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31 Responses

  1. Linnaeus
    Linnaeus December 12, 2006 at 1:30 pm |

    First of all, I won’t burn my ties because I actually like ties.

    What these guys are committing is what’s called the fallacy of composition. They draw the conclusion, maybe based on experiences with some women that didn’t work out very well, that somehow all women are like the ones they didn’t like. Leaving aside the apparent lack of self-analysis, this kind of reasoning is just flawed.

    They furthermore do a kind of post hoc, ergo propter hoc thing by blaming it all on feminism.

  2. Auguste
    Auguste December 12, 2006 at 1:31 pm |

    women like her and other feminists have declared that women shall have sex on their terms and only when they want it. Society has bought into this totally.

    Every time I read this, I try to search it for a pseudo-reasonable stance at its heart. I always think it’s going to be like “sometimes men have sex when they’re not in the mood, too.” But damn if the MRAs don’t unfailingly tip their hand with their phrasing – there’s no reasonableness at the heart of this bullshit.

  3. Auguste
    Auguste December 12, 2006 at 1:32 pm |

    That should read “Every time I read something like this.”

  4. TC
    TC December 12, 2006 at 1:43 pm |

    Auguste-

    The opposite is the underlying assumption there- that women should have sex when MEN want it.

    These guys all seem like real catches. I wonder why they can’t find any women?

    The total lack of self awareness, is, of course, a pre-requisite for wingnuts.

  5. Ginger
    Ginger December 12, 2006 at 1:56 pm |

    women like her and other feminists have declared that women shall have sex on their terms and only when they want it.

    Ye gods, we are ruining the world in pursuit of mutual pleasure! The End is Nigh. Repent!

  6. Hershele Ostropoler
    Hershele Ostropoler December 12, 2006 at 2:05 pm |

    I can’t, alas, claim to be surprised that there are men who think women are there to sexually service them, that female sexuality exists for their benefit. However, I am in enough of a bubble to be surprised that there are men who realize they believe that, who don’t see the point in even giving lip service to female sexual agency.

  7. anon
    anon December 12, 2006 at 2:11 pm |

    Oh please take those fragile balls and actually go away.

    well, one can wish?

    sigh.

    You know they will just sit there and whine and complain and bitch and moan, and, worst of all, stay

    Gah!

  8. TomCody
    TomCody December 12, 2006 at 2:34 pm |

    I laughed. Hard.
    Women have sex only when they want it? Oh yes, that means you can be turned down for whatever reason and that’s just bad for you now isn’t it? You want some warm milk, it’ll make you fweel bewtter, yes it will, your wittle heart just can’t take having no sex can you? awwwww.

    But if you don’t need/want women so much why are you publically bitching about it?

    Take your balls, go the fuck home and let the big kids play. Losers.

  9. Sara
    Sara December 12, 2006 at 2:34 pm |

    See, I had this reaction to the dude a while back who said that he “asserts” “dominion” over women by getting them off. Oh, okay, you try that. Keep trying it until it works.

  10. Lesley
    Lesley December 12, 2006 at 3:15 pm |

    This is the most frightening comment on that thread, and either Dr. Helen doesn’t know who Darren Mack is or flat out doesn’t care about such a blatant expression that violence against women is an acceptable response to “uppity women”.

    Anonymous said…

    “I am not sure American men are to the point where they will take to the streets and burn their ties…or are they?”

    As Darren Mack.

    Would that Darren Mack had only burned his tie. Instead he murdered his wife and shot a family court judge. Darren Mack IS the stereotype, not a reaction against it.

  11. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub December 12, 2006 at 3:57 pm |
  12. Medicine Man
    Medicine Man December 12, 2006 at 4:46 pm |

    I’m not really fond of ties… but that’s about as far as I could agree with these jokers.

  13. PoliticalCritic
    PoliticalCritic December 12, 2006 at 4:49 pm |

    See, the real problem here is monogamy.

    It is simply an unnatural state perpetuated by religious and political leaders to control society. We should do away with such constraints to existence.

  14. jt
    jt December 12, 2006 at 4:55 pm |
    “women like her and other feminists have declared that women shall have sex on their terms and only when they want it. Society has bought into this totally.”

    Every time I read this, I try to search it for a pseudo-reasonable stance at its heart. I always think it’s going to be like “sometimes men have sex when they’re not in the mood, too.”

    Maybe (and I’m really stretching here, I know) he’s complaining that feminists have declared that all women shall have sex on those particular feminists’ terms, which could be pseudo-reasonable, if pretty much entirely incorrect in my experience.

    Or … maybe he’s just a dumbass.

  15. evil fizz
    evil fizz December 12, 2006 at 5:07 pm | *

    “women like her and other feminists have declared that women shall have sex on their terms and only when they want it. Society has bought into this totally.”

    I keep reading this sentence, and all I can think is, “Damnit, I want the good old days when no one was prosecuted for rape!”

    ugh.

  16. Bolo
    Bolo December 12, 2006 at 5:37 pm |

    Am I the only one who thought “meninism” had something to do with the Mennonites before really reading the post? As in, “Mennonites have started a new movement called Meninsim?”

  17. Roy
    Roy December 12, 2006 at 5:42 pm |

    *pounds head against wall*

    Who are these people? Who?
    Re: “women like her and other feminists have declared that women shall have sex on their terms and only when they want it.”
    Read his whole comment- there’s no way he’s talking about anything other than exactly what it sounds like- he expects women to have sex with men whenever the man damn well wants it- “Any man who desires sex more frequently than his mate is now a disgusting pervert… …In the end, many men, myself included, have gotten so fed up of playing bullshit sexual games with their wives, that they (we) sexually satisfy ourselves with porn.”

  18. coperad
    coperad December 12, 2006 at 6:52 pm |

    Bwahaha! I really liked reading the comments from the guys who are going to remove themselves from the dating scene. “Don’t throw me into that briar patch, please!” Haha. I actually laughed at that.

    I don’t understand how any guy would want to have sex with a woman who wasn’t in the mood. So what, they want the woman to just lay there while they do their act? Is sex really going to be that great if one party isn’t even there mentally? I’ve been on the receiving end of this treatment, and if these men could only know what it feels like to be so violated, maybe they’d think differently.

  19. Cooper
    Cooper December 12, 2006 at 7:08 pm |

    — men wont burn their ties, we will work slow, we will stop doing the mucky jobs, like taking the trash, etc..

    And when they’re fired for poor productivity, they can blame the castrating feminists for pushing men out of jobs that they DESERVE. These guys have everything figured out!

  20. Lauren
    Lauren December 12, 2006 at 7:12 pm |

    I meet all criteria on the Good Woman ™ list except fishing. And I’m a feminist. Eat it, Dr. Helen.

  21. alex
    alex December 12, 2006 at 7:24 pm |

    I think the guy’s making (or at least trying to make) a slightly broader and more interesting point about sex in relationships. Isn’t he saying that in the context of a relationship it’s reasonable to expected have some consideration for your partners sexual needs, not just your own?

    It’s okay not to have sex with someone if you don’t want to. But it’s pretty unfair to me to do this AND expect then not to have sex with anyone else – that’s just controling. If the guy is in an asexual marital relationships don’t you think he has any grounds for complaint?

  22. Ilyka Damen
    Ilyka Damen December 12, 2006 at 7:36 pm |

    It’s okay not to have sex with someone if you don’t want to. But it’s pretty unfair to me to do this AND expect then not to have sex with anyone else – that’s just controling.

    Right, expecting you to honor a commitment to “forsake all others” is controlling. Next thing you know, men will be expected to honor contracts and adhere to license agreements and obey laws and I don’t know what all else! MADNESS.

  23. jt
    jt December 12, 2006 at 7:55 pm |

    It’s okay not to have sex with someone if you don’t want to. But it’s pretty unfair to me to do this AND expect then not to have sex with anyone else – that’s just controling. If the guy is in an asexual marital relationships don’t you think he has any grounds for complaint?

    Please, no, not this one again

  24. Raincitygirl
    Raincitygirl December 12, 2006 at 9:15 pm |

    It’s okay not to have sex with someone if you don’t want to. But it’s pretty unfair to me to do this AND expect then not to have sex with anyone else – that’s just controling. If the guy is in an asexual marital relationships don’t you think he has any grounds for complaint?

    Alex, strange though this concept may seem to some people, it is possible for a woman (or a man) to be not in the mood at a given point along the continuum of time and in the mood at another point.

    “Not tonight, dear,” does not necessarily imply a barren sexual wasteland stretching unto death or divorce court, whichever comes first. Maybe it implies she’s just not in the mood for sex TONIGHT. Maybe she’s tired. It happens. If your partner isn’t in the mood for a few days or weeks, it’s called a dry spell, or a high-stress period. If it starts stretching into months, then yeah, that would indicate there’s a problem of some kind. But a woman who turns down one suggestion of sex may not turn out the same suggestion the following night.

    In fact, your chances of getting a good lay tomorrow night (as opposed to just any lay) are probably higher if you DON’T try to nag her into sex tonight. Oh, and scooping the cat litter or emptying the dishwasher tomorrow night might not be a bad strategy in terms of a forward-thinking strategy to get laid tomorrow night. A woman who’s tired is statistically speaking less likely to be in the mood. A woman who’s less tired, and whose partner has just unexpectedly done something thougthful, may be feeling considerably more jazzed about sex.

    It’s not a quid pro quo, chores for sex, but her not being in the mood may not be all about her cutting you off out of malicious desire to cause you sexual frustration. The whole point of partnership is that support is a two-way-street. And a woman whose partner does thoughtful little things for her sometimes may be more likely to thoughtfully, say, give her horny partner a handjob even if she really isn’t in the mood for actual sex at that time. Compromise and consideration are key concepts in a successful relationship, on many fronts, not just sexual.

    BTW, sometimes I am so DAMN glad I’m a dyke. Not that I think most straight men are like these Neanderthals (dear God, I hope not), and it’s not like relationships with other women are magically easy just because they don’t have penises, but there’s some stuff I don’t have to worry about.

  25. Roy
    Roy December 12, 2006 at 9:54 pm |

    I think the guy’s making (or at least trying to make) a slightly broader and more interesting point about sex in relationships. Isn’t he saying that in the context of a relationship it’s reasonable to expected have some consideration for your partners sexual needs, not just your own?

    It’s okay not to have sex with someone if you don’t want to. But it’s pretty unfair to me to do this AND expect then not to have sex with anyone else – that’s just controling. If the guy is in an asexual marital relationships don’t you think he has any grounds for complaint?

    I think that the guy is being a flaming ass-hat. He’s not out to make a broader point about sexual equality in a relationship. He’s out to make his point as the Man of the house. He wants sex when he’s ready for it- no arguments. That’s crap.
    If he was really interested in his partner’s needs, he wouldn’t be pulling “In the end, many men, myself included, have gotten so fed up of playing bullshit sexual games with their wives, that they (we) sexually satisfy ourselves with porn.”

    The fact that your wife or girlfriend isn’t in the mood for sex exactly when you are, does not mean that she’s playing “bullshit sexual games.” If you’re having a dry spell, figure out what the problem is. Talk with your wife, and get to the bottom of the problem. If you’re interested in making sure that both people have their needs met, you’d be looking towards communication, not jumping to conclusions or blaming the woman or demanding that she service you because you’re The Man.
    I know, ground-breaking, isn’t it? I should write a flippin’ book.

    And if the guy is unhappy, and the lack of sex is a pattern, then maybe they need to talk, and consider getting out of the marriage, or come to some kind of agreement about what to do. Cheating on your husband or wife is *not* acceptable.

  26. coperad
    coperad December 12, 2006 at 9:56 pm |

    A woman who’s less tired, and whose partner has just unexpectedly done something thougthful, may be feeling considerably more jazzed about sex.

    This is pretty much what I wanted to say earlier too. Seriously, nothing turns me on more than when my boyfriend puts effort into making me dinner or coming over to help me with stuff to make my life easier. Some guys think this can be accomplished with some sort of cliche token of affection. (Ugh.)

    BTW, sometimes I am so DAMN glad I’m a dyke.

    I was starting to think I was one too (during and after the relationship with my ex) but then I met my atypical-straight-guy boyfriend. It’s great to finally have an EQUAL relationship! But if I hadn’t met him first, it would’ve at least been fun to try the girl thing out.

  27. Linnaeus
    Linnaeus December 12, 2006 at 10:23 pm |

    It’s okay not to have sex with someone if you don’t want to. But it’s pretty unfair to me to do this AND expect then not to have sex with anyone else – that’s just controling. If the guy is in an asexual marital relationships don’t you think he has any grounds for complaint?

    Not to pile on, but let me add a couple of cents in addition to what others have already said.

    If the sexual incompatibility is recent, you can try working it out along the lines of what Raincitygirl said. If it’s continuing over a long period of time, then there’s some issue that needs to be worked out. If you and your partner can’t solve it, then you need to consider ending the relationship and finding someone who is more compatible with you.

  28. PhoenixRising
    PhoenixRising December 12, 2006 at 10:57 pm |

    “Where are the ladies who know how to check the oil and fry a chicken?”

    Well, goofus, according to my comprehensive survey, they’re at the bar shooting pool with the other lesbians. We also fish, clean our own catch, teach kids to throw a baseball and change diapers.

    What the hell do you do again, that earns you the status ‘Need Not Talk to Woman Who Owes Me Sex’?

  29. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub December 13, 2006 at 9:50 am |

    You know what kills me about that asshat who thinks it’s horrible that women want to have sex on our terms? He forgets that a lot of the time, men lose interest/energy as a relationship wanes on, and women aren’t exactly whining about how we don’t have the ‘right’ to rape our partners. Yes folks, women have libidos, too, though if it’s only about the guy’s needs, then we do tend to go cold. Imagine that. Our pleasure should count too. How very awful, I know.

    And Alex, if someone is in a sexless relationship and miserable, they should leave. They should not go creeping and shit on their partners, they should not use someone as a bit on the side (which is, I imagine, a pretty miserable role to play) and lead them on. The world doesn’t revolve around them. If someone is that miserable, they should get a fucking divorce, or leave the relationship.

  30. Hershele Ostropoler
    Hershele Ostropoler December 13, 2006 at 4:27 pm |

    Alex, you probably shouldn’t get into a relationship with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with you, if sex is important to you. If you mean just one night, you can put up with it.

  31. Jonquil
    Jonquil December 17, 2006 at 8:34 pm |

    Tell you what; I’m only having sex with men who have enough Latin to know that you go from “femina” to either “vir” or “homo” depending on your precise connotation.

    It’s worked out so far.

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