Comments on: Lesson of the Day: Knowing When to Stop http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/ In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:14:04 +0000 hourly 1 By: Norah http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77186 Norah Fri, 01 Dec 2006 06:51:03 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77186 <blockquote>Yes, jennie, but referring to an “amount of girls” is a quick and easy objectification, since mass nouns l(ike rice and flour) are always not individually determined, therefore lacking identity. Same principle behind referring to women by their body parts - the effect is to deny subject/personhood</blockquote> Yeah, which is was li'l Gary did in his original article, since Jennie's correct definition of amount vs. number makes no sense when applied to Gary's perspective. I know the difference; he clearly doesn't.

Yes, jennie, but referring to an “amount of girls” is a quick and easy objectification, since mass nouns l(ike rice and flour) are always not individually determined, therefore lacking identity. Same principle behind referring to women by their body parts – the effect is to deny subject/personhood

Yeah, which is was li’l Gary did in his original article, since Jennie’s correct definition of amount vs. number makes no sense when applied to Gary’s perspective. I know the difference; he clearly doesn’t.

]]> By: Penny http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77158 Penny Fri, 01 Dec 2006 03:58:53 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77158 <blockquote>moment of ghastly grammatical pedantry No way. You rock, Jennie.</blockquote>

moment of ghastly grammatical pedantry

No way. You rock, Jennie.

]]> By: jennie http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77067 jennie Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:20:59 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77067 Thanks, PhysioProf! My editing students will be most relieved to know this. micheyd I suspect that you might be reading too much into a lamentably common usage slip. I see <i>number</i> and <i>amount</i> conflated all the time, by people who simply don't know the difference between a count and a non-count noun. Interestingly, I've seen it most frequently with the noun <i>people</i>, of late. A lot of sentences like "A large amount of people gathered to watch the government official cut the ribbon." These authors aren't denying the personhood of the people, they're simply being ungrammatical. Thanks, PhysioProf! My editing students will be most relieved to know this.

micheyd I suspect that you might be reading too much into a lamentably common usage slip. I see number and amount conflated all the time, by people who simply don’t know the difference between a count and a non-count noun.

Interestingly, I’ve seen it most frequently with the noun people, of late. A lot of sentences like “A large amount of people gathered to watch the government official cut the ribbon.” These authors aren’t denying the personhood of the people, they’re simply being ungrammatical.

]]> By: micheyd http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77061 micheyd Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:33:39 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77061 Yes, jennie, but referring to an "amount of girls" is a quick and easy objectification, since mass nouns l(ike rice and flour) are always not individually determined, therefore lacking identity. Same principle behind referring to women by their body parts - the effect is to deny subject/personhood. Yes, jennie, but referring to an “amount of girls” is a quick and easy objectification, since mass nouns l(ike rice and flour) are always not individually determined, therefore lacking identity. Same principle behind referring to women by their body parts – the effect is to deny subject/personhood.

]]> By: PhysioProf http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77060 PhysioProf Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:32:05 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77060 Jennie, you pass eighth grade English! Jennie, you pass eighth grade English!

]]> By: jennie http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77056 jennie Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:59:54 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77056 Norah, <i>number</i> vs. <i>amount</i> has nothing to do with personhood and everything to do with countability. <i>Girls</i> (like apples or puppies if they hold still long enough) are countable: You can have one girl, six girls, or several girls. Therefore, we use <i>number</i> to discuss an undetermined quantity of girls. <i>Rice</i>, <i>Flour</i>, or, ummm... I guess <i>scorn</i> are non-countable: We can have a lot of each, we can have several <i>units</i> of rice and flour (not sure about scorn), (one grain of rice, one cup of flour) but we can't have one rice, or one flour, or one scorn. We therefore use "amount" when discussing an indeterminate quantity of any of these things. /moment of ghastly grammatical pedantry. Norah, number vs. amount has nothing to do with personhood and everything to do with countability.

Girls (like apples or puppies if they hold still long enough) are countable: You can have one girl, six girls, or several girls. Therefore, we use number to discuss an undetermined quantity of girls.

Rice, Flour, or, ummm… I guess scorn are non-countable: We can have a lot of each, we can have several units of rice and flour (not sure about scorn), (one grain of rice, one cup of flour) but we can’t have one rice, or one flour, or one scorn. We therefore use “amount” when discussing an indeterminate quantity of any of these things.

/moment of ghastly grammatical pedantry.

]]> By: bmc90 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77046 bmc90 Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:19:01 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-77046 Gary, I related to Jill's column about hair. We have all had bad haircuts. However, it seems fair to say that most of us cannot relate to your article about women in clubs. What you said either 1. relates equally to men in clubs, which you chose to ignore; 2. is a patent falsehood or, at least 3. a gross generalization that does not apply to all female clubgoers. As you see above, some of us have done a lot of clubbing while choosing to pick up guys for casual encounters elsewhere or not at all. It is better to write something trivial but true than untrue and merely revealing your own prejudices and assumptions about people of a different gender, when you could not possibly actually know the empirical truth (i.e. how much hooking up is really going on - you didn't follow up and interview people who left together I presume-, what do the people involved want or expect out of the experience, how does it make them feel about themselves - you wrote like you know all this stuff and you don't). At least Jill knows what happened to her hair, so she is more qualified than the Pulitzer Prize in journalism so far. Gary, I related to Jill’s column about hair. We have all had bad haircuts. However, it seems fair to say that most of us cannot relate to your article about women in clubs. What you said either 1. relates equally to men in clubs, which you chose to ignore; 2. is a patent falsehood or, at least 3. a gross generalization that does not apply to all female clubgoers. As you see above, some of us have done a lot of clubbing while choosing to pick up guys for casual encounters elsewhere or not at all. It is better to write something trivial but true than untrue and merely revealing your own prejudices and assumptions about people of a different gender, when you could not possibly actually know the empirical truth (i.e. how much hooking up is really going on – you didn’t follow up and interview people who left together I presume-, what do the people involved want or expect out of the experience, how does it make them feel about themselves – you wrote like you know all this stuff and you don’t). At least Jill knows what happened to her hair, so she is more qualified than the Pulitzer Prize in journalism so far.

]]> By: mythago http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-76918 mythago Thu, 30 Nov 2006 05:17:18 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-76918 <i>how old is this guy?!</i> Mentally? how old is this guy?!

Mentally?

]]> By: Norah http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-76916 Norah Thu, 30 Nov 2006 05:15:13 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-76916 <blockquote>Anyone who uses the phrase “amount of girls” should be immediately expelled from college and forced to repeat 8th grade English class. </blockquote> Nu-uh, Physio Prof. Cause girls aren't really, you know, <em>people</em>...

Anyone who uses the phrase “amount of girls” should be immediately expelled from college and forced to repeat 8th grade English class.

Nu-uh, Physio Prof. Cause girls aren’t really, you know, people…

]]> By: PhysioProf http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-76854 PhysioProf Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:40:51 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/11/28/lesson-of-the-day-knowing-when-to-stop/#comment-76854 Anyone who uses the phrase "amount of girls" should be immediately expelled from college and forced to repeat 8th grade English class. Anyone who uses the phrase “amount of girls” should be immediately expelled from college and forced to repeat 8th grade English class.

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