The whole country is going to take a left turn.

Rlh? Is that you, punkin’?

Hillary will win this one I think. The whole country is going to take a left turn.

If a Republican candidate hired Vox Day, none of us would accept “oh, he wrote all that sexist shit before I hired him, he’ll stop now”. At least, I’d hope not.

How else would you read the language and the power dynamic there?

I don’t read it as Amanda and Melissa infantilizing themselves and melting into submissive little puddles when Big Man wags his finger at them. Perhaps it’s just me, but I think that’s a pretty fucking insulting way to look at Amanda and Melissa–unless you really do think they’ve sold out to The Man.

What do they satirize?

Fair point. I think the explanation of inside/outside voices was aimed at the critics rather than our bloggers, but if others see it differently it’s hard to argue other than that it was clumsily phrased.

How about, “Amanda and Melissa are passionate Americans, I do not agree with all of their opinions, but I cannot fault them for them, and certainly not for words writen before they were employed by my campaign.”

JM, that would have been perfect.

Some others above see Amanda saying her posts were satirical as some sort of disowning of her arguments. I don’t see that. Amanda saying her posts were meant as satire doesn’t mean that she’s saying they were just a joke and weren’t meant seriously. Personally I take satire very seriously as it points out how various emperors have no clothes. Pointing out that her posts are satirical indicates that the satirist injects hyperbole and contrarianism for effect, not that it’s “just a joke”. Different thing entirely.

Will this be a debate as commonly understood, ie, one with plural sides? Or is it an academic “debate” (also sometimes advertised as a “discussion”) in which the contestants don’t really disagree?

I don’t know if you were responding to me, but it occurs to me I may not have been articulate enough. I don’t think critiquing a religion’s relevance to political ideology is offensive. I don’t think Amanda does either. Nor do I think she was saying “your religion sucks and you’re stupid” (though, thank god, the wonderful PZ Meyers does).

However, we both know that religionists will be offended by any criticism of their beliefs. So, even if it wasn’t your purpose to offend, you know people will be offended. Especially when you joke about using Plan B the morning after being spooged upon by god.

As for me, well, let’s just say that I’m not convinced that Edwards’ spine is actually made of good, strong material. I think his response was the least insulting and paternalistic of the many possible insulting and paternalistic responses, but I’d've been much happier had he chose to respond with spine and strength instead of with the least-wussy of several wussy possibilities.

IOW, I think he showed throat when he shouldn’t have, and this concerns me. If he’ll give even this much ground to the right-wing noise machine, this soon and over this trivial an issue, how much faster will he throw the rest of us under the bus when the wingnuts start bitching that much louder?

Basically, John-Ed m’boy, you cost yourself my respect, and you’re gonna have to work like hell to win it back. I’m willing to wait and see if he’s learned anything from this—specifically that anything less than “shut your yap, you lying hypocrite” (except in more polite, more politic tones) won’t quite do—–or if he’ll attach his spine to his brain and make ‘em work together, but honestly, my first—ok, second, since my first impression of strong spininess was formed by his hiring of Amanda in the first place—–impression is that he’ll cave like an unsupported roof the second someone says “BOO!” loudly enough.

He nearly caved this time. He’s gonna have to show a LOT more reproductive fortitude* than he’s demonstrated thus far to convince me he’s not another wimpy twit that’ll roll over and show throat at the first sign of Rethug disapproval. That’s NOT who I want as President, and Edwards is now going to have to prove to me that that is not who he is. ‘Cause right now, I think he’s a wuss who tried to please everyone, and wound up pleasing no one, instead of a strong, compassionate leader who understands the difference between personal and professional, and will stand up for idividuals. Wussiness is not a Presidential quality, if you ask me (which I know nobody has, but hey).

*this covers brass balls as well as my (and Amanda, and Shakes’) diamond ovaries

I’ve heard a lot of the former from Amanda, not so much of the latter, unless she was being purposefully tongue-in-cheek.

I’m not familiar enough with FB to know their religious viewpoints, but I don’t think they were stating thet they, personally, found Amanda’s Church of the Mouse and Disco Ball to be offensive.

I don’t know, maybe they did, but the larger point–that Amanda is intentionally provocative and holds little respect for religion or faith-based thinking–stands. The church thing is definately satire, and a tongue-in-cheek way to show up the silliness of religion. Of all the things she’s written, it’s probably got the lowest quotient of offensiveness to the religious. The posts that got quoted in the original furor (jesus jism, and such), may have been satirical as well, but were most definitely meant to offend.

I’ve been reading (and admiring) Amanda long enough to know that she’s not out just to throw bombs–there’s a larger, much more in-depth criticism being made. The outrageousness is in the service of catching your attention and pointing out the absurdity of whatever viewpoint she’s dissecting. So, while it’s true that her purpose may not have been to offend anyone, the effect was certainly calculated for.

Don’t get me wrong, that’s what I love about her writing, and I don’t think she has anything to apologize for, which is why I’m bothered by her being forced to apologize and act like she didn’t expect anyone to take her views seriously. Of course, I didn’t expect Edwards to come out and say he supported everything Amanda has written, or the style she uses, but I also didn’t expect him to verbally scold her in public. That’s what I think people have a problem with. He could have easily dismissed this in a way more like Alon’s comment. What and how Amanda wrote on her own blog in the past is her business. She’s smart enough to know how to cater her style to the audience she’s trying to reach, and I seriously doubt anyone expected her to use Edward’s blog as her own, personal platform. That’s what she has Pandagon for.