn from the house. (not because of this instance alone)


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And I say this as someone who’s noticed a definite uptick in requests to come on my face in recent years.</p></blockquote>
<p>/restarting derail</p>
<p>As have I.  And my current bf asked after he started watching porn.  Monkey see, monkey want to do.  I&#8217;ve since banned porn from the house. (not because of this instance alone)</p>
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		<title>By: the oh zone
 &#187; good times with Kim Jong Il and as always, women&#8217;s bodies.</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68048</link>
		<dc:creator>the oh zone
 &#187; good times with Kim Jong Il and as always, women&#8217;s bodies.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68048</guid>
		<description>[...] Worst Person in the World Today&#8221; title is that hyperbolic.  via feministing. plus interesting discussion on feministe.                       [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Worst Person in the World Today&#8221; title is that hyperbolic.  via feministing. plus interesting discussion on feministe.                       [...]</p>
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		<title>By: raging red</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68045</link>
		<dc:creator>raging red</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68045</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But hey, his bosses are forcing him! He’s powerless to resist! In all other arenas, he is to be revered as the lone rebel voice in the wilderness, but when it comes to Lindsay’s undies and Sharon’s aging privates, he’s the victim!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I find it really hard to believe that anyone forces him to cover celebrity news.  He&#039;s allowed to say whatever he wants on political issues and perpetually mock Bill O&#039;Reilly (who deserves nothing but mocking), but he&#039;s &lt;em&gt;forced&lt;/em&gt; to do stories about Lindsay Lohan and Sharon Stone?  Yeah, right.

&lt;blockquote&gt;He is doing important work and making sure he isn’t replaced by some right-wing tool like Tucker Carlson or Joe Scarborough is more important than ideological purity right now.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

See, the problem is, it&#039;s &lt;em&gt;always&lt;/em&gt; &quot;right now.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But hey, his bosses are forcing him! He’s powerless to resist! In all other arenas, he is to be revered as the lone rebel voice in the wilderness, but when it comes to Lindsay’s undies and Sharon’s aging privates, he’s the victim!</p></blockquote>
<p>I find it really hard to believe that anyone forces him to cover celebrity news.  He&#8217;s allowed to say whatever he wants on political issues and perpetually mock Bill O&#8217;Reilly (who deserves nothing but mocking), but he&#8217;s <em>forced</em> to do stories about Lindsay Lohan and Sharon Stone?  Yeah, right.</p>
<blockquote><p>He is doing important work and making sure he isn’t replaced by some right-wing tool like Tucker Carlson or Joe Scarborough is more important than ideological purity right now.</p></blockquote>
<p>See, the problem is, it&#8217;s <em>always</em> &#8220;right now.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68040</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68040</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t say that their sexual dynamics revolve around a woman substitute, any more than I said that hetero sexual dynamics revolve around money shots. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t say that their sexual dynamics revolve around a woman substitute, any more than I said that hetero sexual dynamics revolve around money shots.</p>
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		<title>By: Frumious B</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68039</link>
		<dc:creator>Frumious B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68039</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And I say this as someone who’s noticed a definite uptick in requests to come on my face in recent years.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

\start_{derail}
no way, really?  have other single women noticed this?  I&#039;ve never had anyone ask me for that, but I&#039;ve been in longterm, monogamous, mostly porn-free relationships for the last several years, so I&#039;ve missed out on recent sexual trends. (thank dog)
\end_{derail}</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And I say this as someone who’s noticed a definite uptick in requests to come on my face in recent years.</p></blockquote>
<p>\start_{derail}<br />
no way, really?  have other single women noticed this?  I&#8217;ve never had anyone ask me for that, but I&#8217;ve been in longterm, monogamous, mostly porn-free relationships for the last several years, so I&#8217;ve missed out on recent sexual trends. (thank dog)<br />
\end_{derail}</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68036</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/#comment-68036</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;but it should be pointed out that the eroticisation of degrading the “bottom” in gay porn is at least in part erotic because you’re treating him like a woman&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I feel it is patronising to homosexual guys to tell them that their sexual dynamics revolve around a women substitute.  Even with the disclaimer of &quot;at least in part&quot; which goes no where to clear things up and seems just intended to remove conviction of the claim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>but it should be pointed out that the eroticisation of degrading the “bottom” in gay porn is at least in part erotic because you’re treating him like a woman</p></blockquote>
<p>I feel it is patronising to homosexual guys to tell them that their sexual dynamics revolve around a women substitute.  Even with the disclaimer of &#8220;at least in part&#8221; which goes no where to clear things up and seems just intended to remove conviction of the claim.</p>
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