Comments on: Bob Herbert on Imus

By: Shawna R. B. Atteberry

Shawna R. B. Atteberry — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:08:36 +0000

I love Bob Herbert.

By: DAS

DAS — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:44:05 +0000

“gangsta rap” is so popular is that white suburban kids buy it in droves and are driving the market for it. – Mnemosyne

Pace mythago on the appropriateness of my admittedly OT remarks, but this also goes to my emerging thesis analogizing neo-cons with so-called gangsta-rap — the glibertarians and fellow-travelors-of-the-religious-right-exurbanites that those kids grow up to be are what drives the market for neo-con “ideas”, nu?

By: Melissa

Melissa — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:08:55 +0000

A good essay on one woman's troubled relationship with hip-hop and its politics. I absolutely agree that we can't accept "well rappers say it!" as an easy excuse to deflect anger over the use of slurs. That said, mythago, hip-hop artists are responsible for misogynist and racist sentiments when they express them. The fact that they're reflecting the misogyny and racism omnipresent in our culture doesn't excuse them any more than it excuses any others people who express those same sentiments. As others have said, I think we can both acknowledge that Don Imus is fully responsible for whatever comes out of his mouth and find hateful song lyrics disturbing at the same time.

By: Miller

Miller — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:04:27 +0000

Shit, I misspoke: on his 2002 album a guest rapper did say, “Fuck a whore with a knife.”

By: Miller

Miller — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:01:07 +0000

Joe, I grew up on rap as an inner-city fan but now I listen to it to have some credibility in criticizing it (I don't call it "gangsta" and as a woman of color you can spare me the "white media" excuse, which you fail to cite as predominately male). The universal theme is: women and girls are dehumanized and demonized, justifying violence against them as scapegoats for male emotional distress. I bought three damn Eminem CDs back in 2000 to try and tell myself that the Establishment was right and he's not expressing the views of a callous and sadistic bigot, but his words and in the context in which he used them spoke clearly (I even bought his 2002 album to see if he's changed his ways, but the best he did was not simulate a rape or killing of a female.). Listen, forget who's saying what (remember, even black women are paraded out to spew vicious misogyny) and focus on the message that, via massive sales, society legitimizes. That is culture: the public sanctioning of attitudes and behavior, and massive rap sales scream that our culture is openly hateful of women and girls.

By: mythago

mythago — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:39:14 +0000

I wonder if Jewish neo-conservatives who encourage Jewish people to see themselves as having, or that we should have, dual loyalties, as the anti-Semites accuse us of having, also suffer from a form of Stockholm sydrome.

Oh lovely. It took only one post for somebody to use a totally unrelated subject as a jumping-off point for a debate on Israel. Kindly STFU.

It’s certainly true that hip-hop culture is not “responsible” for racism or racist comments. “But they talk about hos!” is an excuse racist whites use; it’s not as though nonracist whites see a Snoop Dog video and say “Gee, that N-word thing isn’t such a bad idea after all.”

By: Joe

Joe — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:17:29 +0000

I wonder how many people criticizing “gangsta rap” actually listen to it. Probably none, as no one who does actually calls it “gangsta rap,” a term that was invented by the white media to criticize and trivialize the subject matter.

By: Mnemosyne

Mnemosyne — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:14:34 +0000

It seems that Imus’s comments are in part being blamed on black men. Shouldn’t he be totally held at blame for his own words?

Imus has spent a lot of time trying to shift the blame from himself to “the culture” so, yes, he needs to be held responsible for his own words, if for no other reason the ridiculousness of a 70-year-old man trying to claim that gangsta rap is enormously influential on him.

We’re now having a parallel discussion pointing out that people have been trying for YEARS to talk about the rampant misogyny in a lot of rap music, and speculating as to the reasons why.

(Not that there isn’t enormous misogyny in rock music as well, but it doesn’t seem to be an absolute requirement for a hit record like it sometimes seems on the rap side.)

By: Miller

Miller — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 00:55:58 +0000

Agreed: bigoted rap glamorizes the views widely held in society (“society” meaning white males, who corporate America and pop culture revolves around). Just as we must look past Imus as an individual and more as a representation we must do the same with rappers. The only problem seems to be that society’s love affair with violent anti-female hate is cleverly disguised behind pseudo-concern of racism as blacks are used to promote the status-quo (The GOP employed the same tactic by dismissing criticism of Clarence Thomas’ nomination as inherently racist). However, rap is the global pop culture juggernaut and to deny it is an outrageous lie. Russell Simmon’s excuse as stated by Ace (devil’s advocate), “Don’t blame these ignorant bigots. Help them.” Please! Isn’t millions of dollars enough compensation? Why don’t the industry CEOs like Simmons use their power to change the message of rap to reflect a message of empowerent: no excuses, no scapegoating of women and girls? Because it wouldn’t sell. It’s obvious Simmons is just trying to save his cash cow. Honestly, would anyone excuse rap if it was violent anti-Semitic? Hell no.

By: Charlene

Charlene — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:35:56 +0000

It seems that Imus’s comments are in part being blamed on black men. Shouldn’t he be totally held at blame for his own words?