Comments on: “Feminist” Rape Apologists

By: Denise Tzumli

Denise Tzumli — Sun, 07 Jan 2007 00:05:16 +0000

It’s worth going to the Women’s eNews home page and having a look at their

Mission Statement:

Women’s eNews is the definitive source of substantive news–unavailable anywhere else–covering issues of particular concern to women and providing women’s perspectives on public policy. It enhances women’s ability to define their own lives and to participate fully in every sector of human endeavor.

A current article they are running ‘Eve-Teasing’ Makes India’s Streets Mean for Women
http://womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2991/context/ourdailylives
is a feminist article because it defends women’s right to be in public spaces free from harassment.
The article written by Liz Funk would be at home in any Murdoch rag, and many women’s magazines.
The public purse should not be used to publish such trash.

By: Raincitygirl

Raincitygirl — Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:49:58 +0000

Getting back to what Mythago was saying, I don’t have any problem with the idea of banning Ladies’ Night. I think it would be difficult to enforce, given that bar and club owners have a financial incentive to do things like Ladies’ Night. But I doubt even a well-enforced ban would make much difference to rape rates. Cheap booze isn’t the key factor in acquaintance rape. Rapists are.

By: hippie

hippie — Fri, 05 Jan 2007 20:21:24 +0000

It’s so frustrating – with ‘friends’ like these, who needs patriarchy?!

Rapists cause rape. How hard is it for them to grasp that?!

By: Suz

Suz — Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:27:21 +0000

I am glad I grew up in the 70s and 80s

I’m from that time period, too. I remember reading in a magazine (I think it was Sassy ) a survey where a large percentage of guys interviewed (don’t remember the actual number but it was way more than half) said they were entitled to sex on a date if they spent more than $15 on the girl.

I view that moment as when I started to be a feminist. And it sure as hell shaped all my dating experiences.

By: mythago

mythago — Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:41:02 +0000

I think you can have it both ways. Don’t admit anyone underage, offer drink specials that are reasonable (e.g., half-price beer, rather than unlimited free tequila shots), and cut off all obviously drunk people. Problem solved.

Uh, to be clearer, YOU can’t have it both ways. You were arguing that clubs deliberately entice underage drinkers to get wasted, yet when the drink-special enticement draws in women of legal drinking age, it’s a ‘harmless perk’ for ‘ladies’.

Honestly, I truly don’t get all the support for Ladies’ Night. It’s like listening to a bunch of I’m-not-a-feminist-but arguments about how one shouldn’t have to give up the man picking up the whole check on dates.

By: What You Should Read Since I’m Cleaning House and Desktop at Faux Real Tho!

Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:19:07 +0000

[...] of T: Whose Life? Whose Will? and Mary’s Baby; Heather’s, Maybe Feministe: “Feminist” Rape Apologists and The Pitfalls of One-Size-Fi [...]

By: Roy

Roy — Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:22:38 +0000

…I’d be willing to bet* that there are more than a few men who knowingly forced or coerced a woman into sex but didn’t define it as rape. They may recognize that it wasn’t the nicest thing to do, but they probably don’t put themselves in the category of “rapist.” They probably don’t view their action as being as bad as jumping out of the bushes and raping a stranger.

Do they mourn “If only someone had told me it was wrong…”? Maybe not in those exact words, but I think the sentiment — that they didn’t recognize how wrong it was — has certainly been there. Even sadder, for many of these men, they never even get to the point of recognizing it was wrong at all.

I absolutely think that’s true. I think you can actually see that sometimes when guys are first getting involved in feminism- taking classes, for example. Over the course of the class, you can see some of the men taking stock of their own relationships and the ways that they’ve treated women. Even if they haven’t raped anyone, there are definitely moments where someone realizes “Oh. My. God. I did that?”
So, yeah. Absolutely.

By: Jill

Jill — Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:34:47 +0000

Agreed, Lindsay, that the point that club owners exploit women for financial gain is an important one. But I think that point can be made without slut-shaming and without inferring that if only women stay home, they can prevent themselves from being assaulted. I would have loved to see an article on the points that you just made — but that wasn’t the article that Liz wrote.

By: Lindsay Beyestein

Lindsay Beyestein — Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:50:58 +0000

By: mythago

mythago — Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:55:08 +0000

You can’t really have it both ways. If the point of drink specials is to bring in more female customers so that you will get more male customers, that applies to 21-and-over females as well as 18-year-olds. Are you really saying that there are clubs that give free drinks to 18-to-20 year-old girls, but require 21-year-olds to pay half price?

Clubs aren’t supposed to be serving alcohol to anyone under 21, last I heard.