Comments on: The Real Stumbling Block: Movement http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/ In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set. Fri, 19 Mar 2010 22:23:27 +0000 hourly 1 By: DancinKat http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-85124 DancinKat Sun, 28 Jan 2007 02:31:50 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-85124 What I find the most offensive is that the survey says that "tights, leotards, and tutus" worn in dance and theatrical performances are a stumbling block. As someone who dances recreationally, I just want to scream, "Well, goddamn, how can I do a friggin pirouette in a burka?!?!" Those leotards and tights are the tools of our trade, and no in my dance classes finds them the least provocative, even my *gasp* MALE tap teacher. Maybe those boys shouldn't ever attend the ballet, lest they broaden their minds beyond their fundie-ism. Girls have bodies, and nothing will hide that fact. What I find the most offensive is that the survey says that “tights, leotards, and tutus” worn in dance and theatrical performances are a stumbling block. As someone who dances recreationally, I just want to scream, “Well, goddamn, how can I do a friggin pirouette in a burka?!?!” Those leotards and tights are the tools of our trade, and no in my dance classes finds them the least provocative, even my *gasp* MALE tap teacher.
Maybe those boys shouldn’t ever attend the ballet, lest they broaden their minds beyond their fundie-ism.
Girls have bodies, and nothing will hide that fact.

]]> By: bekabot http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84799 bekabot Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:18:57 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84799 <em>Stumbling blocks.</em> How lame is that? Doesn't a teenage boy have any moral status of his own? Doesn't he have any ownership of his body and his actions? Is the accountability for so much of he thinks and does to be put down to the fact that sometimes girls of his own age walk, stretch, and sweat, such that once in a while he can actually see them doing it? Are boys and men really that pathetic? If they are, then why the heck should they still be running things? "My moral foundation trembles on its bearings, because every so often I get a good gape at the girl-next-door's <em>exposed lower back</em>." <em>What</em> crap. Bugs that live in floorboards have more self-determination than this. My Cowflop Detector clangs with a wild clamor; this rubbish would have made my conservative/Republican dad <em>gag</em> (tho' possibly this would have been a reaction conditioned on the circumstance that he had two daughters and no sons). Stumbling blocks. How lame is that? Doesn’t a teenage boy have any moral status of his own? Doesn’t he have any ownership of his body and his actions? Is the accountability for so much of he thinks and does to be put down to the fact that sometimes girls of his own age walk, stretch, and sweat, such that once in a while he can actually see them doing it? Are boys and men really that pathetic? If they are, then why the heck should they still be running things? “My moral foundation trembles on its bearings, because every so often I get a good gape at the girl-next-door’s exposed lower back.” What crap. Bugs that live in floorboards have more self-determination than this. My Cowflop Detector clangs with a wild clamor; this rubbish would have made my conservative/Republican dad gag (tho’ possibly this would have been a reaction conditioned on the circumstance that he had two daughters and no sons).

]]> By: DAS http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84776 DAS Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:10:56 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84776 <i>Prairielily, if I had a cigar, you would have just won it.</i> In honor of that comment, an old vaudeville routine: Comic: I'm a very good speller Straight Man: You are? C: Yes. I am. SM: I bet you can't even spell needle. C: I bet I can. SM: OK, you're on. To be fair, we'll let the band leader, George, judge. So spell needle. C: N*E*D*L SM: Is that right George? G: Of course, not. SM: Do you smoke? G: You know I do. SM: Well, here's a cigar. C: Let me try again. I just made one mistake. It's N*I*E*D*L, isn't it? SM: Is that right George? G: Of course, not. SM: Do you smoke? G: You know I do. You just asked. SM: Well, here's a cigar. C: I know -- it's N*I*E*D*E*L SM: Is that -- C: Let me ask this time. SM: OK, ask away C: Is that right George? G: I guess so. C: Do you smoke? G: Yes, I just told your friend twice that I did. C: OK, here's a <i>match</i>! So, following up on Mnemosyne's comment, Prairielily ... if I had a match, you would just have won it! ;) Prairielily, if I had a cigar, you would have just won it.

In honor of that comment, an old vaudeville routine:

Comic: I’m a very good speller
Straight Man: You are?
C: Yes. I am.
SM: I bet you can’t even spell needle.
C: I bet I can.
SM: OK, you’re on. To be fair, we’ll let the band leader, George, judge. So spell needle.
C: N*E*D*L
SM: Is that right George?
G: Of course, not.
SM: Do you smoke?
G: You know I do.
SM: Well, here’s a cigar.
C: Let me try again. I just made one mistake. It’s N*I*E*D*L, isn’t it?
SM: Is that right George?
G: Of course, not.
SM: Do you smoke?
G: You know I do. You just asked.
SM: Well, here’s a cigar.
C: I know — it’s N*I*E*D*E*L
SM: Is that –
C: Let me ask this time.
SM: OK, ask away
C: Is that right George?
G: I guess so.
C: Do you smoke?
G: Yes, I just told your friend twice that I did.
C: OK, here’s a match!

So, following up on Mnemosyne’s comment, Prairielily … if I had a match, you would just have won it! ;)

]]> By: mythago http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84757 mythago Thu, 25 Jan 2007 20:40:04 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84757 <i>My mother wore a burka in college in Pakistan, and she says that she still got heckled and stared at all the time. Men gather around the gates of womens’ colleges to make comments when they come out.</i> Interesting how that works, isn't it? I spent my first year at college in a small, women-only dorm, and we were CONSTANTLY harassed. The doors had to be locked 24/7 because guys would otherwise let themselves in, they'd hang out at night and try to grab people, etc. None of this ever happened at the unlocked, co-ed dorm I moved to later. My mother wore a burka in college in Pakistan, and she says that she still got heckled and stared at all the time. Men gather around the gates of womens’ colleges to make comments when they come out.

Interesting how that works, isn’t it? I spent my first year at college in a small, women-only dorm, and we were CONSTANTLY harassed. The doors had to be locked 24/7 because guys would otherwise let themselves in, they’d hang out at night and try to grab people, etc. None of this ever happened at the unlocked, co-ed dorm I moved to later.

]]> By: Kim http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84754 Kim Thu, 25 Jan 2007 20:28:22 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84754 I suggest they stop staring at women all day. Seriously. That list basically boils down to "women are lustworthy when they are breathing." Why not just raise the sexes separately? You see a girl for the first time when you're marrying her. That would be less tiring for the female population at least, since when boys are around they have to precalculate their every move, lest someone pop a boner. People are so stupid sometimes. I suggest they stop staring at women all day. Seriously. That list basically boils down to “women are lustworthy when they are breathing.”

Why not just raise the sexes separately? You see a girl for the first time when you’re marrying her. That would be less tiring for the female population at least, since when boys are around they have to precalculate their every move, lest someone pop a boner.

People are so stupid sometimes.

]]> By: Mnemosyne http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84748 Mnemosyne Thu, 25 Jan 2007 20:03:53 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84748 <blockquote>So they’re asking the boys what they can wear, but they don’t realise that it doesn’t MATTER what they wear, because teenage boys are horny and will stare at them regardless. Even if they’re wearing a burka.</blockquote> Prairielily, if I had a cigar, you would have just won it.

So they’re asking the boys what they can wear, but they don’t realise that it doesn’t MATTER what they wear, because teenage boys are horny and will stare at them regardless. Even if they’re wearing a burka.

Prairielily, if I had a cigar, you would have just won it.

]]> By: trillian http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84741 trillian Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:31:16 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84741 It occurs to me that these are <i>teenagers</i>, a species wired to obsess about sex, and these particular ones have no permissible outlet for that except to nitpick the minutiae of God's Purity Rules. Other kids get to work through puberty with the help of pop culture, the internet and its porn, Are You There God It's Me Margaret, and usually at least some parental chat about the birds and the bees. It seems like the normal, awkward milestones of adolescence are warped by the mindset these kids have been raised with: the boys get a boner, and the only way they've been taught to react to that is to seek out and scapegoat a source for their "sin;" the girls see a more developed body in the locker room, and channel their insecurity into sanctimoniousness, etc. It's the parent's fault for indoctrinating their children this way, and hopefully at least some of the kids will grow out of it (as several people on this board seem to have done), but for the time being I think that we can probably read this survey and its amount of detail as sadly misdirected expressions of normal teenage horniness. It occurs to me that these are teenagers, a species wired to obsess about sex, and these particular ones have no permissible outlet for that except to nitpick the minutiae of God’s Purity Rules. Other kids get to work through puberty with the help of pop culture, the internet and its porn, Are You There God It’s Me Margaret, and usually at least some parental chat about the birds and the bees. It seems like the normal, awkward milestones of adolescence are warped by the mindset these kids have been raised with: the boys get a boner, and the only way they’ve been taught to react to that is to seek out and scapegoat a source for their “sin;” the girls see a more developed body in the locker room, and channel their insecurity into sanctimoniousness, etc. It’s the parent’s fault for indoctrinating their children this way, and hopefully at least some of the kids will grow out of it (as several people on this board seem to have done), but for the time being I think that we can probably read this survey and its amount of detail as sadly misdirected expressions of normal teenage horniness.

]]> By: Tara http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84719 Tara Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:20:59 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84719 Basically, anything a 'girl' or woman does is a stumbling block to these types of males, and also male-identified girls and women. The more I read over the excerpted list, the more disturbed I get because this so denies the humanity of girls and women. And, it also illustrates that it's not even a possibility (nor a desire goal, in fact) to see girls and women as equals...just as objects that they only want to see in certain ways. And, they thought they were nice Christian males. Pretty sick, when you think of it. And, as others mention, this ultimately reinforces rape culture, and also the loss of women's rights and visibility (e.g., to go into public spaces), because it reinforces that (a) there are things that girls and women do that they shouldn't and (b) boys can't control themselves when they encounter these "stumbling blocks" (i.e., people living their lives). Ugh. Basically, anything a ‘girl’ or woman does is a stumbling block to these types of males, and also male-identified girls and women. The more I read over the excerpted list, the more disturbed I get because this so denies the humanity of girls and women. And, it also illustrates that it’s not even a possibility (nor a desire goal, in fact) to see girls and women as equals…just as objects that they only want to see in certain ways. And, they thought they were nice Christian males. Pretty sick, when you think of it. And, as others mention, this ultimately reinforces rape culture, and also the loss of women’s rights and visibility (e.g., to go into public spaces), because it reinforces that (a) there are things that girls and women do that they shouldn’t and (b) boys can’t control themselves when they encounter these “stumbling blocks” (i.e., people living their lives). Ugh.

]]> By: prairielily http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84717 prairielily Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:13:57 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84717 Come, people, no more burka jokes. My mother wore a burka in college in Pakistan, and she says that she still got heckled and stared at all the time. Men gather around the gates of womens' colleges to make comments when they come out. People there just consider it normal, and sometimes there's even back and forth flirtation, but in my opinion, the men only there to remind the women that even though they're going to college, they're still only women and exist to submit to men. But I've been drinking the feminist koolaid. ;) I've also heard a few guys comment that burkas just make them more curious as to what's underneath. I have a friend who works with a woman who wears a burka, and he's mildly obsessed with how beautiful her eyes are. The point is, I feel really sorry for these girls. They're in their teens, and uncomfortable with male attention. (That's ok, even if it motivated by fundamentalism and they might not care otherwise.) So they're asking the boys what they can wear, but they don't realise that it doesn't MATTER what they wear, because teenage boys are horny and will stare at them regardless. Even if they're wearing a burka. Come, people, no more burka jokes. My mother wore a burka in college in Pakistan, and she says that she still got heckled and stared at all the time. Men gather around the gates of womens’ colleges to make comments when they come out. People there just consider it normal, and sometimes there’s even back and forth flirtation, but in my opinion, the men only there to remind the women that even though they’re going to college, they’re still only women and exist to submit to men. But I’ve been drinking the feminist koolaid. ;)

I’ve also heard a few guys comment that burkas just make them more curious as to what’s underneath. I have a friend who works with a woman who wears a burka, and he’s mildly obsessed with how beautiful her eyes are.

The point is, I feel really sorry for these girls. They’re in their teens, and uncomfortable with male attention. (That’s ok, even if it motivated by fundamentalism and they might not care otherwise.) So they’re asking the boys what they can wear, but they don’t realise that it doesn’t MATTER what they wear, because teenage boys are horny and will stare at them regardless. Even if they’re wearing a burka.

]]> By: Bach-us http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84715 Bach-us Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:11:22 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/01/24/the-real-stumbling-block-movement/#comment-84715 <blockquote>In other words, you can keep sitting cross-legged in pants. I really don’t mind. </blockquote> Wow, thanks! I'm so glad that I have your permission.

In other words, you can keep sitting cross-legged in pants. I really don’t mind.

Wow, thanks! I’m so glad that I have your permission.

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