Yes, thank you. I don’t understand why this is so hard for some people to grasp.

Also, I know the lines can’t be drawn clearly, but in my experience the “separate gender” people tend to be a much less common subset of “transsexual” than “transgender”.

sex is a spectrum ranging from male to female. Gender is a spectrum ranging from masculine to feminine. The two are not connected. A person can be physically male (bio or trans) but have a feminine gender presentation.

Some people find the idea that trans people are somehow not biological to be offensive. I feel, very strongly, that there is something that makes me biologically male, and that it is the same thing that makes non-trans men biologically male at their core. And, I also very strongly feel that your reproductive system is not the only or most important variable that determines your sex. My true sex (ie, this abstraction we call “gender identity”) has always been male, but the condition I was born with caused my reproductive system to develop in a female direction.

And, gender is not the same thing as gender expression or presentation. I think “gender”, the way it is usually used, is a combination of gender identity and expression.

Generally only to a narrow slice of men, though. Same deal for people attracted to women.

If you see us outside of being a gender than it’s time that you re-examine how you view trans people.

The problem with that is that some of you are adamantly telling me that you aren’t a separate gender, but are men or women, plain and simple. So, “separate gender” seems to be a subset of “transsexual,” rather than the whole group.

What is this crap about “gender presentation”?

She says she’s attracted to transsexuals with a particular gender presentation (she doesn’t use the actual phrase, but that’s what I get from her description of what attracts her). She says she’s attracted to FtoM transsexuals who are actually sort of FtoX; in other words, specifically to those ones who aim for a sort of androgyny, rather than fully trying to pass as men.

Does this mean that if you wear pants and basebal hat and a baggy t-shirt but still identify as a woman that you have a “MALE” gender representation?

Well, that woman in the pants and baseball hat and baggy t-shirt would often be me, actually, if I’m not at work. And I do identify as a woman. I wouldn’t exactly say I have a “MALE” gender expression, even when I’m in that baseball hat and baggy t-shirt and hiking boots (maybe masculine or butch, but not male). But it is a different female gender presentation than the one where you wear high heels and lipstick and such. And if I say that women in pants and baseball hats and baggy t-shirts are what I find sexy, then part of what I’m attracted to is a particular gender presentation.

sex is a spectrum ranging from male to female. Gender is a spectrum ranging from masculine to feminine. The two are not connected. A person can be physically male (bio or trans) but have a feminine gender presentation. I am a tomboy, so I am biologically/physically female, but somewhat masculine in my gender presentation.

Does this help anyone who may have been confused?

What is this crap about “gender presentation”?

Does this mean that if you wear pants and basebal hat and a baggy t-shirt but still identify as a woman that you have a “MALE” gender representation?

Yes. A person’s gender expression does not have to fit society’s expected sex/gender role. ie: A trans*woman can be so masculine and butch that she “out-butches” lumber jacks, but her gender identity can be female. A trans*guy who identifies as a guy can be a completely flaming faery, but he still identifies as a man.
A woman can have a masculine gender expression and a man can have a feminine gender expression.
And any combination of gender and gender expression can happen.

Even if Ms. Cho isn’t a trannychaser, there are still people out there who objectify us and we can have a discussion about them.

PS: I am a biological man. I believe that my transsexuality is biologically based. Therefore, my sex is transsexual male and my gender is male. My gender expression tends to change between geek, dandy, and faery.

Yes! Thank you.

So they aren’t attracted to all non-trans men. Just like M isn’t attracted to all trans men.

but as a whole, they are attracted to bilogical men.

Like I said above, I am a “biological man”. Speak. For. Yourself.

Why is it so hard to believe that some women (or men/tranny’s for that matter) are solely attracted to trans men?

And how, exactly, do you separate trans men to be solely attracted to them? Do you see some hot guy in the street and say, “wow, I’m getting a definite dickless/assigned-female-at-birth vibe from him, he’s hawt!” Seriously, think about what you’re saying.

If you see us outside of being a gender than it’s time that you re-examine how you view trans people.

And if you see (all of) us as being a completely separate gender, then it’s time for YOU to re-examine how you view trans people.

There are so many different genders…male, female, trans-male/female, midle sex, and yes….MORE!

You’re right. Except you’re deciding for other people where they belong in that list. My. Gender. Is. MALE. Nothing more, nothing less.

It’s ok that some people are simply attracted to one of those.

Of course. The problem starts when it’s assumed that by virtue of my assigned gender I automatically belong in a category I don’t actually belong to. How is that any different from “assigned female at birth” automatically equals “girl”?

What is this crap about “gender presentation”?

Does this mean that if you wear pants and basebal hat and a baggy t-shirt but still identify as a woman that you have a “MALE” gender representation?

No, it means that FTM chasers tend to be interested in FTMs with a certain presentation, and not FTMs as a whole.

Y’all need to start thinking a little more with your hearts and put your heads a little more to rest.

Right, because, god forbid we actually think about this.

And besides, Margaret never called it a “fetish” the journalist did.

If the shoe fits…

Why the doubt? When staright women are attracted to biological men, yes, they have preferences in style and personality and personal attributes, but as a whole, they are attracted to bilogical men.
Why is it so hard to believe that some women (or men/tranny’s for that matter) are solely attracted to trans men?

If you see us outside of being a gender than it’s time that you re-examine how you view trans people.

I worked with a M t F sex worker who told me that the biggest discovery she made about how straight men who were her customers who she believed had a transexual woman “fetish”, was that in fact, they were attracted to MTF’s but they felt that society wouldn’t understand it and they couldn’t deal with the stigma.

There are too many judgements being made here by binary thinkers.

There are so many different genders…male, female, trans-male/female, midle sex, and yes….MORE!

It’s ok that some people are simply attracted to one of those.

What is this crap about “gender presentation”?

Does this mean that if you wear pants and basebal hat and a baggy t-shirt but still identify as a woman that you have a “MALE” gender representation?

Y’all need to start thinking a little more with your hearts and put your heads a little more to rest.

And besides, Margaret never called it a “fetish” the journalist did.

More likely, she prefers a particular gender presentation that is common among a subset of trans men. I seriously doubt that she’s attracted to the entire “trans male gender.”