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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Pro-life&#8221; Laws: Totally Fucked.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:37:33 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Liz</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102573</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 18:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102573</guid>
		<description>Lanoire:

Denying access to abortion in cases such as this is not (yet) considered a human rights violation.

And it&#039;s not as bad as it seems: the HSE has, apparently, no authority to do what it did. Which is apparently what the court case is about.

I can&#039;t fathom it, myself.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lanoire:</p>
<p>Denying access to abortion in cases such as this is not (yet) considered a human rights violation.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s not as bad as it seems: the HSE has, apparently, no authority to do what it did. Which is apparently what the court case is about.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t fathom it, myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Lanoire</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102519</link>
		<dc:creator>Lanoire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 16:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102519</guid>
		<description>Question: what about the EU? I&#039;m incredibly ignorant about this, but isn&#039;t there some sort of human rights standard that a country has to meet before being part of it? And isn&#039;t Ireland part of it? 

And shouldn&#039;t this be a human rights issue? Seriously, FORBIDDEN THE GIRL TO TRAVEL?!? Romania and El Salvador, here we come...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Question: what about the EU? I&#8217;m incredibly ignorant about this, but isn&#8217;t there some sort of human rights standard that a country has to meet before being part of it? And isn&#8217;t Ireland part of it? </p>
<p>And shouldn&#8217;t this be a human rights issue? Seriously, FORBIDDEN THE GIRL TO TRAVEL?!? Romania and El Salvador, here we come&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Colman</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102431</link>
		<dc:creator>Colman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 08:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102431</guid>
		<description>The point about the 1983 amendment was that it decided the unborn was a &quot;person&quot; with rights. Thus it can have a lawyer and it has an equal right to life with its mother.

The American anti-choice crowd are almost certainly funding Irish organisations in the same way Americans funded terrorists to blow up citizens of their dear ally the UK. There&#039;s been evidence of &quot;Christians&quot; funding various things over here.

Imagine the freak-out if left-wing organisations in the US were being secretly funded by European money?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point about the 1983 amendment was that it decided the unborn was a &#8220;person&#8221; with rights. Thus it can have a lawyer and it has an equal right to life with its mother.</p>
<p>The American anti-choice crowd are almost certainly funding Irish organisations in the same way Americans funded terrorists to blow up citizens of their dear ally the UK. There&#8217;s been evidence of &#8220;Christians&#8221; funding various things over here.</p>
<p>Imagine the freak-out if left-wing organisations in the US were being secretly funded by European money?</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102372</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 21:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102372</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;In most other battles, the liberation theologists and other leftist priests side against conservative policies, but for some reason much of the leftist Church in Latin America still doesn’t support abortion which creates the illusion of a united Church and makes it easier for Catholic conservatives to claim a mandate to speak on the issue.&lt;/em&gt;

Perhaps because it&#039;s an issue of &#039;women&#039;s rights&#039;, which many people, whether they realise it or not, prioritise somewhere below &#039;human rights&#039;.  I think it&#039;s quite possible for someone with otherwise fairly progressive politics to have a bit of a blind spot about this.  Also perhaps there is a more aggressive anti-abortion movement within the church than there is relating to  most other controversial issues, which makes it more difficult for liberal-minded Catholics to speak publicly against it.  Particularly if they are priests or others ina position of authority, who would no doubt be targeted and possibly lose their position.  Not that I think there&#039;s any excuse, but possibly these are some reasons.    </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>In most other battles, the liberation theologists and other leftist priests side against conservative policies, but for some reason much of the leftist Church in Latin America still doesn’t support abortion which creates the illusion of a united Church and makes it easier for Catholic conservatives to claim a mandate to speak on the issue.</em></p>
<p>Perhaps because it&#8217;s an issue of &#8216;women&#8217;s rights&#8217;, which many people, whether they realise it or not, prioritise somewhere below &#8216;human rights&#8217;.  I think it&#8217;s quite possible for someone with otherwise fairly progressive politics to have a bit of a blind spot about this.  Also perhaps there is a more aggressive anti-abortion movement within the church than there is relating to  most other controversial issues, which makes it more difficult for liberal-minded Catholics to speak publicly against it.  Particularly if they are priests or others ina position of authority, who would no doubt be targeted and possibly lose their position.  Not that I think there&#8217;s any excuse, but possibly these are some reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102366</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 21:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102366</guid>
		<description>Bitter Scribe, my mother said a very similar thing to me one day. &quot;Yeah it&#039;s unfortunate that girls die in back alley abortions, but you know, no one told them to do that. They could&#039;ve just had the baby, you know&quot;. I wanted to puke. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bitter Scribe, my mother said a very similar thing to me one day. &#8220;Yeah it&#8217;s unfortunate that girls die in back alley abortions, but you know, no one told them to do that. They could&#8217;ve just had the baby, you know&#8221;. I wanted to puke.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102365</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 21:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102365</guid>
		<description>Oh, and I have found the comments about needing the know the consequences beforehand amusing. In a situation like this, where the child cannot survive, all options suck, in the general scheme of things. However, for me, ending the pregnancy early was the best thing I could have done. It was horrible, and it was hard, but it beat living every day with a child inside me who was going to die by a huge margin. I got to hold him, I got to say good bye and I got to move on with my life. Not to say get over it, because I don&#039;t think I&#039;ll ever &quot;get over it&quot;, but it allowed me to move forward, to focus on healing and to regain a semblence of a normal life. It allowed me to take time to grieve and then to decide I was ready to be pregnant again. My 10 month old son, who is the light of my life, would not be here if I hadn&#039;t made the choice to let his brother go. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and I have found the comments about needing the know the consequences beforehand amusing. In a situation like this, where the child cannot survive, all options suck, in the general scheme of things. However, for me, ending the pregnancy early was the best thing I could have done. It was horrible, and it was hard, but it beat living every day with a child inside me who was going to die by a huge margin. I got to hold him, I got to say good bye and I got to move on with my life. Not to say get over it, because I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ll ever &#8220;get over it&#8221;, but it allowed me to move forward, to focus on healing and to regain a semblence of a normal life. It allowed me to take time to grieve and then to decide I was ready to be pregnant again. My 10 month old son, who is the light of my life, would not be here if I hadn&#8217;t made the choice to let his brother go.</p>
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		<title>By: Bitter Scribe</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102363</link>
		<dc:creator>Bitter Scribe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 21:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102363</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In Brazil, poor women are routinely maimed and even killed by illegal abortion. But that’s cool with the “pro-life” Catholic church, so long as women have to be held “responsible” for their misbehavior by dying.

&lt;/blockquote&gt;No lie. I once read a polemic by some priest or bishop or whatever the fuck he was, claiming that a &quot;girl&quot; who died of an illegal abortion deserves no more sympathy than a &quot;girl&quot; who blew herself up making a bomb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In Brazil, poor women are routinely maimed and even killed by illegal abortion. But that’s cool with the “pro-life” Catholic church, so long as women have to be held “responsible” for their misbehavior by dying.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>No lie. I once read a polemic by some priest or bishop or whatever the fuck he was, claiming that a &#8220;girl&#8221; who died of an illegal abortion deserves no more sympathy than a &#8220;girl&#8221; who blew herself up making a bomb.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102362</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 21:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102362</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Dr Berry Kiely, of the Pro-Life Campaign, said the view that abortion was the “compassionate solution” in this case was mistaken. “The minor at the centre of the case is entitled to be made fully aware of the possible consequences of going through with an abortion,” she said. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Youth Defence spokesman Eoghan de Faoite said he found it “quite appalling that a child’s life would be ended in such a violent way simply because that child might not live long after he or she is born”. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t think I can actually describe how much comments like this piss me off. I heard a lot of similar comments when I went through EIFWAIL (elective induction for fetuses with anamolies incompatable with life) and it never ceases to amaze me. This child IS going to die. Period, end of story, no hope of survival, no life with a disability, is going to die. As someone who carried a child who wasn&#039;t going to survive for a few weeks, the whole time knowing he wasn&#039;t going to, I know what a horrible, awful, all consuming thing it is. You see your belly, you&#039;re reminded your child is going to die. Your fetus kicks, you&#039;re reminded your child is going to die. Some random person asks you your due date, you&#039;re reminded your child is going to die. It is without a doubt the hardest thing I have ever endured and I cannot believe that anyone thinks forcing someone else to go through that is acceptable. She is 4 and half months pregnant with a fetus that does not have a brain, and therefore cannot feel pain, even if fetuses could at that point. If she chose to carry the pregnancy to term, that is her right, but she has decided that this is what works best for her and for the child she is carrying. Sometimes there are no good answers, you just get to choose shitty or less shitty. I was told I was a murderer, that I had chosen death for my son, and the fact of the matter was that it simply wasn&#039;t true. Death was chosen for me, I simply made the choice of when based on my love for my child and my own sanity. Anyone that would force this girl to stay pregnant despite her desire to end her pregnancy is a monster.  
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Dr Berry Kiely, of the Pro-Life Campaign, said the view that abortion was the “compassionate solution” in this case was mistaken. “The minor at the centre of the case is entitled to be made fully aware of the possible consequences of going through with an abortion,” she said. </p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Youth Defence spokesman Eoghan de Faoite said he found it “quite appalling that a child’s life would be ended in such a violent way simply because that child might not live long after he or she is born”. </p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I can actually describe how much comments like this piss me off. I heard a lot of similar comments when I went through EIFWAIL (elective induction for fetuses with anamolies incompatable with life) and it never ceases to amaze me. This child IS going to die. Period, end of story, no hope of survival, no life with a disability, is going to die. As someone who carried a child who wasn&#8217;t going to survive for a few weeks, the whole time knowing he wasn&#8217;t going to, I know what a horrible, awful, all consuming thing it is. You see your belly, you&#8217;re reminded your child is going to die. Your fetus kicks, you&#8217;re reminded your child is going to die. Some random person asks you your due date, you&#8217;re reminded your child is going to die. It is without a doubt the hardest thing I have ever endured and I cannot believe that anyone thinks forcing someone else to go through that is acceptable. She is 4 and half months pregnant with a fetus that does not have a brain, and therefore cannot feel pain, even if fetuses could at that point. If she chose to carry the pregnancy to term, that is her right, but she has decided that this is what works best for her and for the child she is carrying. Sometimes there are no good answers, you just get to choose shitty or less shitty. I was told I was a murderer, that I had chosen death for my son, and the fact of the matter was that it simply wasn&#8217;t true. Death was chosen for me, I simply made the choice of when based on my love for my child and my own sanity. Anyone that would force this girl to stay pregnant despite her desire to end her pregnancy is a monster.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102353</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 20:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102353</guid>
		<description>Sally:

I rather suspect it. Although one would probably find it hard to prove, Youth Defence seems suspiciously well-funded for an organisation getting &lt;em&gt;all&lt;/em&gt; its funding domestically.

But. I am *this* much away from being a tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy-theorist, these days.
So. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sally:</p>
<p>I rather suspect it. Although one would probably find it hard to prove, Youth Defence seems suspiciously well-funded for an organisation getting <em>all</em> its funding domestically.</p>
<p>But. I am *this* much away from being a tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy-theorist, these days.<br />
So. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Magis</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102351</link>
		<dc:creator>Magis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 20:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/01/pro-life-laws-totally-fucked/#comment-102351</guid>
		<description>meaganD is probably Shoelimpy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>meaganD is probably Shoelimpy.</p>
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