I appreciate Feministe, for sure, and thank you for starting it. I still think, on this issue, that the responses to this issue, even on this site, aren’t as reflexive as they could be…

And, I understand there being many personal, particular reasons for ‘marrying.’ But, my goal was to discuss marriage privilege (and its visibility and our notions of ‘tolerance’ and support of gay rights) as more of a political issue.

No personal attacks on you.

And to further clarify, because I can’t shut up, I’m a little pissed that I’m not as anonymous as I’d like to be because the reasons I’m alluding to are definitely relevant to the discussion of marriage in a political context, especially in a state that is attempting to further moralize the definition of marriage not only in the state constitution but in the family courts. It’s a blatantly feminist issue I can’t discuss on a public forum, I regret, because certain people do read this site and my new site.

So, it becomes easy for you to see others “moralizing” about your choices. You see yourself as being oppressed, but you don’t see yourself as oppressing anyone else.

Is this a hypothetical “you”?

That’s all I can say about that.

I would just like you to focus on the critiques of feminism that have focused on how racism, heterosexism, and classism have been reproduced within feminism.

That’s partly why I started Feministe.

But, you see, you’re not being attacked , though I understand how it may feel like that (see what Joseph says toward the end of his excellent post). Why is the focus still not on lgbt people and their being denied rights, citizenship, and recognition? Why isn’t the focus being put on how hetero practices, including those of progressive-identified people, might contribute to that marginalization? I see so many people feeling put upon with having to ‘defend’ themselves from critique and wonder why there is no focus on the clear suffering of lgbt people because of the practices straight-identified people engage in.

Seeing the critique of hetero marriage privilege as something akin to feminists being chastized for their use of makeup (not made with animals, we’re talking about), for example, puts the focus strictly on hetero women, who are made to be the victims of others’ criticisms, and whose contested practices aren’t implicated in a loss of rights for others. So, it becomes easy for you to see others “moralizing” about your choices. You see yourself as being oppressed, but you don’t see yourself as oppressing anyone else. You see your marriage practices as a personal choice that shouldn’t be ‘flayed’ by a public audience. Who exactly made this public in posting the announcement of your wedding reception in a public forum? (That’s the tremendous visibility and coerciveness of normative heterosexuality in practice, the freedom to discuss and celebrate it everywhere and all the time — something that is sponsored by the invisbility and demonization of homosexuality.)

I don’t see anyone considering the argument that they (and not just the government) reproduce social inequality; hence, the response is that heterosexuals choosing to not marry is bad because they, too, will be denied the rights due to every citizen (and why should they suffer, too?). (And, then, in a rhetorical, guilt-reducing move I can’t quite fathom, heterosexuals choosing to marry become noble heroes who are going to transform the institution of marriage through their radicalism, to save marriage from the fundamentalists, to be the advocates we desperately need, on the inside, to ‘fight like hell’ to rewrite marriage laws for gay people, on and on!)

I would just like you to focus on the critiques of feminism that have focused on how racism, heterosexism, and classism have been reproduced within feminism.

Maybe, but that’s not what I was referring to. Over the last couple of years feminist bloggers have had to defend everything from their veganism to their sexual practices to their parenting to their use of or lack of makeup and now our marital status or lack thereof, etc., again and again and again. I’m not suggesting that these aren’t conversations worth having whatsoever, but I’m not about to flay my personal life for a public audience again just because someone is offended by my relative privilege. Let’s just say that some people knowingly enter arrangements that they’d like alternatives to because the other alternatives available to them are relatively dangerous. Furthermore, that these hypothetical people are loathe to rationalize their reasons on a public forum for a public audience because (in their paranoid wisdom) certain others might be reading.

Not that I disagree with your statements at all, Tara, I just want to clarify my external sigh.

note that although i find the institution to be unnecessary and don’t think it should really exist, i do think that if others are being allowed to get married, then gay people certainly should be able to get married. didn’t wanna confuse anyone with that.

Mostly, I’m tired of justifying every decision to everybody with an opinion.

Having privilege is what allows you to feel like you’re always on edge and being asked a lot of, in the same way that many people, who’ve lost/struggled to maintain their material or symbolic power over the last 50-60 years (white men…and women, colonial subjects, Western nations, etc.), have felt a loss of self when their claims to power were challenged.

I understand resenting the system that prevents them from getting those rights.

I’m not sure I fully understand aiming the resentment at people who’re trying to help, though. If someone is suggesting “Look, both of us think it’s bullshit that I’m beind denied certain rights, but I think you should refuse to take those rights, or, at the very least, you shouldn’t express happiness at declaring your commitment to your partner because of this” I don’t get that. I don’t. I don’t resent my friends and allies when they enjoy rights that everyone should have, even if I’ve been unfairly denied them. I’m happy for my friends and allies. I’m angry at whatever system is denying rights to people who deserve them. Is that common? Do people usually resent their allies and friends when they enjoy rights that everyone ought to have access to?

We are allies. Marriage may not be for everyone, but everyone should have the option. If someone doesn’t want to get married, I’m totally behind that. I have no intention of getting married, either. On the other hand, nobody who wants to get married should be denied it, and the rights that come from it should be available to everyone. Well… or no-one. I’m fine either way, personally. The point is, things aren’t even, and I sort of felt like all of us were there- we agreed with that.

I don’t know what makes anyone think that any of us have the magic answer to what can be done to help, though.

That’s what makes this frustrating for everyone, I imagine. Just because I’m straight doesn’t mean that I have the magic answer, either. It doesn’t mean that I know what it will take to get justice. Both sides think that the anger is misdirected. Maybe it is.

So, yeah. I understand the resentment, and I understand being hyper-pissed about it. What I’m angry about isn’t “privileged people being resented for their privilege” it’s a group of people being denied access to privileges that they have every right to expect, but are being unfairly prevented from enjoying. It doesn’t make sense to me to resent allies for getting married- they’re enjoying a privilege that we should all have anyway.

I don’t expect to be praised for being a good person, but I don’t expect to be shamed or derided for enjoying rights that we should all have when I’m doing what I can to help people who’ve been unfairly denied those rights. I don’t expect my friends to be derided for enjoying rights we should all have when they’re doing what they can to help.

I think everyone here agrees that there’s a problem. So, what can we do about it?