<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Because bitches is crazy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 03:05:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Kaytie</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83844</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaytie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jan 2007 02:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83844</guid>
		<description>This thread warms my heart.

Let me explain - yesterday I got pulled into a blog discussion by someone&#039;s comment that some girls who were beaten, molested, or raped by predators met through MySpace deserved what they got because &quot;they must be dirty sluts who were asking for it.&quot; The girls were ages 13-15. 

I just can&#039;t let the &quot;dirty slut&quot; comments by, even in places where I know the audience doesn&#039;t care. What suprised me is that I was one of only a few people who argued that victims don&#039;t &quot;deserve what they get.&quot; More disturbing to me than that comment was how many people agreed with it, or who said &quot;they should have known better.&quot; I was vastly outnumbered and this is a blog I consider representative of mainstream, young America.

I was feeling very much alone. 

So my thanks to Feministe (and also Pandagon as that&#039;s where I came from) for providing a forum where I can read the comments of so many people who &lt;strong&gt;do &lt;/strong&gt;understand, and who are working against serious resistance to the idea that people don&#039;t deserve to be victimized, that bad judgment does not equal culpability, that women aren&#039;t dirty sluts who ask for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thread warms my heart.</p>
<p>Let me explain &#8211; yesterday I got pulled into a blog discussion by someone&#8217;s comment that some girls who were beaten, molested, or raped by predators met through MySpace deserved what they got because &#8220;they must be dirty sluts who were asking for it.&#8221; The girls were ages 13-15. </p>
<p>I just can&#8217;t let the &#8220;dirty slut&#8221; comments by, even in places where I know the audience doesn&#8217;t care. What suprised me is that I was one of only a few people who argued that victims don&#8217;t &#8220;deserve what they get.&#8221; More disturbing to me than that comment was how many people agreed with it, or who said &#8220;they should have known better.&#8221; I was vastly outnumbered and this is a blog I consider representative of mainstream, young America.</p>
<p>I was feeling very much alone. </p>
<p>So my thanks to Feministe (and also Pandagon as that&#8217;s where I came from) for providing a forum where I can read the comments of so many people who <strong>do </strong>understand, and who are working against serious resistance to the idea that people don&#8217;t deserve to be victimized, that bad judgment does not equal culpability, that women aren&#8217;t dirty sluts who ask for it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: humbition</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83829</link>
		<dc:creator>humbition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jan 2007 01:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83829</guid>
		<description>Obviously I&#039;m posting a little late on this long thread, but I would just like to commend LongHaired Weirdo on his comments.  I think they address &lt;em&gt;extremely&lt;/em&gt; important issues.  The New York Times article was very deceptive, in terms of covering up the actual rape which Ashley&#039;s ex-beau admitted to, but it was also insidious in another way.  It pandered to the fear that ordinary, respectful, but still assertive masculine initiation of sex and relationships is what is demonized by feminism.  On his blog and here, LongHaired Weirdo has made a very detailed analysis of this fear and how he overcame it.  But I think this fear is rampant among men and even among women; perhaps it is a major cause of the &quot;I&#039;m not a feminist but&quot; syndrome.  It is very hard to talk about these matters in the specific ways he describes, and I want to commend him for doing so.

I have another comment about the deceptive cover-story aspect of the Times article.  There is a lot of attention paid to date rape as &quot;miscommunication.&quot;  But whenever I read what survivors actually say happened, I almost always find myself thinking, &quot;my God, how could anyone think there is any miscommunication here&quot;?  I think that somehow our cultural discourse has gotten into a fog -- with a lot of causes -- in which we think that &quot;consent&quot; is a more rocket-science issue than it really is in most real-life cases.  If LongHaired Weirdo&#039;s account of it became more widely dispersed, I think a lot of the suspicion of feminism, which the essayist Ashley would like to sow, would fall on much stonier ground.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously I&#8217;m posting a little late on this long thread, but I would just like to commend LongHaired Weirdo on his comments.  I think they address <em>extremely</em> important issues.  The New York Times article was very deceptive, in terms of covering up the actual rape which Ashley&#8217;s ex-beau admitted to, but it was also insidious in another way.  It pandered to the fear that ordinary, respectful, but still assertive masculine initiation of sex and relationships is what is demonized by feminism.  On his blog and here, LongHaired Weirdo has made a very detailed analysis of this fear and how he overcame it.  But I think this fear is rampant among men and even among women; perhaps it is a major cause of the &#8220;I&#8217;m not a feminist but&#8221; syndrome.  It is very hard to talk about these matters in the specific ways he describes, and I want to commend him for doing so.</p>
<p>I have another comment about the deceptive cover-story aspect of the Times article.  There is a lot of attention paid to date rape as &#8220;miscommunication.&#8221;  But whenever I read what survivors actually say happened, I almost always find myself thinking, &#8220;my God, how could anyone think there is any miscommunication here&#8221;?  I think that somehow our cultural discourse has gotten into a fog &#8212; with a lot of causes &#8212; in which we think that &#8220;consent&#8221; is a more rocket-science issue than it really is in most real-life cases.  If LongHaired Weirdo&#8217;s account of it became more widely dispersed, I think a lot of the suspicion of feminism, which the essayist Ashley would like to sow, would fall on much stonier ground.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Dyer-Bennet</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83756</link>
		<dc:creator>David Dyer-Bennet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83756</guid>
		<description>Also, it gives a simple and known name to the behavior between when it becomes unacceptable and when it becomes rape.  Identifying and stigmatizing the earlier stages is good.  (Harrassment wasn&#039;t sticking well, though it&#039;s also a proper term.)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, it gives a simple and known name to the behavior between when it becomes unacceptable and when it becomes rape.  Identifying and stigmatizing the earlier stages is good.  (Harrassment wasn&#8217;t sticking well, though it&#8217;s also a proper term.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hugo</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83753</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 19:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83753</guid>
		<description>FWIW, I got around to putting up the first of what will be two posts on this topic, but from the perspective of a Christian feminist frustrated with abstinence only education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FWIW, I got around to putting up the first of what will be two posts on this topic, but from the perspective of a Christian feminist frustrated with abstinence only education.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Laurie</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83749</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 19:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83749</guid>
		<description>ACG:
Brilliant analogy -- and no, I don&#039;t think you trivialized rape at all with it.  It just drives home the reality of what the &quot;aggressive&quot; guy is doing when he pushes for sex and eventually just takes what he wants.  Well done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ACG:<br />
Brilliant analogy &#8212; and no, I don&#8217;t think you trivialized rape at all with it.  It just drives home the reality of what the &#8220;aggressive&#8221; guy is doing when he pushes for sex and eventually just takes what he wants.  Well done.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alara Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83745</link>
		<dc:creator>Alara Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 19:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83745</guid>
		<description>To be fair, the number of rapists is probably drastically less than the number of rape victims because the crime has enormously high recidivism. There&#039;s almost no such thing as a rapist who rapes only one woman, once. Rapists rape many times. 

So cutting down the number of rapists is easier than it would sound from looking at the number of rape victims. Take out just *one* of these guys before his rape career starts and you may have saved 5-40 women from being raped. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, the number of rapists is probably drastically less than the number of rape victims because the crime has enormously high recidivism. There&#8217;s almost no such thing as a rapist who rapes only one woman, once. Rapists rape many times. </p>
<p>So cutting down the number of rapists is easier than it would sound from looking at the number of rape victims. Take out just *one* of these guys before his rape career starts and you may have saved 5-40 women from being raped.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: johnieb</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83679</link>
		<dc:creator>johnieb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83679</guid>
		<description>I had to leave immediately after posting yesterday, Nickname; I think and hope you will understand why.  I&#039;m a Vietnam combat veteran with PTSD; I&#039;m beginning to understand how other people&#039;s suffering triggers my re-enactment of mine.  I hope the insights we have won over the last three decades or so help others; it gives it some good meaning, ya know?

I hope you have little trouble in getting whatever help you need promptly, neither from the systems without nor within.  I know what it&#039;s like to try and fail, both giving and receiving, but I&#039;ve noticed a substantial amount of progress, after I got the right services lined up, and there&#039;s some great new approaches coming out I&#039;m starting to try.  I have found it&#039;s better to be alert when facing the demons; in other words, avoid self-medication: train for the event.

Shit, forgive me; I&#039;m getting avuncular, and I just wanna help, ya know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had to leave immediately after posting yesterday, Nickname; I think and hope you will understand why.  I&#8217;m a Vietnam combat veteran with PTSD; I&#8217;m beginning to understand how other people&#8217;s suffering triggers my re-enactment of mine.  I hope the insights we have won over the last three decades or so help others; it gives it some good meaning, ya know?</p>
<p>I hope you have little trouble in getting whatever help you need promptly, neither from the systems without nor within.  I know what it&#8217;s like to try and fail, both giving and receiving, but I&#8217;ve noticed a substantial amount of progress, after I got the right services lined up, and there&#8217;s some great new approaches coming out I&#8217;m starting to try.  I have found it&#8217;s better to be alert when facing the demons; in other words, avoid self-medication: train for the event.</p>
<p>Shit, forgive me; I&#8217;m getting avuncular, and I just wanna help, ya know?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Longhairedweirdo</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83669</link>
		<dc:creator>Longhairedweirdo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83669</guid>
		<description>ACG
&lt;blockquote&gt;

And that’s what bugs me so much about that NYT column; here’s a guy who recognizes that he doesn’t have healthy views about sex and respect and relationships, and he’s going to go slowly and tentatively until he really understands how it’s supposed to work. And here’s this woman accusing him of being “emasculated” because he’s not “aggressive” enough. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s so much that he&#039;s going slowly and tentatively; I think there&#039;s a good chance that he came to an understanding of what he did, and was sick with himself. 

(I kind of hope that&#039;s the case. It&#039;d be an appropriate reaction.)

Since she can&#039;t come to grips with the idea that he did something terribly wrong, she couldn&#039;t understand what he was going through enough to deal with it. If she&#039;d accepted that, yes, there should be a huge load of guilt and shame he was working through, and it&#039;s appropriate for him to be trying to feel out the limits once again, they probably could have worked things out. 

But since the only thing she couldn&#039;t accept what he did, there wasn&#039;t much hope. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ACG</p>
<blockquote>
<p>And that’s what bugs me so much about that NYT column; here’s a guy who recognizes that he doesn’t have healthy views about sex and respect and relationships, and he’s going to go slowly and tentatively until he really understands how it’s supposed to work. And here’s this woman accusing him of being “emasculated” because he’s not “aggressive” enough. </p></blockquote>
<p>Well, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s so much that he&#8217;s going slowly and tentatively; I think there&#8217;s a good chance that he came to an understanding of what he did, and was sick with himself. </p>
<p>(I kind of hope that&#8217;s the case. It&#8217;d be an appropriate reaction.)</p>
<p>Since she can&#8217;t come to grips with the idea that he did something terribly wrong, she couldn&#8217;t understand what he was going through enough to deal with it. If she&#8217;d accepted that, yes, there should be a huge load of guilt and shame he was working through, and it&#8217;s appropriate for him to be trying to feel out the limits once again, they probably could have worked things out. </p>
<p>But since the only thing she couldn&#8217;t accept what he did, there wasn&#8217;t much hope.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ACG</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83655</link>
		<dc:creator>ACG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83655</guid>
		<description>The &quot;no doesn&#039;t really mean no, right?&quot; problem is one that has always astounded me.  It&#039;s not something you run into in a lot of other areas of life.  &quot;Are you hungry?  I was thinking Arby&#039;s.&quot;  &quot;No, I just ate.&quot;  &quot;So, when you say you &lt;i&gt;just ate,&lt;/i&gt; what you really mean is you could go for a burger, right?&quot;  Cut to force-feeding.

&quot;That&#039;s an awesome car.  Don&#039;t suppose it&#039;s for sale?&quot;  &quot;Actually, I spent a lot of time restoring it, and I want to hang on to it.&quot;  &quot;Don&#039;t be coy.  You know you want to sell it to me.&quot;  Cut to grand theft auto.

But when it&#039;s about sex, and when it&#039;s a woman involved, it&#039;s perfectly okay for the Aggressive Male has to keep pushing until she consents grudgingly - or doesn&#039;t consent at all.  And because Aggressive Male is supposed to be a good thing, guys don&#039;t make the connection between (and not to trivialize rape here) the violent rapist who shoves the burger down your throat and the acquaintance rapist who just won&#039;t acknowledge that you&#039;re not hungry.

And that&#039;s what bugs me so much about that NYT column; here&#039;s a guy who recognizes that he doesn&#039;t have healthy views about sex and respect and relationships, and he&#039;s going to go slowly and tentatively until he really understands how it&#039;s supposed to work.  And here&#039;s this woman accusing him of being &quot;emasculated&quot; because he&#039;s not &quot;aggressive&quot; enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;no doesn&#8217;t really mean no, right?&#8221; problem is one that has always astounded me.  It&#8217;s not something you run into in a lot of other areas of life.  &#8220;Are you hungry?  I was thinking Arby&#8217;s.&#8221;  &#8220;No, I just ate.&#8221;  &#8220;So, when you say you <i>just ate,</i> what you really mean is you could go for a burger, right?&#8221;  Cut to force-feeding.</p>
<p>&#8220;That&#8217;s an awesome car.  Don&#8217;t suppose it&#8217;s for sale?&#8221;  &#8220;Actually, I spent a lot of time restoring it, and I want to hang on to it.&#8221;  &#8220;Don&#8217;t be coy.  You know you want to sell it to me.&#8221;  Cut to grand theft auto.</p>
<p>But when it&#8217;s about sex, and when it&#8217;s a woman involved, it&#8217;s perfectly okay for the Aggressive Male has to keep pushing until she consents grudgingly &#8211; or doesn&#8217;t consent at all.  And because Aggressive Male is supposed to be a good thing, guys don&#8217;t make the connection between (and not to trivialize rape here) the violent rapist who shoves the burger down your throat and the acquaintance rapist who just won&#8217;t acknowledge that you&#8217;re not hungry.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s what bugs me so much about that NYT column; here&#8217;s a guy who recognizes that he doesn&#8217;t have healthy views about sex and respect and relationships, and he&#8217;s going to go slowly and tentatively until he really understands how it&#8217;s supposed to work.  And here&#8217;s this woman accusing him of being &#8220;emasculated&#8221; because he&#8217;s not &#8220;aggressive&#8221; enough.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Amanda Marcotte</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83636</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda Marcotte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/17/because-those-bitches-is-crazy/#comment-83636</guid>
		<description>Jill, I usually reserve this one for Chris Clarke, but you are SUCH a wonderful writer.  

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jill, I usually reserve this one for Chris Clarke, but you are SUCH a wonderful writer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
