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	<title>Comments on: Porn Problem: HDTV Reveals Porn Actresses to be Real Women</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:14:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-85072</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-85072</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Moral? Philosphical is a better way to describe it, and that’s being generous. Usually philosphy also addresses the responsibilities that come with rights.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m confused. I believe that all people have the right to be treated as human beings. I believe that all people have a responsibility to treat other people as human beings -- to not exploit, harm, or dehumanize individual people or classes of people. That&#039;s a pretty basic tenet of feminist thought. 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moral&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Moral&lt;/a&gt;: 	&lt;em&gt;of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical.&lt;/em&gt;

I&#039;d say feminism does this, no? We separate right from wrong all the time. Just because we don&#039;t derive our ideas of rights from what we think God says doesn&#039;t mean that we aren&#039;t discussing morality. 
&lt;blockquote&gt;
What we’re more likely to get here “all the time” is hateful mockery and over-the-top sarcasm (quite funny at times in a stand-up comedic sort of way), that follows a desperate, frantic attempt to find kooks at the opposite end of the spectrum to react against.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Frantic attempts to find kooks at the opposite end of the spectrum to react against? Reading the New York Times and posting on one of its most-emailed articles is a &quot;frantic attempt&quot;? Try again. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Moral? Philosphical is a better way to describe it, and that’s being generous. Usually philosphy also addresses the responsibilities that come with rights.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m confused. I believe that all people have the right to be treated as human beings. I believe that all people have a responsibility to treat other people as human beings &#8212; to not exploit, harm, or dehumanize individual people or classes of people. That&#8217;s a pretty basic tenet of feminist thought. </p>
<p><a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moral" rel="nofollow">Moral</a>: 	<em>of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical.</em></p>
<p>I&#8217;d say feminism does this, no? We separate right from wrong all the time. Just because we don&#8217;t derive our ideas of rights from what we think God says doesn&#8217;t mean that we aren&#8217;t discussing morality. </p>
<blockquote><p>
What we’re more likely to get here “all the time” is hateful mockery and over-the-top sarcasm (quite funny at times in a stand-up comedic sort of way), that follows a desperate, frantic attempt to find kooks at the opposite end of the spectrum to react against.</p></blockquote>
<p>Frantic attempts to find kooks at the opposite end of the spectrum to react against? Reading the New York Times and posting on one of its most-emailed articles is a &#8220;frantic attempt&#8221;? Try again.</p>
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		<title>By: zuzu</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-85069</link>
		<dc:creator>zuzu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-85069</guid>
		<description>Fran, if you don&#039;t like it here, you&#039;re welcome to fuck right the hell off.

And what cats?  We haven&#039;t done Friday cat blogging in a long time. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fran, if you don&#8217;t like it here, you&#8217;re welcome to fuck right the hell off.</p>
<p>And what cats?  We haven&#8217;t done Friday cat blogging in a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: Fran</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-85068</link>
		<dc:creator>Fran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-85068</guid>
		<description>Moral? Philosphical is a better way to describe it, and that&#039;s being generous. Usually philosphy also addresses the responsibilities that come with rights. What we&#039;re more likely to get here &quot;all the time&quot; is hateful mockery and over-the-top sarcasm (quite funny at times in a stand-up comedic sort of way), that follows a desperate, frantic attempt to find kooks at the opposite end of the spectrum to react against.

Plus there&#039;s all the goddam cats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moral? Philosphical is a better way to describe it, and that&#8217;s being generous. Usually philosphy also addresses the responsibilities that come with rights. What we&#8217;re more likely to get here &#8220;all the time&#8221; is hateful mockery and over-the-top sarcasm (quite funny at times in a stand-up comedic sort of way), that follows a desperate, frantic attempt to find kooks at the opposite end of the spectrum to react against.</p>
<p>Plus there&#8217;s all the goddam cats.</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84963</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jan 2007 04:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84963</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You bring up a subset of porn that few here will deny deny as horrifying. You stuck your neck out on this site, however, by alluding it having a ‘moral’ dimension. Kudos to you.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wha?

We talk about the moral dimension to pornography all the time -- specifically if porn fits into our feminist and human rights ideals. We may not toss around the word &quot;morality,&quot; but that doesn&#039;t mean that we aren&#039;t having a discussion about it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You bring up a subset of porn that few here will deny deny as horrifying. You stuck your neck out on this site, however, by alluding it having a ‘moral’ dimension. Kudos to you.</p></blockquote>
<p>Wha?</p>
<p>We talk about the moral dimension to pornography all the time &#8212; specifically if porn fits into our feminist and human rights ideals. We may not toss around the word &#8220;morality,&#8221; but that doesn&#8217;t mean that we aren&#8217;t having a discussion about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Fran</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84957</link>
		<dc:creator>Fran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jan 2007 04:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84957</guid>
		<description>Nobody,
You bring up a subset of porn that few here will deny deny as  horrifying.  You stuck your neck out on this site, however, by alluding it having a &#039;moral&#039; dimension. Kudos to you. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody,<br />
You bring up a subset of porn that few here will deny deny as  horrifying.  You stuck your neck out on this site, however, by alluding it having a &#8216;moral&#8217; dimension. Kudos to you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Nobody</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84818</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84818</guid>
		<description>If there were more of a market for pretty boy straight porn, there&#039;d be more of it. Men buy most porn (for whatever reason); straight men tend to be indifferent to the physical beauty of the male objects (with the exception that there&#039;s a market for extraordinarily large, um, reproductive appendages; it&#039;s not really beauty, but it&#039;s of a piece with giant weirdly-shaped breasts). Porn is largely crap. Maybe exclusively, I&#039;m not sufficiently well versed to know. The talent isn&#039;t picked for the content of its character, so I don&#039;t have much sympathy over their having to endure what are morally neutral, if not particularly noble, job requirements.

To me, there&#039;s more moral fodder in the specialization. Relatively pretty women can make money doing low risk, mainstream porn. Less attractive women end up doing the circus act, woman-hater stuff, like simultaneous, multiple insertions into any given orifice. The woman who went by the name Laura Roxx ended up with HIV because she wasn&#039;t pretty enough to get a vanilla porn gig. That&#039;s an extreme example, but the physical toll of gonzo porn generally is a little horrifying. Leaving aside how horrifying the market it caters to is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there were more of a market for pretty boy straight porn, there&#8217;d be more of it. Men buy most porn (for whatever reason); straight men tend to be indifferent to the physical beauty of the male objects (with the exception that there&#8217;s a market for extraordinarily large, um, reproductive appendages; it&#8217;s not really beauty, but it&#8217;s of a piece with giant weirdly-shaped breasts). Porn is largely crap. Maybe exclusively, I&#8217;m not sufficiently well versed to know. The talent isn&#8217;t picked for the content of its character, so I don&#8217;t have much sympathy over their having to endure what are morally neutral, if not particularly noble, job requirements.</p>
<p>To me, there&#8217;s more moral fodder in the specialization. Relatively pretty women can make money doing low risk, mainstream porn. Less attractive women end up doing the circus act, woman-hater stuff, like simultaneous, multiple insertions into any given orifice. The woman who went by the name Laura Roxx ended up with HIV because she wasn&#8217;t pretty enough to get a vanilla porn gig. That&#8217;s an extreme example, but the physical toll of gonzo porn generally is a little horrifying. Leaving aside how horrifying the market it caters to is.</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84784</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 00:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84784</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What should be the standards that “they” set for men? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

&quot;Able to keep it up for an unnatural amount of time&quot; seems to be the only one. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What should be the standards that “they” set for men? </p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;Able to keep it up for an unnatural amount of time&#8221; seems to be the only one.</p>
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		<title>By: zuzu</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84725</link>
		<dc:creator>zuzu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84725</guid>
		<description>&quot;Hot&quot; would be a start, Fran.  

Duh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Hot&#8221; would be a start, Fran.  </p>
<p>Duh.</p>
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		<title>By: Fran</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84675</link>
		<dc:creator>Fran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:00:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84675</guid>
		<description>So Sheelzebub,
What should be the standards that &quot;they&quot; set for men?  Didn&#039;t like the hedgehog look? What kind of men would you like to see?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Sheelzebub,<br />
What should be the standards that &#8220;they&#8221; set for men?  Didn&#8217;t like the hedgehog look? What kind of men would you like to see?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Vera Venom</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84559</link>
		<dc:creator>Vera Venom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/22/porn-problem-hdtv-reveals-porn-actresses-to-be-real-women/#comment-84559</guid>
		<description>&quot;While men tend to like their fantasy more visually focused, women tend to indulge in novels that portray a rather two dimensional vision of romance &quot;

Could we stuff more inane stereotypes into one sentence.  I&#039;m sure we could work in &quot;boys will be boys&quot; and a &quot;girls wear pink&quot; in there too.   
;)


&quot;You can’t have not-so-hot guys in porn and demand the chicks be perfect, and then blather on and on about how women just aren’t visually oriented or sexual. It’s a nice, passive-aggressive way to justify entitlement, but it’s not reality. &quot;

BINGO.  
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;While men tend to like their fantasy more visually focused, women tend to indulge in novels that portray a rather two dimensional vision of romance &#8221;</p>
<p>Could we stuff more inane stereotypes into one sentence.  I&#8217;m sure we could work in &#8220;boys will be boys&#8221; and a &#8220;girls wear pink&#8221; in there too.<br />
;)</p>
<p>&#8220;You can’t have not-so-hot guys in porn and demand the chicks be perfect, and then blather on and on about how women just aren’t visually oriented or sexual. It’s a nice, passive-aggressive way to justify entitlement, but it’s not reality. &#8221;</p>
<p>BINGO.</p>
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