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	<title>Comments on: How They Eat You Alive in This City</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 02:24:56 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: robin ruse</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75361</link>
		<dc:creator>robin ruse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75361</guid>
		<description>This isn&#039;t a dilemma concerning privacy and relational identity; it&#039;s a case of exploitation and betrayal.  The situation here deals not with Haggard&#039;s most favored means of achieving orgasm and its moral viability; but with forsaking commitments which formed the foundation of his life and the lives of those around him. 

His treachery towards wife, children, congregation, Lord and self show a man whose ignorant arrogance destroyed all he supposedly valued.  The self righteous hatred he spewed provided a cover within which he felt free to pursue pleasure unbound, untethered by the moral responsibility he sought to impose upon others. 

Those closest to him were unwilling or unable to check his reckless, destructive behavior; it took someone outside the sanctimonious circle with the courage to cry enough.  Now that he is no longer of use to the powers within his ilk, there are the usual denunciations, distancing and denials.  Instead of apologizing for his behavior, Haggard seeks to deflect responsibility by blaming the &quot;dark and repulsive&quot; dirt in his life, rather than acknowledging culpability for indulging in malevolence.  Evil be those who evil think.

This isn&#039;t an &quot;outing&quot; so much as an intervention, or an &quot;outervention&quot;, if you will.  Now if someone could just provide the same service to the rest of those hiding in their closet of hatred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t a dilemma concerning privacy and relational identity; it&#8217;s a case of exploitation and betrayal.  The situation here deals not with Haggard&#8217;s most favored means of achieving orgasm and its moral viability; but with forsaking commitments which formed the foundation of his life and the lives of those around him. </p>
<p>His treachery towards wife, children, congregation, Lord and self show a man whose ignorant arrogance destroyed all he supposedly valued.  The self righteous hatred he spewed provided a cover within which he felt free to pursue pleasure unbound, untethered by the moral responsibility he sought to impose upon others. </p>
<p>Those closest to him were unwilling or unable to check his reckless, destructive behavior; it took someone outside the sanctimonious circle with the courage to cry enough.  Now that he is no longer of use to the powers within his ilk, there are the usual denunciations, distancing and denials.  Instead of apologizing for his behavior, Haggard seeks to deflect responsibility by blaming the &#8220;dark and repulsive&#8221; dirt in his life, rather than acknowledging culpability for indulging in malevolence.  Evil be those who evil think.</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t an &#8220;outing&#8221; so much as an intervention, or an &#8220;outervention&#8221;, if you will.  Now if someone could just provide the same service to the rest of those hiding in their closet of hatred.</p>
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		<title>By: piny</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75328</link>
		<dc:creator>piny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75328</guid>
		<description>I think that, &quot;Look! It&#039;s a faggot!&quot; can be a heterosexist read from some people, in other words.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that, &#8220;Look! It&#8217;s a faggot!&#8221; can be a heterosexist read from some people, in other words.</p>
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		<title>By: piny</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75327</link>
		<dc:creator>piny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75327</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;outing is necessary, as long as there are people who will use the closet as a place to harm the out community. but as i wrote over at my place, we lose control of the story once it breaks to the MSM. And there’s still a part of this story that at a basic level just sounds like “Look! It’s a Faggot!” &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, but then other progressive liberals turn around and call the whole thing homophobic.  I might write a follow-up post to this, but I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s as simple as calling it fighting dirty.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>outing is necessary, as long as there are people who will use the closet as a place to harm the out community. but as i wrote over at my place, we lose control of the story once it breaks to the MSM. And there’s still a part of this story that at a basic level just sounds like “Look! It’s a Faggot!” </p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, but then other progressive liberals turn around and call the whole thing homophobic.  I might write a follow-up post to this, but I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s as simple as calling it fighting dirty.</p>
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		<title>By: sly civilian</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75205</link>
		<dc:creator>sly civilian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 01:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75205</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t comment originally, but seeing as i got linked...i should engage piny&#039;s argument here.

outing is necessary, as long as there are people who will use the closet as a place to harm the out community.  but as i wrote over at my place, we lose control of the story once it breaks to the MSM.  And there&#039;s still a part of this story that at a basic level just sounds like &quot;Look!  It&#039;s a &lt;em&gt;Faggot&lt;/em&gt;!&quot;  

Someone is gonna be destroyed based on the public knowledge that they&#039;re queer.  It might be the best option we have, but i don&#039;t want to mistake tactical necessity for attractiveness.  

Outing doesn&#039;t bring us up.  It tears an enemy down.  Do it when you *need* to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t comment originally, but seeing as i got linked&#8230;i should engage piny&#8217;s argument here.</p>
<p>outing is necessary, as long as there are people who will use the closet as a place to harm the out community.  but as i wrote over at my place, we lose control of the story once it breaks to the MSM.  And there&#8217;s still a part of this story that at a basic level just sounds like &#8220;Look!  It&#8217;s a <em>Faggot</em>!&#8221;  </p>
<p>Someone is gonna be destroyed based on the public knowledge that they&#8217;re queer.  It might be the best option we have, but i don&#8217;t want to mistake tactical necessity for attractiveness.  </p>
<p>Outing doesn&#8217;t bring us up.  It tears an enemy down.  Do it when you *need* to.</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75188</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75188</guid>
		<description>oops, sorry.  my bad.  I think my sarcasm-detector is suffering from my lack of sleep (thanks to my dogs, usually best friends, who decided to have a great big fight late last night. the emergency vet is so much fun).  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops, sorry.  my bad.  I think my sarcasm-detector is suffering from my lack of sleep (thanks to my dogs, usually best friends, who decided to have a great big fight late last night. the emergency vet is so much fun).</p>
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		<title>By: NBarnes</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75166</link>
		<dc:creator>NBarnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75166</guid>
		<description>It was snark, designed to boggle and confound the mind when attempting to parse how wrong headed it was.  Sorry to confound in the wrong ways.   *blush*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was snark, designed to boggle and confound the mind when attempting to parse how wrong headed it was.  Sorry to confound in the wrong ways.   *blush*</p>
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		<title>By: piny</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75135</link>
		<dc:creator>piny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75135</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Wow, this comment is just wrong on so many levels. Let’s take it a phrase at a time:&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think he was kidding.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Wow, this comment is just wrong on so many levels. Let’s take it a phrase at a time:</p></blockquote>
<p>I think he was kidding.</p>
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		<title>By: Regina</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75134</link>
		<dc:creator>Regina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75134</guid>
		<description>I thought it was snark, Beth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought it was snark, Beth.</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75133</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75133</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Gosh, we liberals are really mean. Why can’t we learn to live and let live? What is with our obsession with what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wow, this comment is just wrong on so many levels.  Let&#039;s take it a phrase at a time:

&quot;live and let live&quot; -- um, I believe that is what WE are asking for.  That these homophobes just let us live our lives and they can just leave us alone.  But they are not leaving us alone, and therefore we are just defending ourselves.  Consider this metaphor.  I am a very nonviolent person.  But say someone has a gun to my head (not too far off from the reality here, as these people incite violence against us), I&#039;m supposed to do nothing to interfere because I believe we should all just &quot;live and let live&quot;??  In this case, clearly the person with the gun is not letting ME live, and BECAUSE OF THAT FACT, I think just about everyone would agree I am justified in defending myself, even if that means turning the tables and shooting him/her, something I would never do if not threatened by the other first.

&quot;what is with our obsession&quot;:  OUR obsession???????  Are you kidding me?????  I can think of no one more obsessed than Fred Phelps and his ilk!!!  I am in no way obsessed with what others do so long as they don&#039;t harm anyone.  But I guess I am &quot;obsessed&quot; with trying to live my life free from discrimination and violence, and I think that should be understandable to anyone.  

&quot;with what people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms&quot;:  here&#039;s where I know you must be straight.  I know that here the context is not someone trying to live an openly gay life, but that phrase is used so often and shows a fundamental lack of understanding about sexuality.  Gay people don&#039;t cast the argument like that because we are not gay ONLY in the privacy of our bedrooms, any more than straight people are.  It drives me crazy the way straight people think they &quot;keep their sexuality to themselves&quot; while they are talking about their husband/wife all the time, putting pictures of them on their desks, wearing that wedding ring, holding hands in the park, etc.  They proclaim their sexuality loud and clear a hundred times a day!  For me to &quot;keep it to myself&quot; means I cannot talk about my home life at all, I cannot talk about future plans, I can&#039;t even answer a simple &quot;what did you do last weekend&quot; honestly because all of that stuff involves my girlfriend!  

I just hope that someday, the homophobes can give up THEIR obsession and just let ME live.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Gosh, we liberals are really mean. Why can’t we learn to live and let live? What is with our obsession with what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms?</p></blockquote>
<p>Wow, this comment is just wrong on so many levels.  Let&#8217;s take it a phrase at a time:</p>
<p>&#8220;live and let live&#8221; &#8212; um, I believe that is what WE are asking for.  That these homophobes just let us live our lives and they can just leave us alone.  But they are not leaving us alone, and therefore we are just defending ourselves.  Consider this metaphor.  I am a very nonviolent person.  But say someone has a gun to my head (not too far off from the reality here, as these people incite violence against us), I&#8217;m supposed to do nothing to interfere because I believe we should all just &#8220;live and let live&#8221;??  In this case, clearly the person with the gun is not letting ME live, and BECAUSE OF THAT FACT, I think just about everyone would agree I am justified in defending myself, even if that means turning the tables and shooting him/her, something I would never do if not threatened by the other first.</p>
<p>&#8220;what is with our obsession&#8221;:  OUR obsession???????  Are you kidding me?????  I can think of no one more obsessed than Fred Phelps and his ilk!!!  I am in no way obsessed with what others do so long as they don&#8217;t harm anyone.  But I guess I am &#8220;obsessed&#8221; with trying to live my life free from discrimination and violence, and I think that should be understandable to anyone.  </p>
<p>&#8220;with what people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms&#8221;:  here&#8217;s where I know you must be straight.  I know that here the context is not someone trying to live an openly gay life, but that phrase is used so often and shows a fundamental lack of understanding about sexuality.  Gay people don&#8217;t cast the argument like that because we are not gay ONLY in the privacy of our bedrooms, any more than straight people are.  It drives me crazy the way straight people think they &#8220;keep their sexuality to themselves&#8221; while they are talking about their husband/wife all the time, putting pictures of them on their desks, wearing that wedding ring, holding hands in the park, etc.  They proclaim their sexuality loud and clear a hundred times a day!  For me to &#8220;keep it to myself&#8221; means I cannot talk about my home life at all, I cannot talk about future plans, I can&#8217;t even answer a simple &#8220;what did you do last weekend&#8221; honestly because all of that stuff involves my girlfriend!  </p>
<p>I just hope that someday, the homophobes can give up THEIR obsession and just let ME live.</p>
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		<title>By: Bitter Scribe</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75127</link>
		<dc:creator>Bitter Scribe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/14/4106/#comment-75127</guid>
		<description>The rule I learned in journalism school, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, is that revealing details about a public figure&#039;s life is acceptable only when they relate directly to what made that person a public figure in the first place. So a gay politician who made a name for himself gay-bashing would, under that rule, be fair game for outing.

The specific case we were discussing had to do with a semi-closeted gay man who saved the life of President Gerald Ford by grabbing the gun of a would-be assassin. His sexuality was revealed during coverage of the incident, which we thought (and I still think) was out of line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rule I learned in journalism school, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, is that revealing details about a public figure&#8217;s life is acceptable only when they relate directly to what made that person a public figure in the first place. So a gay politician who made a name for himself gay-bashing would, under that rule, be fair game for outing.</p>
<p>The specific case we were discussing had to do with a semi-closeted gay man who saved the life of President Gerald Ford by grabbing the gun of a would-be assassin. His sexuality was revealed during coverage of the incident, which we thought (and I still think) was out of line.</p>
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