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	<title>Comments on: Requiring Women to See &#8220;The Truth&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:27:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Margaret</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102321</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 17:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102321</guid>
		<description>like the fact that the little piece of skin between your vagina and your anus might very well rip through during birth, if the doctor doesn’t cut it to allow more room for the baby to exit.

As a mother of two, I see this cut as a western form of FGM (female genital mutilation).  After painful complications from this cut (episiotomy), I still feel the scar 25 years later.  After doing research on how often this cut is actually needed, I found:  2 - 4 percent.  I found also that I had not needed it - my doctor had done it as a matter of routine.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>like the fact that the little piece of skin between your vagina and your anus might very well rip through during birth, if the doctor doesn’t cut it to allow more room for the baby to exit.</p>
<p>As a mother of two, I see this cut as a western form of FGM (female genital mutilation).  After painful complications from this cut (episiotomy), I still feel the scar 25 years later.  After doing research on how often this cut is actually needed, I found:  2 &#8211; 4 percent.  I found also that I had not needed it &#8211; my doctor had done it as a matter of routine.</p>
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		<title>By: Jivin J</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102276</link>
		<dc:creator>Jivin J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 13:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102276</guid>
		<description>Dianne, 
You still haven&#039;t come up with evidence to support your spurious claim that adoption &quot;lead(s) to lifelong depression in most women who do it.&quot;
  
I see nothing in either of the two abstracts which indicates &quot;most women&quot; who make an adoption plan have &quot;lifelong depression.&quot;  I&#039;ve never argued adoption isn&#039;t without the risk of a woman getting depressed - I&#039;ve argued I think it is probably very unlikely you have any evidence to back up your original claim and the evidence you&#039;ve provided leads me to believe I was right.  

You made a sloppy, overly-broad statement and you don&#039;t have the evidence to back it up.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dianne,<br />
You still haven&#8217;t come up with evidence to support your spurious claim that adoption &#8220;lead(s) to lifelong depression in most women who do it.&#8221;</p>
<p>I see nothing in either of the two abstracts which indicates &#8220;most women&#8221; who make an adoption plan have &#8220;lifelong depression.&#8221;  I&#8217;ve never argued adoption isn&#8217;t without the risk of a woman getting depressed &#8211; I&#8217;ve argued I think it is probably very unlikely you have any evidence to back up your original claim and the evidence you&#8217;ve provided leads me to believe I was right.  </p>
<p>You made a sloppy, overly-broad statement and you don&#8217;t have the evidence to back it up.</p>
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		<title>By: Reba</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102273</link>
		<dc:creator>Reba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 13:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102273</guid>
		<description>Well, Conservative, it seems that you know what a traditional midwest conservative is.  Most of the folks I know here in Central IL are of the mind your own business unless it&#039;s vital not to, what the hell is the government doing with our money but throw us a little farm love, and pay a little more attention to education opportunities already - school of thought.   

Sure, my husband claims it&#039;s the third notch on the bible belt, and in some ways it is, but we haven&#039;t been shunned for not attending church and, as near as I can tell, no one is going to judge me for how I vote, though they do appreciate it when people DO vote.  I know folks denigrate &quot;flyover country&quot; but most of them haven&#039;t spent time here.  I spent most of my life as a coastal girl, but there&#039;s a certain peace on the prairie - which may be why folks don&#039;t so much care what you do, even if they would rather not know you do it.  There&#039;s more than Chicago politics keeping abortion legal in IL.  Considering our government, &lt;i&gt;no one&lt;/i&gt; wants them interfering in our lives more than they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Conservative, it seems that you know what a traditional midwest conservative is.  Most of the folks I know here in Central IL are of the mind your own business unless it&#8217;s vital not to, what the hell is the government doing with our money but throw us a little farm love, and pay a little more attention to education opportunities already &#8211; school of thought.   </p>
<p>Sure, my husband claims it&#8217;s the third notch on the bible belt, and in some ways it is, but we haven&#8217;t been shunned for not attending church and, as near as I can tell, no one is going to judge me for how I vote, though they do appreciate it when people DO vote.  I know folks denigrate &#8220;flyover country&#8221; but most of them haven&#8217;t spent time here.  I spent most of my life as a coastal girl, but there&#8217;s a certain peace on the prairie &#8211; which may be why folks don&#8217;t so much care what you do, even if they would rather not know you do it.  There&#8217;s more than Chicago politics keeping abortion legal in IL.  Considering our government, <i>no one</i> wants them interfering in our lives more than they do.</p>
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		<title>By: Dianne</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102242</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 07:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102242</guid>
		<description>And if we&#039;re requiring women to get information about ALL the risks and benefits of abortion, should we mention that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&amp;DB=pubmed&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;abortion&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&amp;cmd=Retrieve&amp;dopt=AbstractPlus&amp;list_uids=9626340&amp;query_hl=2&amp;itool=pubmed_docsum&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;reduces the risk&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&amp;cmd=Retrieve&amp;dopt=AbstractPlus&amp;list_uids=8425757&amp;query_hl=2&amp;itool=pubmed_docsum&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;of uterine cancer?&lt;/a&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And if we&#8217;re requiring women to get information about ALL the risks and benefits of abortion, should we mention that <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&amp;DB=pubmed" rel="nofollow">abortion</a> <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&amp;cmd=Retrieve&amp;dopt=AbstractPlus&amp;list_uids=9626340&amp;query_hl=2&amp;itool=pubmed_docsum" rel="nofollow">reduces the risk</a> <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&amp;cmd=Retrieve&amp;dopt=AbstractPlus&amp;list_uids=8425757&amp;query_hl=2&amp;itool=pubmed_docsum" rel="nofollow">of uterine cancer?</a>?</p>
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		<title>By: lConservativel</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102231</link>
		<dc:creator>lConservativel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 05:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102231</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;zuzu Says:
Which kind of begs the question: Why do conservatives support restrictions on abortion?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I really don&#039;t know Zuzu.  Restricting abortion does not line up with my understanding of social or political conservative ideology.  

I&#039;m sure you all have access to wikipedia so I&#039;ll let you confirm this yourselves but as far as I&#039;ve ever known social conservatives don&#039;t like fast change and political conservatives think the federal government fucks up everything it touches, so keep it small and simple.  So I&#039;d like to know how anyone could say creating laws to restrict abortion is a conservative idea.  I&#039;d imagine that this is actually just a misconception created by people identifying themselves with an ideology they have never bothered to actually learn about.  Ever met a self described feminist who didn&#039;t actually understand what it means to be a feminist?

But I&#039;m just a mechanic in central Illinois, what the hell do I know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>zuzu Says:<br />
Which kind of begs the question: Why do conservatives support restrictions on abortion?
</p></blockquote>
<p>I really don&#8217;t know Zuzu.  Restricting abortion does not line up with my understanding of social or political conservative ideology.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure you all have access to wikipedia so I&#8217;ll let you confirm this yourselves but as far as I&#8217;ve ever known social conservatives don&#8217;t like fast change and political conservatives think the federal government fucks up everything it touches, so keep it small and simple.  So I&#8217;d like to know how anyone could say creating laws to restrict abortion is a conservative idea.  I&#8217;d imagine that this is actually just a misconception created by people identifying themselves with an ideology they have never bothered to actually learn about.  Ever met a self described feminist who didn&#8217;t actually understand what it means to be a feminist?</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m just a mechanic in central Illinois, what the hell do I know.</p>
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		<title>By: mythago</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102220</link>
		<dc:creator>mythago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 04:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102220</guid>
		<description>As I&#039;ve posted before, when a faux-life &quot;informed consent&quot; bill got an amendment requiring &quot;informed consent&quot; about childbirth as well as abortion, the original sponsored killed it.

The faux-lifer translation of &quot;informed consent&quot; is &quot;lie to, bully, and shame those sluts so they take their punishment and give birth like good girls&quot;.

As for adoption, good grid. If faux-lifers can make shit up about abortion causing breast cancer, why not make shit up about the negative effects of adoption on birth mothers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I&#8217;ve posted before, when a faux-life &#8220;informed consent&#8221; bill got an amendment requiring &#8220;informed consent&#8221; about childbirth as well as abortion, the original sponsored killed it.</p>
<p>The faux-lifer translation of &#8220;informed consent&#8221; is &#8220;lie to, bully, and shame those sluts so they take their punishment and give birth like good girls&#8221;.</p>
<p>As for adoption, good grid. If faux-lifers can make shit up about abortion causing breast cancer, why not make shit up about the negative effects of adoption on birth mothers?</p>
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		<title>By: zuzu</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102213</link>
		<dc:creator>zuzu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 03:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102213</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;This I can relate to very strongly and, although you might resent me for pointing this out, is a very conservative idea.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Which kind of begs the question: Why do conservatives support restrictions on abortion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>This I can relate to very strongly and, although you might resent me for pointing this out, is a very conservative idea.</p></blockquote>
<p>Which kind of begs the question: Why do conservatives support restrictions on abortion?</p>
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		<title>By: lConservativel</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102211</link>
		<dc:creator>lConservativel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 03:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102211</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Theodora Says: ...#43&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Thank you for taking the time to help me see the issue from your perspective and share some of your personal experiences, I appreciate that.  

&lt;blockquote&gt;What it comes down to for me is this: I trust other women to make the medical choices that are best for them and their families. I do not trust the government to do so for me, or for others.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This I can relate to very strongly and, although you might resent me for pointing this out, is a very conservative idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Theodora Says: &#8230;#43</p></blockquote>
<p>Thank you for taking the time to help me see the issue from your perspective and share some of your personal experiences, I appreciate that.  </p>
<blockquote><p>What it comes down to for me is this: I trust other women to make the medical choices that are best for them and their families. I do not trust the government to do so for me, or for others.</p></blockquote>
<p>This I can relate to very strongly and, although you might resent me for pointing this out, is a very conservative idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Theodora</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102167</link>
		<dc:creator>Theodora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 21:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102167</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt; lConservativel Says:&lt;/i&gt;
I understand that women’s rights is at the heart of this issue for most readers here, but I’m not clear on exactly what right is being fought for.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

For me personally at least... the right to live. The complications of pregnancy would most likely be fatal for me due to living with life-threatening medical issues. Even with the best birth control, &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;even sterilization&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;, the failure rate is still non-zero.  My husband and I know that if an accidental pregnancy were to occur, we would immediately seek an abortion as early as possible. And a future in which abortions were banned and a pregnancy would mean near-certain death for me is a terrifying prospect. I assume that you are a male and have absolutely no concept of how that feels. Do you know what it feels like to be scared to have sex with your own spouse because you weren&#039;t sure if it was worth the risk of an accidental pregnancy (yes, I have actually felt like this in times when my health was unstable)?

What it comes down to for me is this: I trust other women to make the medical choices that are best for them and their families.  I do not trust the government to do so for me, or for others. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i> lConservativel Says:</i><br />
I understand that women’s rights is at the heart of this issue for most readers here, but I’m not clear on exactly what right is being fought for.</p></blockquote>
<p>For me personally at least&#8230; the right to live. The complications of pregnancy would most likely be fatal for me due to living with life-threatening medical issues. Even with the best birth control, <i><b>even sterilization</b></i>, the failure rate is still non-zero.  My husband and I know that if an accidental pregnancy were to occur, we would immediately seek an abortion as early as possible. And a future in which abortions were banned and a pregnancy would mean near-certain death for me is a terrifying prospect. I assume that you are a male and have absolutely no concept of how that feels. Do you know what it feels like to be scared to have sex with your own spouse because you weren&#8217;t sure if it was worth the risk of an accidental pregnancy (yes, I have actually felt like this in times when my health was unstable)?</p>
<p>What it comes down to for me is this: I trust other women to make the medical choices that are best for them and their families.  I do not trust the government to do so for me, or for others.</p>
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		<title>By: twf</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102146</link>
		<dc:creator>twf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 21:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/04/30/requiring-women-to-see-the-truth/#comment-102146</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pregnant, and I will not be re-reading this post.  Not because I don&#039;t &lt;em&gt;know&lt;/em&gt; that all of those complications are possible, but because, knowing them, I have nevertheless chosen to continue the pregnancy.  I just don&#039;t feel like being disgusted and frightened right now.

And when I had an abortion ten years ago, I knew exactly what I was doing then too, and what the risks and benefits were.  I didn&#039;t need condescension or an ultrasound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pregnant, and I will not be re-reading this post.  Not because I don&#8217;t <em>know</em> that all of those complications are possible, but because, knowing them, I have nevertheless chosen to continue the pregnancy.  I just don&#8217;t feel like being disgusted and frightened right now.</p>
<p>And when I had an abortion ten years ago, I knew exactly what I was doing then too, and what the risks and benefits were.  I didn&#8217;t need condescension or an ultrasound.</p>
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