From the Department of Pussy Mutilation

From Chicklet, who always sends me the most disturbing links: many doctors are questioning Laser Vaginal Rejuvenation™, one of the latest plastic-surgery gimmicks that have been created to fill a manufactured “need” for some bizarro standard of perfection. The “need” in this case is for a pretty, perfect, tight pussy.

LVR is the creation of “Dr. 90210,” and the exact procedure is kept tightly under wraps:

At issue is a specific procedure known by insiders as “Laser Vaginal Rejuvenation,” or LVR. It was developed in the 1990s by a Beverly Hills gynecologist, Dr. David Matlock, the vaginal guru who makes regular appearances on cable television’s “Dr. 90210.” He was also one of the first doctors to advertise his vaginal surgeries on billboards that read, “You Won’t Believe How Good Sex Can Be.”

A few years ago, Miklos and Moore attended Matlock’s three-day seminar at the Laser Vaginal Institute on Sunset Boulevard, paying more than $50,000 for training in Matlock’s proprietary surgical methods.

Included in the price was an agreement to lease the laser equipment and business tips on how to transform their practices from insurance-based reimbursements to a self-pay model. They also received permission to use Matlock’s trademarked phrase, “Laser Vaginal Rejuvenation,” in promotional materials.

The surgery involves tightening the vaginal muscles and support tissues, as well as reducing extra vaginal lining. Moore calls it a tummy tuck for your vagina.

But outside of doctors who have taken Matlock’s course, no one knows for sure how LVR is done, how it differs from procedures that have been done for years or what makes it unique enough to merit its own name, trademark and hefty price tag.

Some doctors criticize the secrecy. If the procedure makes such a difference in women’s sex lives, they ask, why not share the surgical techniques with everyone?

Why indeed?

Apparently, this kind of surgery was originally developed to help women who had experienced incontinence, vaginal tearing, trauma or abnormalities. Because it’s not exactly new territory, some surgeons are questioning why the secrecy, expense and trademarking:

“It’s totally a gimmick,” said Dr. Mark Walters, head of urogynecology at the Cleveland Clinic. “All they’ve done is repackaged existing gynecological operations that have been in practice for over a hundred years, given them new names and charged their patients more money for them.”

Which, of course, draws a response of You’re Just Jealous from a franchisee:

Miklos downplayed that criticism. “It’s human nature to criticize what someone else is doing, especially if what they’re doing is something” that is innovative, he said.

Dr. “Just Jealous” probably doesn’t want word getting out that, despite the line they’re feeding women, tightening the vagina really doesn’t do much for women’s sexual pleasure:

Walters, at the Cleveland Clinic, said claiming that the surgery will improve a woman’s sexual pleasure is pushing things a bit far. A woman’s vagina plays a small role in determining her level of sexual satisfaction, he said.

“Surgery won’t solve a woman’s problem of having a 2-year-old screaming or a husband who is working all the time,” he said.

In fact, no scientific data back up claims that LVR increases a woman’s sexual pleasure, so the American Urogynecology Society will not formally endorse it. The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology refused to comment.

But you know something? It might give the man a little more of a thrill. Let’s face it, this is probably what this is really all about. It might be sold as “increasing a woman’s sexual pleasure,” but what it really does is feed on women’s anxieties about their bodies, particularly if they’re a little older, if they’ve had kids, and they’re wondering if their husbands still find them sexually attractive. The idea is to play on women’s fears that they’re not good enough as they are, and to dangle the promise of a fix for their insecurities. If only my vagina were a little tighter, the thought goes, maybe Bob would be happier with our sex life, and maybe he’ll stick around. But the marketing goes for an “empowerful” message — this is for YOU! You can undergo painful surgery for your OWN pleasure! You can overcome the horrible deformity that is YOUR body!

Business is booming.

“We have many happy customers,” Miklos said.

Pamela Kirkland is one of them. She said her vagina felt too loose. She and her husband, John, have been married 15 years. They have no children. “Sex was just so unsatisfying,” said Kirkland, 45, of East Dublin, Ga.

She wasn’t willing to give it up, though. “I was 45, not 95. I had a lot of good years left in me to have sex,” Kirkland said. She found Miklos’ and Moore’s Web site and made an appointment to discuss with them what she had been too embarrassed to talk about with friends or her gynecologist.

I really have to wonder if John’s ever gone down on her. Because the clitoris doesn’t get loose. And it’s just disturbing that she’s too embarrassed to talk to her gynecologist — a person who’s seen way more pussies than John has — but she’ll go to a surgeon and go on the record as a satisfied customer. (Indeed, had she brought this up with her gynie, she might have found out earlier she had a prolapsed uterus.)

And, oh, the happy talk from the surgeon. He’s just helping women find the true inner beauty of their pussies!

“This surgery empowers women,” Miklos said. “So many of our patients say, ‘Oh my God, I’m so glad we live in a world where I can be exposed to this and that I was able to see your ad because I was having these problems and now I’ve been able to do something about it,’ ” Miklos said.

Less than 20 percent of Miklos’ practice is made up of women who tell him they want vaginal surgeries because a man criticized the way they looked or felt, he said.

The majority of his patients, he said, opt for aesthetic work because they don’t like the way it looks or because it causes them physical discomfort.

“Those women tell me that someone else pointed it out to them when they were a teenager at a slumber party or that their mother told them it didn’t look right,” Moore said.

And this is a valid reason for surgical intervention?

I’m going to take a wild guess here and suppose that couples in which the woman undergoes LVR (or hymen repair) don’t really talk much about sex. Because I can’t imagine a couple with a healthy ability to discuss sexual issues turning to vaginoplasty as a way to bring a little spark into the relationship. This society is so disordered about sex — it’s everywhere, but try to discuss it like adults, and people freak the fuck out. Long-married couples have sex, but won’t talk about it, won’t raise issues or desires or problems for fear of taking the romance out of sex, or something. People still freak out about the Kinsey Reports, and that was just a description of sexual activity. Add religion into the mix, and you’ve got yourself a recipe for disaster. Especially when you have a doctor with a profit motive.

The doctors charge $4,000 to $20,000 for a vaginoplasty, depending on how much work needs to be done. A labiaplasty costs $4,000 to $6,000. Their practice is considered “boutique” and does not accept insurance.

To Dr. R. Taylor Segraves, a psychiatrist who specializes in sexual dysfunction, the procedure hints of exploitation.

“There’s something wrong when a woman feels her vagina has to live up to some sort of ideal,” Segraves said, sitting in his office at MetroHealth Medical Center.

“The ads and the marketing, it’s making women feel as though they may have a problem when, in fact, they probably do not.”

But I imagine the LVR franchise doesn’t go in for counseling or frank talk about sex as part of their “education” and “creating self-awareness” package for potential patients. Might undercut the business.


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71 Responses to From the Department of Pussy Mutilation

  1. Heraclitus says:

    I don’t understand your comment about the clitoris not getting loose. A woman derives pleasure only from the man’s penis, right? I mean, otherwise…otherwise…

  2. kate says:

    And we are to believe that we are above FGM! Once again, a woman gets the wonderful opportunity to shell out thousands of dollars of hard earned cash in order to become the living embodiment of teenage boy fantasy myth — the ‘tight’ pussy.

    Never mind that like breast augmentation, most surgery is invasive and can often destroy crucial nerve endings permanently and incur numerous health risks. But like every other aspect of the male/female sexual relationship, it is the woman’s responsibility to undergo the knife for whatever other physical/mental/social sacrifice is expected in order to become the ideal fetching fantasy princess.

    So for all her sacrifice, she gets to bathe in the smug satisfaction that she has risen to the call. This then raises her above the rest of the us common woman in the whore/mother/holy wife heirarchy. Hoo-wee score one for the patriarchy!

  3. Rabbit says:

    I’m sure “vaginal guru” looks really nice embroidered on a white coat and all but why does a man who doesn’t even have one get to be dubbed vajayjay super guru of all things vaginal?

    I mean, call me a crazy man-hating feminist but it seems to me that maybe, possibly, someone with dangly bits wouldn’t necessarily have the best insights on vaginal comfort. Because, as a proud vagina owner I have to say, a tight vagina sounds a lot more uncomfortable than it’s cracked up to be.

  4. Mnemosyne says:

    Here’s an idea: if you feel your vagina is too big for your current partner, find a guy with a bigger cock.

    There. Problem solved.

  5. mythago says:

    There’s nothing this surgery can do that Kegel exercises won’t do, and better.

  6. Dylan says:

    This surgery has been researched against Kegel excerise and from preliminary studies Kegels have had better results. This, like the G-Spot shot, are doctors using women to garner profit. Neither of these surgical procedures have been researched for their long term effects, in 20 years your vagina might fall right out of you from them, but hell, women have no idea today, and yet they skip happily into the office. I think sexism, capitalism, and a sex obsessed culture that thrives on instant gratification, bigger and better things, always one upping the next person, uphold these practices and enable them. As the second noter said, if you aren’t enjoying the sex, find someone who you will enjoy it with. Investigate psychological issues that might be effecting your arousal or performance, invest in communication with your partner, not this “quick fix”. Sex is so much more than all of this.

  7. Michelle says:

    I am so disgusted with the whole “vaginal rejuvenation” bit. We are taught to be ashsamed of our bodies if we don’t look like a model. If our breasts are not plump or perky enough, we are encouraged to get surgery. And now, the aesthetics of our vaginas are called into question. What the hell is it supposed to look like anyway?! Should it look like a Georgia O’Keefe calalily? I don’t get it.

  8. Abbey says:

    Actually, from what I’ve heard in the past, surgeries on tissue with lots of nerve-endings (i.e. erogenous zones like the vagina) can result in less ability to feel pleasure. Basically, they’re cutting it up and it heals into scar tissue, which can’t feel much of anything directly. So this stuff has got to be entirely for cosmetic reasons, unless it’s corrective surgery for something that’s painful (and having a tighter vagina sounds like it would, initially at least, cause more pain during sex, not less) or damaged. However, this procedure doesn’t sound like constructive surgery, or anything that would be healthy or pleasurable for a woman at all.

  9. Red Queen says:

    I’m with Mnemosyne.
    Maybe these wives should let thier husbands in on a little secret- every 30 pounds extra a guy carries decreases cock size by half an inch. I suggest they hit a treadmill.

  10. car says:

    I’m with Abby – my first thought was “No one is getting a laser or scalpel anywhere NEAR there, thank you”. My position is that if a man doesn’t like the way it looks, well, no one’s saying he has to have anything to do with it. There was a NYT article awhile back on older women and sex, and one woman summed it up the “older sagging body” issue quite nicely as “If I’m standing in front of you naked and smiling, what’s the problem again?”

  11. Blitzgal says:

    So, this surgery is different than surgery to make the labia look more symmetrical and “pretty,” right? I thought I’d heard that people are getting that done, too. Women are already culturally trained to think their own genitals are gross and dirty. I guess it was only a matter of time before the plastic surgery market swooped in to reap the spoils.

    Man, a hundred years after Freud and people are still believing that “vaginal orgasm” vs “clitoral orgasm” bullshit.

  12. Raging Moderate says:

    but hell, women have no idea today, and yet they skip happily into the office

    Yep, it’s all about supply and demand. Dr. Matlock wouldn’t be in business if not for those women.

  13. Blitzgal says:

    Oops, didn’t finish reading the last quoted portion. But yeah, one is done inside and one is done outside. Labiaplasty. Ugh, it even sounds disgusting, and reminds me of the many women around the world who are forced to get their genitals mutilated.

  14. Penny says:

    re: Bunch of ‘Docs’ named M

    lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalacan’t hear you lalalalalalalala

  15. anna says:

    As the unhappy owner of a tight vagina (sorry if this is TMI, but as long as you brought it up) I can tell you it makes for a painful, miserable sex life. I can’t imagine anyone actually choosing it.

  16. elektrodot says:

    anna:
    hah me too, but not to the point of severe discomfort (still would be alot better if there was some more flexibility in there). funny enough, my bf was baffled since he still beleived the myth that vaginas somehow get looser everytime you have sex.

    on the plus side of the surgery, you can have the option of getting your cut-off labia encased in glass to take home and put on your wall or something. i saw a porn star that did that.

  17. Nomie says:

    Dude, I would love to have a laser installed in my va-

    –wait, what? Oh. That’s much less appealing than a teeny tiny laser cannon.

  18. Rhiannon says:

    I’m with Abby – my first thought was “No one is getting a laser or scalpel anywhere NEAR there, thank you”.

    Seriously.. reminds me of the “Sybil” case we studied in Psychology class. Her mom did things like that to her and she wound up MPD…. so it’s definately creepy thinking about it.

  19. Sarah says:

    IM conversation at work with friend about above article:

    me: I don’t really even know what to say…it’s just so wrong, you know?
    Seriously…really bad problems with AIDS and cancer in the world…
    Lisa: You don’t think having a tight vagina is important?!
    me: I think being validated by a man having sex with me is important
    Well, a man having GOOD sex
    Lisa: It’s always important to get your primary validation from men.
    me: And their penises
    Lisa: And their opinion on your hooha.
    me: Exactly

    Seriously, people…really bad problems with AIDS and cancer going on in the world, and these are the squabbles our brightest and finest are having? And how, if the vaginal problems are as bad as our good doctor claims, is he not fighting more to get it covered by insurance? These are OUT OF POCKET expenses that, like several of you have mentioned, a nice long visit to the gyno could help. (Did you know they even have vaginal physical therapists? My friend had to go to one for muscle damage from childbirth and it really, really helped.)

    I’m not kidding…this irks me even more than the whole Christian contraceptive thing.

  20. lawbitch says:

    Someone beat me to it–Kegel exercises. Highly recommended.

  21. prairielily says:

    Another tight person over here. I get really sore really fast, bleed occasionally, and think it might be why I’m so prone to UTIs.

    But hey, let’s tell women that making EVERYTHING tighter and smaller improves their lives. We already did it with their bodies, right? And we’ll toss out the word “empowerment” so we can co-opt feminist language. Otherwise the women might catch on.

    I’m highly unimpressed.

  22. Chikin says:

    How remarkable that a bunch of male doctors get to sit around and discuss what women need/want/must have to be sexually happy – because men know what we want better than we do, of course – because they’re experts! Because they have lab coats! And degrees! And penises! Fuck-ING gross.

  23. raging red says:

    Yep, it’s all about supply and demand. Dr. Matlock wouldn’t be in business if not for those women.

    Ah, Raging Moderate: Missing the point, one comment at a time.

  24. hp says:

    After some stitches for some tearing due to le babe and post-partum healing, things actually did get tighter down there.

    Good god, was I glad when the scar tissue from the tear softened and stretched and everything returned to a more normal level of “tightness”.

  25. zuzu says:

    BTW, gaining weight can also make the vagina tighter, since fat goes to the vaginal walls as well.

    And I’ve heard wonderful things about the effects of Pilates on orgasms.

  26. Frumious B says:

    Trademark phrase, leased equipment, self-pay models, lack of supporting data for benefits … This is not medicine, this is quackery.

  27. Linnaeus says:

    This is just….macabre.

  28. Less than 20 percent of Miklos’ practice is made up of women who tell him they want vaginal surgeries because a man criticized the way they looked or felt, he said.

    Huh. So a woman who wants to undergo this procedure because of a man’s opinion–fine. But ref. Jill’s recent post about the Christian husband consternated by contraception, and he was denied a vasectomy because his wife wanted him to get one.

    Interesting how that works.

  29. Hawise says:

    Sarah- :Seriously, people…really bad problems with AIDS and cancer going on in the world, and these are the squabbles our brightest and finest are having?”

    No these doctors are not the brightest and finest, they are just the most money obsessed.

    What gets me is that Pamela Strickland can let her gyno stick a speculum up her vagina but can’t discuss her sex life with her own doctor. She needs to check out the advertising pages to find someone she can talk to about her sex life. There is something profoundly wrong with that world view and laser surgery of vaginal walls won’t cure it.
    Anyone who wants better sex ed. in schools needs to use Pamela Strickland as a poster girl for why it is needed.

  30. Anonymous says:

    Actually, from what I’ve heard in the past, surgeries on tissue with lots of nerve-endings (i.e. erogenous zones like the vagina) can result in less ability to feel pleasure. Basically, they’re cutting it up and it heals into scar tissue, which can’t feel much of anything directly. So this stuff has got to be entirely for cosmetic reasons, unless it’s corrective surgery for something that’s painful (and having a tighter vagina sounds like it would, initially at least, cause more pain during sex, not less) or damaged. However, this procedure doesn’t sound like constructive surgery, or anything that would be healthy or pleasurable for a woman at all.

    Speaking as someone whose had such surgery post- cancer repair, I can ay with some finality that this is true. I can’t imagine why someone would have this done who doesn’t need to.

  31. W. Kiernan says:

    And for those guys who, alas, lack women to play around with, Dr. Matlock also offers Laser Hand Surgery. This exciting, innovative technique excises a small bit of the muscles on the palm side of your preferred hand’s fingers, for a tighter, more satisfying grip. Of course it costs thousands of dollars, and afterwards you can’t ever straighten those fingers again, but isn’t it worth it, guys? And it’s so much easier and more convenient than simply buying one of these and strengthening your fingers non-surgically.

  32. PhoenixRising says:

    Recently I tried the free Pilates class at my gym. I think a targeted exercise program would serve the same function as this surgery, with the advantanges of reversibility and economy.

    Here’s how I know: I properly executed the abdominal exercises and pulled everything up and in as instructed. I don’t even do Kegels, and I shot my feminine protection right out of there. It’s not like I was trying.

    I’m not familiar with the human penis but I don’t myself have a body part that would want to withstand that level of pressure, which again, my unaltered vaginal muscles exerted by accident. Who needs surgery, even if you genuinely believe that tighter would improve your (husband’s) sexual experience?

    If you think this is TMI, ask me about the time I broke my wrist in bed. Here’s a hint: if you think your partner’s vagina needs surgery to feel tight, consider that she may just not be enjoying herself all that much.

  33. preying mantis says:

    “Huh. So a woman who wants to undergo this procedure because of a man’s opinion–fine. But ref. Jill’s recent post about the Christian husband consternated by contraception, and he was denied a vasectomy because his wife wanted him to get one.

    Interesting how that works.”

    It’s important to remember that these guys are almost assuredly Dr. Quackensteins. A doctor actually interested in their patient’s health and well-being would make sure their patients were well-informed about the procedure’s expected results and potential complications, and then do what they could to be certain that they were either getting it for themselves or hell-bent on getting it and not at serious risk of complications.

    Mr. I-Don’t-Want-a-Vasectomy almost assuredly got into the office, told the doctor that his wife was making him get one, and then acted like he was there at gun-point. He actually scheduled the procedure only to skip the appointment what, twice? Given the uncertainty and expense involved in a reversal of a vasectomy and his deep ambivalence about having it done, it seems like the medically responsible thing to do would be to recommend counseling, suggest reliable but non-permanent contraceptive use in the meantime, and/or refer the patient to another physician.

  34. Hawise says:

    Kegels are a great way to while away a traffic jam, just saying.

  35. MuzakBox says:

    I have a very odd friend. She’s a great friend actually. And one day we had to do alot of driving and she suggested we try different kegel exercises at every stop light. Who can do the most at a light. Can hold it the longest from one stop light to the next. Make up the most interesting rhythm to a song. I always did them kind of sporadically before that. There are tons more…Now every time I’m at a light I try one of the kegel games.

  36. Regina says:

    [Pamela Kirkland] found Miklos’ and Moore’s Web site and made an appointment to discuss with them what she had been too embarrassed to talk about with friends or her gynecologist.

    That is so sad. Not least because if she’d had the guts to talk to a friend or her ob-gyn, she might have learned (in addition to the prolapsed uterus problem) that:

    1. pelvic floor exercises work well, and they’re free, and
    2. one of the best prescriptions for strengthening vaginal muscles is actually more orgasms.

  37. Thomas says:

    PR, as a teen, I had a partner who clamped down so hard during orgasm that I worried about hand injuries. I’ve heard similar stories from others. (Billy Idol, generally a big asshole, tells a story about fisting one partner who left his hand so crunched and sore that he iced it in the hotel ice bucket before going on stage that night.) IME, shockingly hard contractions during orgasm are unusual but not incredibly rare.

  38. puellasolis says:

    Another rather tight person here. Whenever I have sex for the first time in a while, I’m sore for days. Once I get used to it again, though, Kegels are great for improving pleasure. I can’t imagine actually forcing the tissues to be tighter, with no possibility for expansion–the possibility for pain sounds enormous. Gah.

    And I, too, find it more than a little disturbing that some of these women are uncomfortable talking to gynecologists about sex, but will happily waltz in and have someone take a scalpel and/or laser to them.

  39. Marcy says:

    Here’s an idea: if you feel your vagina is too big for your current partner, find a guy with a bigger cock.

    Yeah, I like that. It reframes the whole issue. If there’s a size discrepancy between a man and a woman, why is it the woman who has the problem? I had sex a couple times with a guy who was huge, and I mean HUGE. It was almost not human. Anyway, he kept saying over and over that I was too small and too tight. Yeah, right. I told him, “You’re fucking huge. It’s not me…it’s you.”

    It was obviously not a good match. I don’t want to have to use an entire bottle of lube every time I have sex. Not good. So, that’s why I only had sex with him twice. Who needs the aggravation? I’ll take an average-sized man anyday.

  40. El Mocho says:

    Thomas: I’m surprised no one’s brought up the F-word yet except in veiled terms. If more men just had better command of their fingers and hands, then a lot of concerns about “girth” and “looseness” for both sexes would probably become secondary.

    This surgery like the whole “Your penis is to small!” hysteria men get spammed with in reverse. They just need another market to sell costly, useless procedures to.

  41. El Mocho says:

    Too small, dammit. Hmmm… Freudian typographical error.

  42. Ann says:

    Regarding “surgeries on tissue with lots of nerve-endings (i.e. erogenous zones like the vagina),” my understanding was that the vagina itself doesn’t contain many nerve endings of that nature: otherwise, childbirth would be “unbearably” painful.

    Not that I’m endorsing this procedure in any way!

  43. TomCody says:

    I”ll agree with someone above who mentioned that it was men who were the supposed “experts” on the vagaina. Like with breast implants it’s men who have come up with these surgeries (for non-medical reasons) and not women. Probably because medically professional women (NOT in plastic surgery, there are women who also do these surgeries) wouldn’t ever think to laser off or cut into a vagina that was perfectly fine otherwise.

    I’d like to think back to a time long, long, long ago when women were allowed to be hairy as all hell, had a variety of breasts sizes, different types of vaginas and no one (*man*) complained that they needed to shave, have bigger breasts or a tighter vagina, or be missing toes to fit into over expensive shoes. Then again there was a lot of running from tigers and foraging for food and no birth control. *sigh*

    It makes you wonder how far this will go until women are totally broken. Is the vagina the last vestige for plastics? Or will they find something else to “fix” on women that doesn’t need to be fixed. After this what else is there?

  44. Tessa says:

    I’m sure they’ll find something else to “fix” on us. I can hear it now: “Tired of botox for those unsightly frown lines? With our latest procedure, you’ll never get them in first place. With one quick lobotomy, you’ll never worry about anything again. Ladies, you’re just a frontal lobe away from perfection!” Arrgh, I’m so incredibly skeeved out by the idea of these bloody surgeries.

  45. syfr says:

    Tessa, you beat me to it.

  46. JaneDoe says:

    Scary stuff. Along with what everyone else has said, I also can’t help making the connection between these small tight vaginas and the pornographic image of women as little girls- no body hair, so sign of aging, and undeveloped vaginas. So creepy.

  47. Mnemosyne says:

    This, like the G-Spot shot, are doctors using women to garner profit.

    And here I thought the G-Spot was a scam for sex toy manufacturers to garner profit.

    I can’t figure out if I’m tight or my husband is big. Little Column A, little Column B, I think. But at least we finally found a lube (O! My organic lube, bought from Good Vibrations) that doesn’t cause a nasty burning sensation down there. Stupid all-over ultra-sensitive skin (I also have rosacea and have to use dye- and perfume-free detergent or I itch like a motherfucker).

  48. W. Kiernan says:

    When I first read this, I took it as a smutty joke rather than anything serious – yeah yeah I know, sheesh, us guys with minds like childrens’s – but it just occured to me, how would this vanity surgery affect a woman who later was trying to give birth? As though that weren’t difficult enough without an artificially constricted birth canal.

  49. Gordon K says:

    Regarding “surgeries on tissue with lots of nerve-endings (i.e. erogenous zones like the vagina),” my understanding was that the vagina itself doesn’t contain many nerve endings of that nature: otherwise, childbirth would be “unbearably” painful.

    I don’t think the argument in that quote is that it’s painful; I think the argument is more that you’re losing erogenous surface areas – any surgery like this is going to scar to some degree, so you’re losing pleasurable nerve endings.

  50. EoL says:

    Man, a hundred years after Freud and people are still believing that “vaginal orgasm” vs “clitoral orgasm” bullshit.

    I was reading an awful discussion about this just the other day, because the kids involved were talking about “PIV” orgasms v. “clitoral,” as though during PIV sex, no one has a “clitoral” orgasm unless they’re actively rubbing themselves or using a vibe. The root of the conversation was about orgasming from sex itself or not, with those in the “yes” category implying that all their orgasms were “vaginal” while the “no” women were wishing they could “learn” how to have “vaginal” orgasms … and it hurt my brain.

    But the gals there would certainly be the types that would fall for this crazy vaginoplastiness. All they talk about is how to increase male pleasure, and their orgasms are just a side effect of giving their man a better experience. Too bad I have a really nasty case of TWS … otherwise I wouldn’t read it.

  51. Lindsay says:

    What a waste of money, not because it’s obviously for vanity and so the partner of the woman can be all happy that his penis has a teeny hole for his teeny weeny, but eventually it will just stretch out all over again!!! And I bet this stretching over again would just be worse!!! I just don’t get it. It’s kind of the same with the hymen repairing surgery: silly and pointless.

  52. druidbros says:

    Some guys just have too much time on their hands. I had never heard of this before but somehow a bunch of middle age male doctors sitting around talking about this kind of surgery does not surprise me. I think its disturbing we cannot seem to accept the reality that we all get older, well, the ones of us who dont die anyway. And if you love your partner you make adjustments as you age. But I guess thats just too realistic.

  53. Sapphire Brown says:

    You think thats bad this is what happens when boys have to much time on their hands, just to bad they don’t use those hands to pick up some books.

    http://cynicalchronicles.blogspot.com/

  54. EoL – (sry for TMI but) I do notice a difference in orgasm during PIV sex that doesn’t involve that kind of targeted effort and otherwise, and often being able to tune in to the different types of sensations can be learned/practiced. But I doubt, based on your description, that those kids would get that.

    And I want a laser targeting system for my poon. What I’d use it for, I don’t know. But it would make for a great party trick.

  55. CatStaff says:

    Jeez louise! Is there no end to this foolishness? The next thing you know, they’ll want us to start bleaching our . . . . oh, wait . . .http://www.getanalbleaching.com/.

  56. zuzu says:

    I want sharks with frickin’ laser beams in their pussies!

  57. mythago says:

    Well, good gosh, who in their right mind doesn’t?!

    otherwise, childbirth would be “unbearably” painful

    Um. Have you given birth?

  58. Blitzgal says:

    I’m sure they’ll find something else to “fix” on us.

    This just reminded me of a “news” story I saw last week about a new surgery that will tighten saggy earlobes (for women who’ve worn large earrings for years). I’m not fucking kidding. Not even our earlobes can be saggy!!

  59. Rhiannon says:

    but… if our ear lobes don’t dangle.. then.. what do the ear rings hang on?

  60. Ann says:

    Gordon, you misunderstand. The vagina itself doesn’t have the sensitive nerve endings that we associate with “erogenous zones,” except near the entrance (or exit, if we’re talking about childbirth). The vagina is, however, very sensitive to pressure. Tightening the vagina doesn’t cause a loss of sensitive nerve endings, although–as others have noted–it can certainly cause discomfort in other ways. And yes, I have given birth–which is the reason for the pun. The process is painful, but would be much more so if our vaginas were as sensitive as other tissues that we consider erogenous.

    None of this is to suggest an endorsement of the procedure–I just think the discussion should remain accurate.

  61. being silly says:

    Ann, mine does.

  62. charles says:

    i don’t think men even care about vaginal rejuvunation, so if it is really for men’s pleasure, fuhgetaboutit…if he’s not sleeping with her, it’s NOT because she hasn’t had vaginal rejuvination. what an absurd procedure/medical risk.

  63. charles says:

    oh my god, that was repulsive. i just checked out the website in catstaff’s post above. oh my god, oh my god, i think i’m going to throw up

  64. hp says:

    otherwise, childbirth would be “unbearably” painful

    Um. Have you given birth?

    I know the experience differs for all . . . but it wasn’t le babe traveling down the birth canal that was horribly painful. In fact, pushing, while it did involve the feeling of incredible pressure, didn’t involve a whole lot of pain (for me).

    The transition contractions, though . . . but that’s all cervix.

  65. mythago says:

    None of this is to suggest an endorsement of the procedure–I just think the discussion should remain accurate.

    Sure. But my understanding of the pain of childbirth is that it involves the uterus, not so much vaginal nerves.

  66. Tiffany G.'s Man says:

    Included in the price was an agreement to lease the laser equipment and business tips on how to transform their practices from insurance-based reimbursements to a self-pay model. They also received permission to use Matlock’s trademarked phrase, “Laser Vaginal Rejuvenation,” in promotional materials.

    Some doctors criticize the secrecy. If the procedure makes such a difference in women’s sex lives, they ask, why not share the surgical techniques with everyone?

    Miklos has a concise answer: “We’re running a business.”

    Well, clearly Dr. Matlock has patients’ best interests at heart.

  67. Republic of Palau says:

    It’s just another of those things that make me livid,:there are so many poor women in the world suffering horribly from vaginal fistulae, and here are these doctors are using the skills that could end so much suffering to mind-fuck rich healthy women for money.

  68. Marcy says:

    I’d like to think back to a time long, long, long ago when women were allowed to be hairy as all hell, had a variety of breasts sizes, different types of vaginas and no one (*man*) complained that they needed to shave, have bigger breasts or a tighter vagina, or be missing toes to fit into over expensive shoes. Then again there was a lot of running from tigers and foraging for food and no birth control. *sigh*

    I don’t think primitive peoples had very much trouble with predators. Humans are horribly easy prey to catch. If we were truly prey for large cats, we’d be extinct by now. Sure, every so often you hear of a “man eater,” but that’s rare.

    Also, I have such a beef with the idea that we’d be sunk without artificial birth control. There’s a real easy way to avoid pregnancy…don’t have intercourse. Notice, I did not say, “Don’t have sex.” Just no intercourse.

    It’s such an elegant, simple solution. Only in our phallic-centered culture, do we believe that it only counts if the guy sticks his dick in a vagina. What’s wrong with manually and orally stimulating each other to orgasm?

    Usually, my relationships start out that way. I like to work up to intercourse. Actually, in a strange way, the earlier time before we had intercourse seemed in a way to be more intimate. When the intercourse starts, it’s like something is lost. It becomes an expectation of sorts. When we were doing other things, it was like each of our orgasms was equally important. When we started having intercourse, it was like my orgasm was something to be “gotten out of the way” so that we could move on to the main event.

    I just think that as soon as humans figured out where babies came from, they were perfectly able to control reproduction fairly well, if they just didn’t have the male ejaculate in the female.

  69. Ann says:

    Yes, Mythago, that’s my point! Vaginal pain isn’t overwhelming during childbirth because of the lack of those nerve endings.

  70. Weeze says:

    W. Kiernan, spot on.

  71. Teunis says:

    Dr No here needs to be invaded by Bond.

    Argh to the quackery and waste. This is the kind of crap that happens in countries afraid of sexuality… oh wait.

    …bloody scams… and so sad the victims of this quackery.

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