Gratuitous, but lovely.
Tonight’s episode. Woah. Spoilers and discussion below the fold. If you haven’t gotten into LOST, I would highly recommend NetFlixing the first two and a half seasons and catching up. And if you’re like me and don’t have a TV, you can watch it the day after it airs on abc.com. Or you can go up to a friend’s ridiculous apartment and watch it on his 50-inch flat-screen HDTV (thanks, Krupal).
Now, questions:
1. Is Locke dead? I say obviously not, since they didn’t show him actually die. Plus, his “connection with the island” healing schtick, and the fact that he could hear Jacob, will help him. I think Locke will be back.
2. What’s with the sacrificing-the-father-for-the-island themes? And the killing the father/dead father in general (Locke, Ben, Kate, Jack, Claire, Sawyer…). And the various other Oedipal and reverse Abraham/Isaac story lines?
3. Where were Jack and Juliet when they disappeared together?
4. The Others clearly don’t age, but Ben does — marking him as not actually one of Them, which we know because he wasn’t born on the island. How did he come to be in power? If they don’t age, can they die? Who exactly are the original Others/Hostiles? How did they get there?
5. Is Mikhail an Other or a Dharma guy? I say original Dharma — before shooting Locke, Ben said that he was “one of” the Dharma people who was smart enough to join with the Others. I take that to mean that there were other Dharma Initiative people who survived the gassing. I think Mikhail is one of them, and the guy who was pushing the button with Desmond in the original hatch was another. Unless they’re both Others who are faking. Either way, the nerve gas explains the obsession with gas masks.
6. Did the girl who Ben met as a child get nerve gassed? I say no, because they didn’t show her body, which makes me think that she’ll be back. But who is she? And she must be gone, since Ben is always touching that doll, right?
7. What’s the deal with Ben’s mom appearing? This is why I think Walt has to come back — he appeared to Shannon the same way that Ben’s mom appeared to him.
8. Can Jack and Juliet be trusted?
9. From the previews, Charlie and Claire finally kiss next week, and Desmond tells Charlie he can’t save him this time. Does that mean that Charlie will die? I say that if Desmond tells him he’s going to, then he won’t. But I kind of hope he does, because Charlie is boring and they haven’t killed anyone off in a while.
10. What’s with the sacrificial fertility themes? The pregnant women on the island dying, Ben’s mom dying, Ben using his pet rabbit to test the borders of the Dharma camp…
11. Richard got both Ben and Locke to kill their fathers. Does this mean that Richard is actually in charge?
Final fun question: Which of the LOST characters would you most want to be on a sweaty naked island with? And which of the LOST characters would you most want to be?
Unsurprisingly, I’m between Sawyer and Sayid for the naked part of it, but leaning toward Sayid because I always go for the nice guys, except when I don’t. Sayid makes beach picnics. I like that. And it’s between Kate and Alex for who I want to be, leaning toward Kate because Alex is 17 and I’d rather never be 17 ever again. Plus, let’s be honest, Kate is a fox and a badass and a pushy broad, and if there’s one thing I like, it’s pushy broads. Now if only the writers would start playing up that aspect of her character a little bit more…
Talk amongst yourselves.
Charlie was one of my favorite characters in the first season, he had a lot of great moments and funny lines. But once he kicked drugs, they didn’t seem to know what to do with him.
So I kind of hope Charlie does get killed off because I’d like to see the actor go on to other things. He’s got a black comedy lined up called I Sell The Dead that I’m looking forward to.
I agree with all you said, but what I have is a question. Can someone please explain Desmond to me and how the hell he ended up on the island again? Yes, I watched but I am so confused now! Thank you.
Sayid, hands down. He’s the only thing that has kept me watching the show, sometimes with visible droolage. Drives my boyfriend crazy until I remind him that he watches it for Sun and Claire.
I think I’d want to be Danielle Rousseau because she’s batshit crazy and that amuses me. Plus she’s not caught up in any kind of “who will she be with” plotline that always irks me so much. I’d be Kate in the first few seasons, but once they started playing up the Jack/Sawyer choosing I’ve lost interest in her.
Well, last night made it even more clear that Lost is the land of Bad Dads and Daddy issues:
Locke and Ben: Bad dads, and were both involved in the death of their dads.
Sawyer: Dad killed his mother.
Sun: Dad is mafioso type
Jin: is ashamed of his father’s low social status, pretends he’s dead.
Kate: killed her mother’s boyfriend
Hurley: Dad abandoned him for years.
Shannon: all her problem went back to her father’s death.
Jack: Dad was an alcoholic, Jack got him fired. He was actually returning with his father’s body when the plane crashed.
And other’s I am forgetting now…
The theme of daddy issues is so pervasive, it makes you wonder about the show’s head writers.
I was kind of wondering, if Ben is Alex’s dad, does that mean Rousseau gave birth on the island and didn’t die?
As far as Jack and Juliet’s secret goes, I had been pretty sure there was another twist coming: Jack (maybe with Juliet, maybe with Juliet playing along but secretly working against him) thought he had a plan to foil Ben’s coming raid, but Ben was really one step ahead of him. I was certain after last week’s episode that Ben allowed Locke to have the tape recorder on purpose, knowing it would end up being played for the people back at the beach camp and alienate Juliet, thus thwarting Jack’s counter-plan. But an early scene in this episode suggests that Ben actually did just screw up when he let Locke have the recorder. So maybe Ben’s not the mastermind I thought he was.
You can actually skip over Season 2.
There are any number of huge boards with all manner of theories on every single frame of the show. I think one of them is named after the six numbers that were more prominent in Season One. I can only imagine the treatment X-Files would have gotten in its first couple of years had it been in the golden age of the internet fanperson.
Frankly, I’d recommend waiting until 2010, and then catching up if the show isn’t cancelled and doesn’t keep getting worse.
A poltergeist? Come on.
Or Ben and Juliet worked it out that the tape would be played so they would trust her. The question of whether someone is a secret triple or quadruple agent is not a puzzle I care about anymore. Especially when we can only trust that everyone is lying (hello, House), and that no one will give any information at all. The idea that Sun would be so amazingly trustnig of Jack is a major change in her character, but since we gave up on character continuity ages ago, why complain (except it’s fun).
Assuming that Rousseau is not lying about Alex, she got pregnant by her husband, then Ben stole Alex, so he’s the adoptive father. There’s no reason to assume that Rousseau is telling the truth, though.
I’d be with Locke – man travels with a case of knives and knows how to use them, knows how to hunt, makes furniture (cradle for Claire’s baby), is very easygoing but doesn’t back away from conflict either. Forget Sawyer – man finally figured out how to fish. And he’d be doing that “oh I’m a jerk, but no really I’m not, but oh yes I am” crap.
I agree with C-Bird about both Rousseau and Kate.
I always thought Ben was Alex’s adopted father since the Others can’t have children and kidnap ones that do come onto the island.
I don’t think Locke is dead–especially since apparently Ben didn’t hear Jacob. I assume that first part of Ben shouting at the empty chair was acting, since Locke heard but didn’t see him, and Ben seemed jealous that Locke had a real Jacob ‘experience’–classic revelation jealousy if you ask me. But the tag about “maybe Jacob will help you” is too tantalizing not to suggest that something, if not Jacob, will help Locke and he won’t die on the pile of corpses.
Who to be: there are moments when Sun can be badass (and I like the fact that she had the wherewithall to start a garden), but then she’s meek, then badass again, etc. Kate, with her “I killed my mom’s boyfriend who was actually my biological father” thing and always running motiff puts me off. I like Rose too. I’m not sure who I’d be (probably just really sunburned).
Whot to be with: I have to go with Locke or Sayid. Although, yeah, Jack is pretty hot too. I just don’t know about Sawyer. He’s hot, but useless (even a burden really).
Theories: Ben is a wanker and he uses the whole smoke and mirrors thing to cultivate the mystery. I do think that its interesting how from the get-go the island has this in/out dichtomy–literally naming “the other” “the others.” I also loved how Locke and Rosseau in last weeks episode met up in the “black rock” which was the slaving ship. Very English rationalism/French liberty meeting in the literally belly of the beast of human wickedness. It was a moment. This Jacob thing is throwing me a bit. I’m not sure what to make of it.
I didn’t get to watch till this morning, so I’m still processing it all. I don’t know WHAT to think about Jacob. And I’m hating Jack more and more with his need to control every situation and his sense of entitlement that he should get to control everything and everyone. He expects everyone to tell him everything, but won’t do the same for them.
Sacrifice has been big throughout the show, not just with father figures. It was very cool and disturbing to see the origins of the van that Hurley, Charlie and.. was it Jin? Sawyer? found.
I don’t believe Locke is dead, at least not yet. They didn’t show it, so they will either save him or kill him off in the last episode probably.
I think Mikhail is a Dharma guy, it might explain why they were willing to let Locke beat up on him.
I’d want Sun and Jin because, hey, food: Jin can fish and Sun was pretty amazing with that garden. It doesn’t hurt that they’re both beautiful to look at and I love listening to Korean.
Actually, I’d like to be either Sun or Jin. Either way, I’ve got a sexy spouse and can feel productive and helpful.
I am such a baby that the whole Jacob/old house thing creeped me out to no end. Sigh. And I’m convinced that Locke won’t be killed off, as he’s been super-important all season.
My sweaty island picks would be Boone (we can choose dead ones, right??) or Jin. Oooh or Desmond, I’m really starting to like him a lot. And for women, I think Juliet is actually getting to be more interesting, though she does seem to be overly fond of Jack, which is really a pretty large character flaw, frankly…
I must admit I don’t wants this show….but hot beefcake shots are never gratuitous Jill!
Did Ben have a rabbit in an earlier episode too? With Sawyer? Or am I remembering wrong?
I don’t know who I would like to be, though I would definitely snuggle with Desmond. The accent gets me.
I really liked the Ben backstory, and seeing where Roger’s van came from, after the episode where Hurley and Charlie got it going. Even though now it is kind of creepy, when that episode seemed really fun at the time.
I think Ben faked the poltergeist bit. He didn’t want any strong lights, and you can do a lot with tripwires and timers. I hope Locke lives, and rips Ben’s pointy little head off. He lost all sympathy from me when he shot Locke. Yes, I’m bloodthirsty.
I’m too boggled to post intelligently on the gazillion Lost plots and mysteries, but I’ll answer the fun questions.
1. Sayid – not only the prettiest, but one of the few characters who actually thinks things through a little.
2. Rousseau. Maybe it’s because we’re getting to the end of the school year, but I can totally see myself as Crazy-Blows-Things-Up-Lady.
Yes, Ben had a rabbit in an earlier episode. He shook it in its cage until it appeared to die, to demonstrate what they could do to Sawyer with something they supposedly implanted into his chest.
Then later, Ben had the bunny again to show Sawyer that probably they didn’t implant anything in his chest and even Ben isn’t evil enough to kill a helpless bunny. Maybe.
Wasn’t there an Other named Annie? One Sawyer killed? Maybe I remember incorrectly.
Question 11–Richard has climbed way, way up the list of characters who creep me the hell out. I don’t know if it’s the case that none of the Others age, or if it’s just him, but last week I thought Ben was using him and this week I was pretty sure that Richard owned Ben’s soul. Or something. Interestingly, he seems to play a major role in Other recruitment.. if he snagged Ben AND Juliet, he must be pretty important.
Question 5–I dunno, somehow he doesn’t seem like the kind of guy Dharma could have easily talked into coming to the island. I do, however, have this vague idea that Mikhail has seen–um–sensed? Jacob, but that may just be because the comments he made about Jacob in an earlier episode reminded me strongly of the Russian in Heart of Darkness.
Question 8–Haha. Um, no. I mean, the real question is, by whom can Jack and Juliet (not) be trusted, but frankly, I don’t see how anyone should trust either of them. Very shady.
If I had to choose someone to be, I’d probably go with Rousseau – Kate is driving me insane with the pining over Jack (at least in part because Jack pisses me off to no end).
Who to be with? Either Sayid or Desmond, and probably Sayid because he doesn’t have that incredibly irritating habit of calling everybody “brother” (seriously, we get that you used to be a monk, but you need to cut that out now). Sayid is just ridiculously sexy, and everyone on the island needs to listen to him more often.
Locke is definitely not dead, I think, but it’s possible we won’t see him again for a while. As for the Ben’s mum thing, it was very reminiscent of the whole Walt-appearing-to-Shannon deal, and I’m very much wondering what the Others know about it (especially given that they don’t really seem to age, etc.). We’ll probably find out in another three or four seasons, if the creators have worked it out yet (I’m beginning to wonder if they have any idea what they’re doing, or if they’re just going to keep making wacky stuff up until they run out of ideas or get cancelled).
At this point I rather hope that Jack and Juliet can’t be trusted, as they’re both annoying the crap out of me.
Cocoschmoco, I too was seriously creeped out for the whole episode. Even though I do suspect Ben may have set up the Jacob thing (it would be easy to do), I was still freaked out.
Tessa, you’re right that people need to listen to Sayid more. My fiance and I are always wondering aloud why it is that Jack is the leader, when Sayid is far more capable. Yes, Jack’s medical skills are important, but it doesn’t make sense why that should make him a leader — in fact, they should protect him more, cause they’ll be kinda screwed if he dies, unless he starts training an apprentice (Kate and the sewing kit?).
They really baffled me with this episode. I love it.
Who I’d be on the island with: I’d choose Desmond, Sayid, or Claire. Claire would be totally useless, but she sure is purty.
Who I’d be: It’s incredibly rare that I identify with male characters, but in this case, I would be Locke. He’s my favorite character because he’s so unpredictable. He’s childlike, but not childish. That is, I think most of the men on the island are childish — “this is *my* gun, this is *my* island, this is *my* woman,” etc. But Locke has a sense of wonderment. He’s like Mulder — he *wants* to believe. And yet he doesn’t believe just anything — he does need some kind of proof. And he’s so eager, so gung-ho on his quest for knowledge, that he’s always blundering, destroying things, making the wrong choices. Yes, he’s inconsistent, but I actually think it’s interesting. Also, he knows how to find the good psychotropic drugs.
And in season one Jack kept seeing his father in one episode. In season 2, Hurley met his imaginary friend(?) friend from the hospital. And Eko ran into his brother right before his death. I think these things are all tied together. I also find it interesting that so far, the Others have either stuck to the lie that they do not know what the smoke monster is-or they actually don’t know. This may mean it predates Darma and the Others.
But everyone who appears is dead (or imaginary). Which would be a pretty convenient way to deal with the issue of aging for the actor who plays Walt and no longer looks 12.
The sticky thing: Walt would randomly appear before he showed up to the island. Remember when the Others asked Michael if Walt ever appeared “somewhere he shouldn’t be”? So perhaps Walt has been dead the whole time…
And yeah, Sayid should be in charge. And then he and Kate should breed a race of super-hot babies.
Ahh, I agree with this so strongly! He keeps running off like a damn jackass and getting in people’s faces when they’re like “Dude, what the hell?”, but it’s very much like in “Objects in Space” in Firefly, when Mal points out to Simon that if he gets shot, ain’t nobody gonna know how to fix him. *Is a huge geek* Sayid, on the other hand, has serious experience in dealing with the sort of freaky hostile situation they’ve got going on, but nobody seems to take that terribly seriously.
Hell, Kate’s got a hell of a lot more experience with this kind of crap than Jack does, too (and don’t get me started on why the damn doctor can apparently shoot a gun more effectively than she can). Also; much word for Jill, as their super-hot babies would clearly also be able to kick ass and take names, and thus would be an insanely massive asset on the island. *Nodnods*
Also: ooh, creepy, re: the possibility of Walt being dead all along. I don’t know if it would really work with the fact that they actually saw Michael taking him off the island, but it would certainly be interesting (Walt’s the only apparently alive person to appear in those wacky visions, right?). Given the non-aging (and despite the apparent presence of invisible salons all over the island), maybe all of the Others are dead. *Guessing wildly*
I think that either Ben or Rousseau are not Alex’s real parent…one or the other. Way back when we met Rousseau in season one, she noted that she was seven months pregnant when she arrived on the island with her scientific expedition. And I believe she mentioned a husband. I swear his name was Richard or that she mentioned a Richard who got the “sickness” and killed the rest of the crew, but I’d have to rewatch that episode. It’s the one where she take Sayid captive.
Over at the TWOP forums, some people are positing that Richard was part of the original Black Rock crew. He did look sort of like an old fashioned sailor when he met child Ben in the jungle, and he hasn’t aged at all. Freaky stuff!
Also, did you catch the glimpse of Jacob during the skirmish in the cabin? Immediately after Ben was thrown away from the chair, the camera panned back and a scraggly looking man with long hair was sitting in the chair. So there is definitely somebody there. I think it has something to do with the rumor that the island exists in an artifically created alternate dimension.
Ben’s not, we already know that. Alex is Rousseau’s biological child, with her husband.
I missed that part. Was that a recent revelation?
I should’ve looked that up first…and her dad is Robert, not Richard. So I’m wrong on all counts, heh.
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Alex
Ohmigosh, I can’t believe other people also think that the Others are part of the Black Rock crew! I was thinking this when we found out that Darma was calling them the “original inhabitants,” but then I thought I was just crazy! (Even if I am crazy, it’s nice not to be alone in my madness :-)). I guess I should read TWOP.
Oh man – now that you’ve brought that up, it makes total sense. *Headdesks* Clearly I need to work on my ability to put two and two together (especially given the non-aging).
I just rewatched parts of the show with a friend who only reads the recaps instead of watching it. She pointed out that there’s a short glimpse of someone in the chair so we watched it on slo-mo on the tivo and sure enough there’s a figure in the chair just before Locke leaves the cabin.
Oops, I see that someone else already pointed out the guy in the chair.
I do see some speculation on how much longer the show will be… A recent announcement said that there will be 3 more seasons of Lost, each with only 16 episodes (a season is usually around 23 episodes), and they will start a little later in the season so they can run through without reruns.