Comments on: Reason #492745 why abortion must be legal and accessible http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/ In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:14:04 +0000 hourly 1 By: Sandi http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-94293 Sandi Fri, 23 Mar 2007 07:53:54 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-94293 Update: It seems she won the case and will be awarded damages: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6470403.stm It's not going to get abortion legalized in Poland, but at least she won't be struggling to feed three kids on her disability insurance. Update:

It seems she won the case and will be awarded damages:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6470403.stm

It’s not going to get abortion legalized in Poland, but at least she won’t be struggling to feed three kids on her disability insurance.

]]> By: Ampersand http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-94068 Ampersand Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:31:12 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-94068 I blogged about this case <a href="http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/10/04/the-overreach-of-abortion-bans/" rel="nofollow">a couple of years ago</a>. As I said back then, abortion bans in practice can sometimes "overreach." A ban on partial-birth abortions, with a few exceptions, can in practice turn into no PBAs available under any circumstances, because the law has a profound chilling effect on all doctors who might otherwise perform the procedure. This effect has led, for instance, to a woman walking around with a dead fetus inside her for a week because she couldn't find a doctor willing to perform the (perfectly legal) procedure needed to remove the fetus. <blockquote>...and then the hospital in Warsaw refused to perform the procedure after the head of obstetrics there declared that there was no reason for a therapeutic abortion.</blockquote> He also tried to keep the letter, so that she couldn't bring it to any other doctors. >[ I blogged about this case a couple of years ago. As I said back then, abortion bans in practice can sometimes “overreach.” A ban on partial-birth abortions, with a few exceptions, can in practice turn into no PBAs available under any circumstances, because the law has a profound chilling effect on all doctors who might otherwise perform the procedure. This effect has led, for instance, to a woman walking around with a dead fetus inside her for a week because she couldn’t find a doctor willing to perform the (perfectly legal) procedure needed to remove the fetus.

…and then the hospital in Warsaw refused to perform the procedure after the head of obstetrics there declared that there was no reason for a therapeutic abortion.

He also tried to keep the letter, so that she couldn’t bring it to any other doctors. >[

]]> By: Jill http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-94067 Jill Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:19:19 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-94067 <blockquote>OTOH, I’m a little confused by how this is why “a health exception is not enough”. Wouldn’t loosing your site be a health complication?</blockquote> Well, yeah. Poland has a health exception for abortion. This woman was still not allowed to terminate her pregnancy, and went almost blind because of it. The exception didn't work.

OTOH, I’m a little confused by how this is why “a health exception is not enough”. Wouldn’t loosing your site be a health complication?

Well, yeah. Poland has a health exception for abortion. This woman was still not allowed to terminate her pregnancy, and went almost blind because of it. The exception didn’t work.

]]> By: DAS http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-94064 DAS Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:12:39 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-94064 <i>She got accidentally pregnant but the hospital where she would need to get the abortion refused to sign off on it because there was “only” a 50% chance she would die outright from the pregnancy.</i> - Mnemosyne And I bet some of the same people responsible for this decision then go around and make statements like "if women really were getting abortions for health reasons, why are they going to abortion clinics and not regular hospitals?" * OTOH, I'm a little confused by how this is why "a health exception is not enough". Wouldn't loosing your site be a health complication? Still, I agree with Tricia(freya)'s snark: they wouldn't be making this kind of deal for any other surgery. Anyway, I'm enough of an "Old Testament" sort that I believe that those responsible for this person not being able to have an abortion should have their eyes taken out. These people claim abortion is morally wrong and against God's law? Well, it says right there in the Bible "an eye for an eye". No mincing words. No issues of translation or interpretation: they blinded her, so they have to be blinded. <i>That</i>'s God's law. Oh yeah. I bet these people claim to be Christians and hence don't believe in an eye for an eye. Well, there's still "do unto others" which is pretty much the same thing, nu? They did unto her, so they ought to be willing to have done unto them, nu? I suspect the anti-abortion movement would be a lot smaller if every anti-abortion person had to personally experience the risks they are asking others to take. I still have my proposal: if you are opposed to abortion, you should pair up with a pregnant woman and have to go through what she goes through. Give up the booze, put on a weight pack, etc. And if she goes blind -- you get your eyes taken out. If she dies, you get killed. Any anti-choice person not willing to make this sort of deal is the moral equivalent of a chickenhawk. And I say unto them what Dick Cheney said unto Patrick Leahy. She got accidentally pregnant but the hospital where she would need to get the abortion refused to sign off on it because there was “only” a 50% chance she would die outright from the pregnancy. – Mnemosyne

And I bet some of the same people responsible for this decision then go around and make statements like “if women really were getting abortions for health reasons, why are they going to abortion clinics and not regular hospitals?”

*

OTOH, I’m a little confused by how this is why “a health exception is not enough”. Wouldn’t loosing your site be a health complication? Still, I agree with Tricia(freya)’s snark: they wouldn’t be making this kind of deal for any other surgery.

Anyway, I’m enough of an “Old Testament” sort that I believe that those responsible for this person not being able to have an abortion should have their eyes taken out. These people claim abortion is morally wrong and against God’s law? Well, it says right there in the Bible “an eye for an eye”. No mincing words. No issues of translation or interpretation: they blinded her, so they have to be blinded. That‘s God’s law.

Oh yeah. I bet these people claim to be Christians and hence don’t believe in an eye for an eye. Well, there’s still “do unto others” which is pretty much the same thing, nu? They did unto her, so they ought to be willing to have done unto them, nu?

I suspect the anti-abortion movement would be a lot smaller if every anti-abortion person had to personally experience the risks they are asking others to take. I still have my proposal: if you are opposed to abortion, you should pair up with a pregnant woman and have to go through what she goes through. Give up the booze, put on a weight pack, etc. And if she goes blind — you get your eyes taken out. If she dies, you get killed. Any anti-choice person not willing to make this sort of deal is the moral equivalent of a chickenhawk. And I say unto them what Dick Cheney said unto Patrick Leahy.

]]> By: Dianne http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-94006 Dianne Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:39:49 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-94006 mnem: I'm not sure. The drug in question is coumadin, which a woman with heart failure might well be on, but there could easily be more than one case. Well, almost certainly there has been more than one case, but more than one case may have gotten to the media's attention. While googling Lee trying to sort the question out I found <a href="http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/355/1/1" rel="nofollow">this article in the NEJM.</a> It describes, among other things, the harassment one doctor who performs abortions has gone through. Someone burned his house and stables. The fire started in 7 different places simulaneously but it was not ruled to be arson. He lives with daily threats and his clinic has been shot at. Don't let the rhetoric fool you: "pro-lifers" are killers. mnem: I’m not sure. The drug in question is coumadin, which a woman with heart failure might well be on, but there could easily be more than one case. Well, almost certainly there has been more than one case, but more than one case may have gotten to the media’s attention. While googling Lee trying to sort the question out I found this article in the NEJM. It describes, among other things, the harassment one doctor who performs abortions has gone through. Someone burned his house and stables. The fire started in 7 different places simulaneously but it was not ruled to be arson. He lives with daily threats and his clinic has been shot at. Don’t let the rhetoric fool you: “pro-lifers” are killers.

]]> By: Chicklet http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-93998 Chicklet Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:03:58 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-93998 Policies like this are designed to kiss papal ass. It's why I lost respect for Lech Walesa. He seemed bent on delivering Poland from Communism straight into theocracy. Policies like this are designed to kiss papal ass. It’s why I lost respect for Lech Walesa. He seemed bent on delivering Poland from Communism straight into theocracy.

]]> By: ginmar http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-93992 ginmar Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:14:21 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-93992 The thing that jumps out at me, too, is that even though I know the exchange rate is different, she's supporting three kids on $193.00 a month? Every single one of those doctors and the guy who got her pregnant should be forking over money every month. The thing that jumps out at me, too, is that even though I know the exchange rate is different, she’s supporting three kids on $193.00 a month? Every single one of those doctors and the guy who got her pregnant should be forking over money every month.

]]> By: Mnemosyne http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-93983 Mnemosyne Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:07:06 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-93983 <blockquote>mnemosyne: If we’re thinking about the same case, the woman in question was also on a medication that is strongly contraindicated in pregnancy because of very high risk of severe to fatal birth defects. So she was being asked to live with a 50% chance of dying for the sake of a fetus that was probably going to die anyway.</blockquote> It was the case of <a href="http://www.houstonwomensclinic.com/doctor.html" rel="nofollow">Michelle Lee</a> that I was thinking of. I don't recall seeing any reference to medication that she was taking so, sadly, I think you may be thinking of yet another woman who was denied an abortion despite her medical condition. Lee was on a <em>heart transplant </em>list when she got pregnant, but even that wasn't enough to signal to the doctors in Louisiana that pregnancy was a life-threatening condition for her.

mnemosyne: If we’re thinking about the same case, the woman in question was also on a medication that is strongly contraindicated in pregnancy because of very high risk of severe to fatal birth defects. So she was being asked to live with a 50% chance of dying for the sake of a fetus that was probably going to die anyway.

It was the case of Michelle Lee that I was thinking of. I don’t recall seeing any reference to medication that she was taking so, sadly, I think you may be thinking of yet another woman who was denied an abortion despite her medical condition.

Lee was on a heart transplant list when she got pregnant, but even that wasn’t enough to signal to the doctors in Louisiana that pregnancy was a life-threatening condition for her.

]]> By: Dianne http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-93979 Dianne Wed, 21 Mar 2007 14:42:25 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-93979 mnemosyne: If we're thinking about the same case, the woman in question was also on a medication that is strongly contraindicated in pregnancy because of very high risk of severe to fatal birth defects. So she was being asked to live with a 50% chance of dying for the sake of a fetus that was probably going to die anyway. mnemosyne: If we’re thinking about the same case, the woman in question was also on a medication that is strongly contraindicated in pregnancy because of very high risk of severe to fatal birth defects. So she was being asked to live with a 50% chance of dying for the sake of a fetus that was probably going to die anyway.

]]> By: Mandolin http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-93972 Mandolin Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:03:12 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/03/20/reason-492745-why-abortion-must-be-legal-and-accessible/#comment-93972 "I personally do not think this is a woman’s rights problem but it is unforgiveable physicains fault that should be addressed here." WTF is it, then? “I personally do not think this is a woman’s rights problem but it is unforgiveable physicains fault that should be addressed here.”

WTF is it, then?

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