Hope he’s wearing asbestos underwear

Jerry Falwell, radical cleric, dead at 73.


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126 comments for “Hope he’s wearing asbestos underwear

  1. May 15, 2007 at 1:03 pm

    So he can get eternal nad cancer?

  2. rachel
    May 15, 2007 at 1:09 pm

    i’m weeping…. oh wait those are just allergies

  3. Thomas
    May 15, 2007 at 1:10 pm

    Conclusive links between the radical religious leader and terrorist groups have never been shown. However, he was known throughout his career for his fiery anti-American rhetoric and his attempts to move the government closer to the stringent dictates of his sect.

  4. May 15, 2007 at 1:12 pm

    Oh why isn’t there a hell? And a fair and just god?

  5. Jewel
    May 15, 2007 at 1:13 pm

    Damn, I’m a bad person. I was actually excited to read this. Tell me I’m not alone…

  6. May 15, 2007 at 1:13 pm

    Well, well!

  7. Miranda
    May 15, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    The celebration is at my house tonight!

  8. Vir Modestus
    May 15, 2007 at 1:17 pm

    Jewel, you are not alone. I was positively gleeful!

    I mean, speaking of Christian Terrorists! Since so many wingnuts blindly followed where Falwell led before, would it be too much to hope….

    I suppose so.

  9. Chicklet
    May 15, 2007 at 1:22 pm

    I’m weeping … with laughter. Save the top bunk for Cheney.

    I wonder if there’ll be a Princess Died-esque shrine of flowers and such at Liberty. If so, someone should go and lay a stuffed Teletubby on the pile.

  10. Karley
    May 15, 2007 at 1:24 pm

    I’m making a Photoshop tribute to this lovely example of humanity as we speak.

    May 15- let’s make it a holiday.

  11. Rose
    May 15, 2007 at 1:27 pm

    Let the joyous news be spread, the wicked old Falwell at last is dead!

  12. lurbylouie
    May 15, 2007 at 1:27 pm

    oh thank god! one down….how many more fat preachers left?

  13. Linnaeus
    May 15, 2007 at 1:28 pm

    While I was no fan of Falwell during his life, I won’t celebrate his death. He’s gone the way of all flesh. We will too.

  14. J
    May 15, 2007 at 1:28 pm

    Whatever should the queers, feminists and Tinky Winky do now?

  15. Karley
    May 15, 2007 at 1:32 pm
  16. C
    May 15, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    Flaming shots all around?

  17. bluestockingsrs
    May 15, 2007 at 1:41 pm

    Me too, Linnaeus.

    I am sad for his family’s loss today.

  18. Bitter Scribe
    May 15, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    I’m glad to see him go, but let’s not get too gleeful. There are 20 more where he came from.

  19. May 15, 2007 at 1:55 pm

    Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.

  20. May 15, 2007 at 2:01 pm

    It’s sad when someone dies, but I feel the world is better off without him.

  21. Blitzgal
    May 15, 2007 at 2:08 pm

    Yeah, the world would be better off if he’d never risen to power, so I can’t feel any relief that he’s gone. He’s already achieved all the damage to our society that he could have.

  22. anna
    May 15, 2007 at 2:17 pm

    Hate to derail the thread, but there is no “ask a feminist” advice column, and Google and Wikipedia are failing me on this one. Quick question: Besides soccer, football, ice hockey, and baseball, are there any American pro sports that men play but women don’t? Thanks.

    As for Jerry Falwell, I agree with Blitzgal.

  23. May 15, 2007 at 2:18 pm

    On the one hand I’m glad he’s not around to spew venom any more. On the other hand I would have preferred for him to live another ten years and be publicly outed or something.

  24. zuzu
    May 15, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    On the one hand I’m glad he’s not around to spew venom any more. On the other hand I would have preferred for him to live another ten years and be publicly outed or something.

    Are you kidding? We have an election next year, and one of the things the Republicans always had to do was kiss the ring of Jerry Falwell. Now we get to see who’ll replace him, and hopefully watch a fight for power among the religious right.

  25. Catherine Martell
    May 15, 2007 at 2:45 pm

    Oh, phooey. What’s with the holier-than-thou? The Falwell clan’s loss is the world’s gain. He was doing his darndest to be beastly right up to the end.

    I can’t feel sorry about the death of one who has spent his entire life trying to make other people miserable, and feel less sorry still for one who has actively supported or participated in the torture and murder of other humans. Falwell’s support of segregation and, later, apartheid tainted those mean old claws of his with blood as far as I’m concerned. I say it’s time for a keg party, a spot of celebratory interracial homosexuality and a midnight showing of the Teletubbies.

    I’m glad the hateful old monster is dead. Ha ha! Dead dead dead. I’d dance on his grave, only there will be ever such a long queue.

  26. May 15, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    Remember, everybody: Dance first, then piss.

    Catherine M—“a spot of celebratory interracial homosexuality” is now my new favorite phrase. Thanks!

    And, if anybody else is feeling guilty over sudden feelings of glee, I waited three seconds to clarify that he was officially dead (and not just “unresponsive”) and then let out a whoop of glee.

  27. Linnaeus
    May 15, 2007 at 2:58 pm

    Oh, phooey. What’s with the holier-than-thou? The Falwell clan’s loss is the world’s gain. He was doing his darndest to be beastly right up to the end.

    I certainly intended no holier-than-thou message in my response. Other people are certainly welcome to react to Falwell’s death as they wish. I was only voicing my own personal take.

    I should also say that the fact that I don’t celebrate his death doesn’t mean I’m sorry he’s dead, either. Furthermore, I think it’s perfectly acceptable to assess and condemn his actions whether he’s alive or dead. It’s just that his death qua death doesn’t bring me any joy or sorrow.

  28. evil fizz
    May 15, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    I think it would be wrong to be cheerful that someone has died. However. As Shakespeare’s Sister pointed out: we can all hope that if there is a god, she/he will treat Mr. Falwell with the kind of regard and compassion he showed to others.

  29. May 15, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    Ah, well. Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish.

  30. Linnaeus
    May 15, 2007 at 3:09 pm

    As Shakespeare’s Sister pointed out: we can all hope that if there is a god, she/he will treat Mr. Falwell with the kind of regard and compassion he showed to others.

    I can definitely get on board with the justice thing.

  31. Kristen
    May 15, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    And, if anybody else is feeling guilty over sudden feelings of glee, I waited three seconds to clarify that he was officially dead (and not just “unresponsive”) and then let out a whoop of glee.

    Ditto.

    I will not weep for those teach others to hate. Period. I wouldn’t have caused his death, but I will be happy that the world is now short one (of many) hate-mongering person.

  32. Mostly Normal
    May 15, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    Oh why isn’t there a hell? And a fair and just god?

    As a Christian I think there is a just God, and while I don’t presume to know anything about anybody else’s soul… this is one dude I imagine is headed straight to the firey pits.

  33. randomliberal
    May 15, 2007 at 4:41 pm

    The trackback above me is right. We should show some compassion for the dead…



    Man, i can’t hold a straight face that long.

    I truly am sorry for anyone close to him for their loss. It’s hard to lose someone you love.

    Probably not as hard as losing an uncle 13 years ago to a disease that Falwell and his ilk just knew was punishment for living a sinful lifestyle, then watching that death nearly tear my family apart as part of the family (my mother) takes the side of Falwell and the other part (my grandparents) takes the side of, well, my uncle (their son); but still, hard.

    Yes, i’m fucking bitter.

  34. j swift
    May 15, 2007 at 4:43 pm

    I am not in a big hurry to dance about with glee over Jabba’s passing. I wonder, that as he lay on the floor of his office experiencing the end of his days on earth, maybe, just maybe the cognitive dissonance failed him and he realized this life is all there is. The last emotion he felt was profound disappointment and the last thought was “fuck”.

  35. Mnemosyne
    May 15, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    The trackback above me is right. We should show some compassion for the dead…

    Heh. I love how the “Rachel Corrie squealed as she died!” crowd is now lecturing us on how we should be oh-so-compassionate towards the dead.

    Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.

  36. Mostly Normal
    May 15, 2007 at 4:54 pm

    […] omments, folks. “Liberals, the people of compassion” my ass. UPDATE: I knew Feministe wouldn’t disappoint. My faith in the mendac […]

    Breathe into a bag and calm down. Nobody killed the man. You can be a perfectly compassionate person and have a sense of right and wrong, good and bad. Making my list of bad would be: bigots, egomaniacs, and religious hypocrites, all of which Falwell was. So as a religious person and an ooey-gooey liberal I feel perfectly comfortable saying, “This world is better off without Jerry Falwell.”

    Happily I will not be showing up at Falwell’s funeral to mock him–that would be uncompassionate–though I’m sure he’d be happy to do that to me if, for example, I died of a certain virus.

  37. randomliberal
    May 15, 2007 at 4:55 pm

    I wonder, that as he lay on the floor of his office experiencing the end of his days on earth, maybe, just maybe the cognitive dissonance failed him and he realized this life is all there is. The last emotion he felt was profound disappointment and the last thought was “fuck”.

    I doubt that his cognitive dissonance failed him…that’s some strong shit they take throughout their lifetimes (i should know…as i indicated above, my mom is full of it). However, given how scared of death these premillennial dispensationalists are (and i’m pretty sure he considered himself one), i wouldn’t doubt that his last thought was “fuck”.

  38. Mostly Normal
    May 15, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    “Dr. Falwell was a man of distinguished accomplishment who devoted his life to serving his faith and country,” said Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), a GOP presidential contender who during the 2000 primaries referred to Falwell and Robertson as “agents of intolerance.” McCain has since distanced himself from those comments.

    From the Yahoo article linked in the original post. McCain would eat his own foot if it made the crazies like him more.

  39. May 15, 2007 at 5:03 pm

    The trackback above me is right. We should show some compassion for the dead…

    We are showing some compassion for the people he’s done his best to put through hell, celebrating their release from the current influence one of their many oppressors.

    And regarding the trackback, at least we’re sitting here quietly celebrating on our own turf, rather than showing up amongst the mourners.

    Aside from presenting my condolences to his family and close friends (who have lost something more than a mouthpiece for their bigotry) I am disinclined to show him any more compassion or respect than he would have shown me, had we been introduced.

    So . . . how much compassion do you think he would have shown to a bisexual, pro-choice, environmentalist, liberal, Pagan feminist? Does sitting about gloating online make things about even, or should I make donations to NOW and Planned Parenthood in his memory?

  40. May 15, 2007 at 5:07 pm

    I’ve never been so disappointed in a thread here in my life. I lashed out bitterly at the MRAs who celebrated the death of Andrea Dworkin, and I’m lashing out at those who are dancing in happiness today. I don’t care if it’s Falwell or Zarqawi, rejoicing in the death of any sentient creature, no matter their real or imagined crimes, is indefensible.

    Shame on all of you, my friends included, who celebrate this man’s passing.

    Call me an elitist asshole all you like. Jerry is in my prayers this afternoon.

  41. little cabbage
    May 15, 2007 at 5:08 pm

    The world is better off without him, honestly. That’s what’s worth celebrating IMHO – a world without his hatred and bigotry poisoning it.

  42. May 15, 2007 at 5:09 pm

    should I make donations to NOW and Planned Parenthood in his memory?

    Now that is a good idea!

  43. May 15, 2007 at 5:10 pm

    Vengeance is mine – said the Christian God.

    I continue to be sad for the way in which Falwell defamed Christianity – a complicated, bizarre, and deeply human religion of which I am part of in a small way.

    But I’m not happy about this, though neither am I shedding any tears. Death comes for us all. Whatever reckoning awaits Falwell and his ilk on the other side is ultimately no business of mine.

  44. May 15, 2007 at 5:10 pm

    I wonder, that as he lay on the floor of his office experiencing the end of his days on earth, maybe, just maybe the cognitive dissonance failed him and he realized this life is all there is. The last emotion he felt was profound disappointment and the last thought was “fuck”.

    I believe that’s exactly what happened, not right before death but right after it—and that is why I believe there is no hell; there’s no need for it. I think the understanding of what one has done, every mistake and every deliberate hurt one has committed and the suffering it caused in others, is all the vengeance and justice ever needed. Then, after coming to terms with himself, I imagine he’ll reincarnate himself as a spotted owl or a lesbian or something like that.

    *enjoys feelings of enlightened superiority for a moment, then casts the arrogance aside*

  45. randomliberal
    May 15, 2007 at 5:12 pm

    Kyra, i was kidding.

    Forgot to turn on the snark tags…

    And yeah, making donations to pro-choice and pro-GLBT organizations in his memory is actually a pretty brilliant idea. As for myself, i’m taking a couple of shots tonight to toast his death and then all the people he hurt.

  46. randomliberal
    May 15, 2007 at 5:14 pm

    My last comment is awaiting moderation, but i just wanted to make sure folks know i was being snarky about the compassion thing.

    Feel free to delete this comment when my last one clears moderation.

  47. randomliberal
    May 15, 2007 at 5:17 pm

    Sorry to multipost like this, but i just saw something on LGM that made me cackle with glee:

    He told Christine Amanpour on CNN last week that he’d been praying to God for 20 more years of life so he could complete his work. He seemed pretty optimistic that his prayers would be answered, because it apparently happened just like that to someone in the Bible.

    If there’s a hell, i’ll probably see Jerry there. I’ll say hi to him for everyone.

  48. May 15, 2007 at 5:23 pm

    randomliberal—I didn’t feel like quoting the trackback for some reason. Also was reading comments, composing my own, and listening to the TV and analyzing a cat-chase outside the window to see if assistance was required, all at the same time, so somehow the snark disconnected from the words in the post and I understood it as if somehow both the snark and the admonition were sincere. Sorry.

    (And we got the cat safely in.)

  49. piny
    May 15, 2007 at 5:30 pm

    I’ve never been so disappointed in a thread here in my life. I lashed out bitterly at the MRAs who celebrated the death of Andrea Dworkin, and I’m lashing out at those who are dancing in happiness today. I don’t care if it’s Falwell or Zarqawi, rejoicing in the death of any sentient creature, no matter their real or imagined crimes, is indefensible.

    Shame on all of you, my friends included, who celebrate this man’s passing.

    Call me an elitist asshole all you like. Jerry is in my prayers this afternoon.

    Yeah, yeah, crying with rage yadda yadda yadda.

    Andrea Dworkin was not a horrible person. She did not deserve to be pilloried. The assholes saying horrible things about her were, by and large, telling a bunch of venomous lies.

    Jerry Falwell, on the other hand, was a horrible person. He spent his whole life building his fortune and his reputation off of the misery of powerless people. He had a good run-–better than David Wojnarowicz, better than Robert Mapplethorpe–-and he showed even less concern for his state in the afterlife than we do. I hope he’s not burning in hell right now, but I can’t say I’d care too much if he were. I’m not going to grieve for him. I’m not going to pray for him. I’m certainly not going to tell all my friends that they don’t have the right to speak ill of this particular dead man. I don’t have that right.

    Fuck you, Hugo. You’re not an elitist asshole, although that frankly bizarre choice of adjective gives me a pretty good idea how far you’ve fallen of the mark. You’re a simpering, conceited, sanctimonious little prick today. Pray for some humility, and shut the fuck up.

  50. Mostly Normal
    May 15, 2007 at 5:33 pm

    rejoicing in the death of any sentient creature, no matter their real or imagined crimes, is ndefensible.

    We need a paper bag for you too, apparently. Chill out. If feeling any positive emotion at someone’s death is indefensible, then a lot of crimes have to be defensible. To some extent I feel relieved when bad people (and I absolutely believe that there are bad people) who commit crimes are gone from my world. I don’t endorse taking their lives, but I feel relief when their time comes. I don’t feel guilty about that. I didn’t do anything to the man or his family.

    Call me an elitist asshole all you like. Jerry is in my prayers this afternoon.

    First of all, “elitist” has nothing to do with your argument. Rather you’re imposing your value system on everyone else and judging them (“shame on you”), which would be judgmental, not elitist.

    Second, your pal Jerry probably needs your prayers at this point, so go for it.

  51. randomliberal
    May 15, 2007 at 5:48 pm

    Kyra, it’s all good.

    As for Hugo…to steal an overused cliché/snowclone, if celebrating the death of a man whose religious teachings are either responsible for or indicative of (or both) the current state of religious affairs is wrong, i don’t want to be right. Falwell deserves none of our sympathy. People negatively affected by his death possibly deserve our token sympathy. People negatively affected by his life are the ones who deserve our sympathy today and everyday.

  52. May 15, 2007 at 6:02 pm

    randomliberal—

    If there’s a hell, i’ll probably see Jerry there. I’ll say hi to him for everyone.

    What’ll you be doing there? *pictures randomliberal showing up in a delivery van with pizzas and thumbscrews*

  53. May 15, 2007 at 6:08 pm

    I’ve posted some links to places to donate to back at my blog.

    May Fred Phelps visit his funeral.

  54. May 15, 2007 at 6:08 pm

    Hugo, I am celebrating because tomorrow Jerry Falwell will not say anything nasty about gays, Pagans, pro-choicers, Jews, or anybody else. He will not preach hatred and he will not raise money and spend it lobbying for bigotry to be codified into law.

    I rejoice at the effects, not the means. If he’d seen the light and shut up, or been outed as something or other, or otherwise stopped, there would be similar grounds for rejoicing. The fact that it is his death that causes this future lack of spewage from him . . . well, it happens to everyone. I don’t see how it overrides the fact that decent people everywhere have one fewer enemy.

  55. Beebles
    May 15, 2007 at 6:10 pm

    I am sad for his family, because I’m sure he was very dear to them. But I can’t be sad for his death. I’m more sad about his life, and the fact that he was able to accomplish so much in the name of hate and bigotry before time came calling. He is the rare case of a single person who truly made the world worse. He deserves nothing better in death than what he dished out while living. Good riddance, and I wouldn’t piss on his grave if it was on fire.

  56. May 15, 2007 at 6:11 pm

    As someone who doesn’t believe in gods or an afterlife of any kind (though who knows?), my thoughts on this probably don’t matter much, but even if I were somehow religious, I couldn’t believe in a conception of hell where you get burnt or poked by devils’ pitchforks because you lied in the fourth grade or masturbated or said “goddamnit” when you stubbed your toe or something. But I do have a lot of respect for the belief that hell is a state in which one is incapable of love, and therefore rejects God completely. And from everything I know of Jerry Fallwell, I’d say he’s a pretty good illustration of that latter phenomenon.

  57. lizvelrene
    May 15, 2007 at 6:12 pm

    Fallwell rejoiced in the death of AIDS victims and waited barely hours before using the deaths of thousands in the WTC collapse for his political gain. Isn’t that indefensible?

    I would not wish hell on him or anyone else, but he was an awful person and I’m glad he’s dead.

  58. Catherine Martell
    May 15, 2007 at 6:14 pm

    Hugo Says:

    I don’t care if it’s Falwell or Zarqawi, rejoicing in the death of any sentient creature, no matter their real or imagined crimes, is indefensible.

    Garbage, old fruit. There are lots of people whose deaths I gladly celebrate. It’s always a little bit like Top Trumps to pull the Hitler card at this point, but what the hell: Hitler’s dead! Isn’t that super? I only wish it had happened sooner.

    I’m not saying Falwell = Hitler; clearly not. But equally I don’t see for a moment why anyone should be obliged to come over all sanctimonious piety when a repulsive hatemonger, deep into his dotage, finally buys the farm.

    I wouldn’t wish burning in hell on anyone, but I don’t believe in all that jazz anyway, so I might as well wish Teletubbyland on him – which, come to think of it, I shall. Eh-oh, Jerry! Time for Tubby Custard. Furthermore, I wouldn’t wish death on anyone, but we do all get it in the end. Had he been murdered, died in an accident, or perished before his time of some unpleasant disease, I would politely refrain from crowing. But, as it is, natural causes & 70-plus, all that’s happened is that the world suddenly has one fewer oxygen-sucking, hate-breathing asshole.

    Any “compassionate liberal” worth his/her sandals would have to have a heart of stone not to fancy a margarita and a foxtrot right now.

  59. Mostly Normal
    May 15, 2007 at 6:14 pm

    Jerry Falwell, on the other hand, was a horrible person. He spent his whole life building his fortune and his reputation off of the misery of powerless people.

    True. And I think you could also make a pretty convincing argument that he caused death. He helped fuel the catastrophic explosion of AIDS by leading his extremely politically influencial homophobic movement in the 80’s when the US could have been a leader in stopping the epidemic before it started.

    Hugo, someone dies of AIDS around every 10 seconds, and that has a lot to do with Jerry. If you’re going to get emotional over something, get emotional over that.

  60. evil fizz
    May 15, 2007 at 6:40 pm

    Shame on all of you, my friends included, who celebrate this man’s passing.

    I don’t feel shame. I feel relief. His poisonous bigotry is gone. Frankly, it would be exactly the same if he’d decided to retire to a deserted island with only a Bible for comfort. It’s not joy that he’s dead. It’s joy that his hateful invective is no more. Would that his organization would likewise vanish.

    Call me an elitist asshole all you like. Jerry is in my prayers this afternoon.

    It’s not elitist. It’s just the stench of eu de sanctimony.

  61. May 15, 2007 at 6:41 pm

    Catherine Martell— couldn’t agree more!

  62. evil fizz
    May 15, 2007 at 6:42 pm

    P.S. For someone who thinks that celebrating Falwell’s death is indefensible, you’ve surely got a blind spot when it comes to the hatred he’s spewed at causes that you profess to hold dear, feminism and animal rights included.

  63. Joe
    May 15, 2007 at 6:46 pm

    We should absolutely celebrate his death. Because fuck him, he’s an asshole. Some people quite frankly DO deserve to die, and their deaths should be celebrated.

    People who talk about howsorry they feel about the “huge loss to his family” deserve a big fuck you too – millions of people die every day and I don’t think you sincerely feel sorry for all of their families, but some asshole media figure dies and suddenly you’re going to get all solemn on us?

  64. Joe
    May 15, 2007 at 6:47 pm

    Well, millions dying per day is a bit of an exaggeration, but it’s a lot of fucking people.

  65. Mnemosyne
    May 15, 2007 at 6:54 pm

    Hugo, I will give you this much for Falwell: the man had a horrendous childhood with a horrible, abusive father. Google up the “funny” story that Jerry used to tell about how his father killed a cat, cooked it, and fed it to its owner. Did I mention that the cat was the only thing that the owner had that loved him?

    I suppose you can say that Falwell was a product of his hateful upbringing by a hateful man. Not excuse it, but explain it.

  66. May 15, 2007 at 6:55 pm

    Quoth the MSNBC article, “the annual revenues of all of his ministries total more than $200 million”. I don’t have it in me to trust a religious figure that rich, it smacks of hypocrisy. But then I’m not a big fan of centralized religion, and megachurches creep me right out. What, like God only listens to you once there’s critical biomass?

    Death happens to everybody. It’s hard for those close to the deceased, so I feel for his loved ones. I also think the world’s better off without him spewing poisonous hatred all over the media. I may be lifting a glass tonight in celebration — and I think I’ll go make a couple donations in his memory now.

  67. bluestockingsrs
    May 15, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    For my part, I understand the glee and rejoicing at someone who has caused so much harm. And my intention here is not to be sanctimonious at all, but instead to say this is why I can’t hate the people who hate me. Though I know not everyone who has posted hated or hates Falwell, I am not trying to point fingers, but instead talk about all of this from just my perspective.

    I often use the Ghandi quote, “You must be the change you wish to see in the world” as a reminder when I am venturing off into hate-land for people who disagree with me, people who would spend their last breath saying vile things about me and my beliefs.

    For me, part of being a progressive is not using the master’s tools to tear down the master’ house, as Audre Lorde said so wisely. But instead to find new tools, to build a new house that is large enough for everyone, even the people I don’t agree with necessarily.

    Everyone gets to have their feelings around Falwell’s death, it isn’t my place to judge that reaction by any stretch.

    Instead, I am just offering an explanation about why my reaction is different.

    But again, I don’t expect it to be true for everyone, just because it is true for me.

  68. bluestockingsrs
    May 15, 2007 at 7:09 pm

    Wow, Mnemosyne. I hadn’t heard that story before. It makes my heart hurt to think that people are ceaselessly capable of such cruelty.

    Just, wow.

  69. RachelPhilPa
    May 15, 2007 at 7:12 pm

    I’ve never been so disappointed in a thread here in my life. I lashed out bitterly at the MRAs who celebrated the death of Andrea Dworkin, and I’m lashing out at those who are dancing in happiness today.

    Sanctimonious much, Hugo?

    There’s a BIG difference between Andrea Dworkin and Jerry Falwell and what they stood for.

    Andrea Dworkin fought for women’s rights, ending the rape culture, and taking down the patriarchy. We may disagree with some of her tactics and positions (for example, pro- vs. anti-porn), but her heart was in the right place, and the attacks by the MRA types were pure misogyny.

    Jerry Falwell, on the other hand, spent his entire adult life attacking and destroying people of color, women, and LGBT people. While I’m not going to be dancing on his grave, nor do I rejoice over his death, I am relieved that one powerful force of hate is no longer with us. I think that is ok, and I think that it’s ok to point out all of the harm that he has done to so many people.

    Please note also, that none of us is going to MRA sites and spewing garbage all over the place on their blogs.

    I’m a little suprised, and disappointed, to hear a self-identified pro-feminist man equate Andrea Dworkin and Jerry Falwell, and equate our private expressions of relief equated with the rank celebration of misogyny upon Dworkin’s death.

    Go ahead. Lash out. Have a ball.

  70. randomliberal
    May 15, 2007 at 7:35 pm

    Kyra,

    What’ll you be doing there? *pictures randomliberal showing up in a delivery van with pizzas and thumbscrews*

    Well, considering that i’ve just graduated college with zero job prospects, that actually sounds like a pretty appealing job.

    “These veggie burgers are for the 1st level meat eaters*, and this here rack is for the guys from the Inquisition.”

    *full disclosure — i’m a meat eater.

  71. zuzu
    May 15, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    Hugo, I think “elitist” isn’t the word you’re looking for.

    “Privileged” fits the bill better.

    See, you’re a white, Protestant Christian man. Falwell and his ilk didn’t spend a whole lot of time attacking you or using his vast power and influence to restrict YOUR freedoms or block vital health programs, procedures and medical breakthroughs that will affect you.

    And here you come, wagging your finger at those of us who have been on the shit end of that stick, castigating us for our lack of generosity. Sorry, but when you’re told over and over by someone with the ear of the White House and the Congress that you don’t deserve your freedom, you don’t deserve full rights of citizenship, that you don’t deserve full medical information and rights, you don’t need someone who professes to be a feminist telling you that compassion for such a person is more important than being honest about his record.

    You know who I have compassion for? The 14-year-old friend of Shark-Fu who was raped and refused Plan B at the emergency room because of policies pushed by Falwell and his minions in government. How many countless lives have been harmed by this evil man?

  72. Mnemosyne
    May 15, 2007 at 8:01 pm

    Wow, Mnemosyne. I hadn’t heard that story before. It makes my heart hurt to think that people are ceaselessly capable of such cruelty.

    It was done as a joke. Falwell told the story as an example of his father’s sense of humor.

    No wonder the guy was such an asshole, with a father like that.

  73. bluestockingsrs
    May 15, 2007 at 8:14 pm

    Oh. Missed it.

    Oops.

  74. kate
    May 15, 2007 at 9:11 pm

    I also had never heard the story of Falwell’s childhood. I can only pretend to begin to imagine the horrors he didn’t share with people and pity the way in which he chose to work those demons — he embraced them.

    Which is beautiful testament in and of itself, why childhood abuse is so horrific. Because not only is the affront to the child’s development horrific at the time the abuse occurs, but also, contrary to popular belief, the abuse not only harms the original victim, but often be borne by all of society in the future.

    I have always held the belief that persons like Falwell must have a deep seated pathology driving them. This glimpse into his past only serves to give some flicker of truth to that sentiment.

  75. Linnaeus
    May 15, 2007 at 9:28 pm

    I’m glad to see both bluestockingsrs’ and RachelPhilPa’s responses, because I think they express more or less how I feel about this event. As I mentioned earlier, I feel no particular joy at the man’s death, but given what he did with his life, I’m shedding no tears over it, either. He offered a profoundly destructive vision of American society, one that I opposed even when I was more conservative than I am now, and so I have no problem with assessing and condemning the wrongs he perpetrated. The fact that he is dead should not shield him from that.

    Yet, I don’t hate the man. Granted, that’s easy for me to say, since I wasn’t one of the targets of his attacks. I would also not presume to tell anyone how she or he is “supposed” to react. That’s not my place. So you won’t find me wagging any fingers. But my perspective shouldn’t be taken to mean I’m insensitive to the damage he did.

  76. May 15, 2007 at 9:34 pm

    This is an evil hateful man that preached hate, funded hate, and tried to get hate enshrined in law, all the while living off the fat of the insecurities and fears of others, and gloating while others died horribly.

    I am an atheist so I harbour no illusions of any mythical retribution waiting for him after death … so honestly, maybe this makes me a bad person, and if so, fuck it I don’t give a shit … but the world is now a better place without him it.

    Good riddance.

    I would not ever wish Falwell dead, but the fact that he IS dead, so don’t expect me to shed a tear over it, don’t expect me to be respectful, and don’t expect me not to be happy about it when the world is ultimately a better place without him in it.

    To give him respect just because he died would merely end up denigrating all those that actually are worthy of respect.

    Respect is earned, not given.

  77. May 15, 2007 at 9:55 pm

    Piny writes: Fuck you, Hugo. You’re not an elitist asshole, although that frankly bizarre choice of adjective gives me a pretty good idea how far you’ve fallen of the mark. You’re a simpering, conceited, sanctimonious little prick today. Pray for some humility, and shut the fuck up.

    I will pray for that humility, Piny, and I’m praying right now not to respond to you in kind. I like what you write too much and respect what you’ve gone through too much.

    I recognize the tremendous damage this man did. But I am stunned that so many can’t separate the damage he did from his inherent worth and dignity as a human being, a worth and dignity that we all carry, gay and straight and transgendered, a worth and dignity that we do not lose even when we indulge in the most appalling politics.

    As for the comparison to Dworkin: I don’t think Dworkin and Falwell are equal any more than Falwell and Zarqawi are equal. But they are human beings, and the feminism I was raised with, write about, and teach is based on a fundamental belief in the dignity of all human beings. You can marginalize me by saying that I’m all of these things that Piny and others say I am, you can ban me from commenting, but I will not accept that rejoicing at the death of another human being is compatible with the call to justice and kindness that I see as so integral to feminism.

  78. May 15, 2007 at 10:02 pm

    Well.

    I truly believe that no one deserves death, but he was an old asshole, so.

    He’ll be missed. But not by me.

    To my mind the sad thing is that he’s dead, but not gone. His legacy will haunt us for a long damn time, I’ll wager.

  79. zuzu
    May 15, 2007 at 10:22 pm

    I recognize the tremendous damage this man did. But I am stunned that so many can’t separate the damage he did from his inherent worth and dignity as a human being, a worth and dignity that we all carry, gay and straight and transgendered, a worth and dignity that we do not lose even when we indulge in the most appalling politics.

    Hugo, we’re reacting to the end of the damage he can do. Plus, he hasn’t shown that he’s worthy of respect.

    Really, what are you trying to accomplish? Shaming people who have been harmed by this man into acknowledging his “inherent worth and dignity as a human being’?

    As far as I know, no powerful forces in this country have tried to take that away from him. But Falwell and those beholden to him — powerful people all — have actively worked to strip worth and dignity from people like piny, like Rachel, like me.

    Frankly, I’m appalled that even if you find this thread distasteful, that you’re shaming and lecturing rather than attempting to understand why people feel the way they do.

    Or is only Jerry Falwell worthy of your empathy?

  80. Joe
    May 15, 2007 at 10:32 pm

    But I am stunned that so many can’t separate the damage he did from his inherent worth and dignity as a human being, a worth and dignity that we all carry, gay and straight and transgendered, a worth and dignity that we do not lose even when we indulge in the most appalling politics.

    Whatever inherent worth and dignity human beings have (I’m not sure that they have any other than what they make of their lives), he’s squandered it away by being one of the most awful, bigoted people to ever grace this planet. Yes, you can lose your dignity, which is something you seem to be working toward by being an apologist for such a hateful person.

  81. May 15, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    Oh. Missed it.

    Just to be clear: I don’t mean that Falwell and/or his father joked about maybe theoretically killing the guy’s cat and feeding it to him. Falwell’s father really did it, and then bragged about what a great practical joke it was to have played on the guy.

    Makes a lot more sense why Falwell would believe in such a horrible, punitive God, doesn’t?

  82. kidlacan
    May 15, 2007 at 10:44 pm

    it’s true that all creatures have dignity. humans are not, however, inherently worthy of respect. in my mind, they are two distinct things. falwell likely had many demons in him — metaphorical ones, that is. he may have had a horrific upbringing — i don’t know. i honoured the human dignity of falwell while he was alive. i never called for his death. i never held that he should die or suffer for his vile words and deeds. but i’ll be goddamned if i’ll respect that fucker. i didn’t respect him while he lived, and i sure won’t respect him now that he’s dead. he spent his life doing all he could to show disrespect to others. he was a human being, with all the insight, responsibility, and freedom to govern himself in society that being human entails. he chose, in freedom, to make himself filthy rich by spitting venom at the rest of his fellow humans. speaking ill of him now that he’s dead pales in comparison.

    falwell didn’t give a shit about justice or kindness. he actively worked against both. he actively worked against humanity, and a chorus sang his praises. for YEARS. i’m glad he’s gone, and i think that’s a perfectly human response, frankly. i’d not stoop so low as to treat him in the way he proposed to treat most everyone else on the planet. i’m not mocking the grief of his relatives. but refusing to offer fluffy sugary sympathies on the so-sad occasion of the bastard’s passing is hardly disrespecting his Inner Humanity — what little of it he had left, anyway, having worked to negate human dignity for fifty fucking years. i have yet to see a comment on this thread even half as disrespectful of human dignity as those falwell farted out on a daily basis.

  83. Alex
    May 15, 2007 at 10:45 pm

    This just in: Jerry Falwell’s funeral will be picketed by the only piece of shit on the planet horrible enough to do such a thing: Fred Phelps (trigger warning). Phelps apparently believes that Falwell was not nearly homophobic enough.

  84. May 15, 2007 at 10:53 pm

    Zuzu, I promise that when the post appears about Falwell at my blog, probably on Thursday, there will be plenty of empathy for those whom he harmed. I won’t practice the “of the dead say nothing but good” tradition, I promise. But I can separate righteous anger from a desire to see someone burn in hell.

    But by commenting here this way, I’m only allowing Falwell to create more division between me and people I consider my colleagues in this great blogging project. I don’t think some of the remarks directed my way were particularly fair or kind, but I suppose that my reflexive belief that kindness always matters is still more evidence of privilege.

    I’m not being sarcastic, just sad.

  85. May 15, 2007 at 11:03 pm

    Y’all, I see Hugo’s point. I tend to think if we gloat over the deaths of people we disagree with we’re no better than those we’re fighting against.

  86. May 15, 2007 at 11:13 pm

    This just in: Jerry Falwell’s funeral will be picketed by the only piece of shit on the planet horrible enough to do such a thing: Fred Phelps (trigger warning).

    OMG. I was just kidding when I said that.

    Jesus Fucking Christ. What a whackjob Fred Phelps is. I think even Hugo will be relieved when he kicks it.

  87. May 15, 2007 at 11:17 pm

    Oops. Thought my first comment had been eaten.

  88. RachelPhilPa
    May 15, 2007 at 11:46 pm

    I recognize the tremendous damage this man did. But I am stunned that so many can’t separate the damage he did from his inherent worth and dignity as a human being, a worth and dignity that we all carry, gay and straight and transgendered, a worth and dignity that we do not lose even when we indulge in the most appalling politics.

    You mean, like Hitler? You’re going to grant him “worth and dignity?”

    Ok, maybe Falwell was deserving of some “dignity” during his life. I would never advocate treating him with the amount of “dignity” that he accorded to people of color, gay, trans, women, the 600,000 Iraqis that we Americans have raped, murdered, tortured, etc. But worth? Fuck that shit. He told me, and people like me, how worthless I am every day of my existence, and encouraged others to enforce that worthlessness on my body, day after day. He’s worth as much as the worth he accorded me – nothing.

    I’m Jewish. I don’t dance when the Sea of Reeds swallows the Egyptians. But I do tell that story (as do most all Jews), and I do acknowledge the liberation that granted to an oppressed people (as do most all Jews).

    As for the comparison to Dworkin: I don’t think Dworkin and Falwell are equal any more than Falwell and Zarqawi are equal. But they are human beings, and the feminism I was raised with, write about, and teach is based on a fundamental belief in the dignity of all human beings. You can marginalize me by saying that I’m all of these things that Piny and others say I am, you can ban me from commenting, but I will not accept that rejoicing at the death of another human being is compatible with the call to justice and kindness that I see as so integral to feminism.

    Fucking great. A man lecturing us on what feminism is. Your goddamned privilege is hanging out for everyone to see. This isn’t my blog, but if it were, you’re damned right, I would ban you.

  89. May 16, 2007 at 12:25 am

    SakuraPassion Says: It’s sad when someone dies, but I feel the world is better off without him.

    That’s the saddest thing of all, Sakura. The harshest sentence you can pass on a person is to say that the world is brighter, rather than dimmer, with their death. But Falwell, alas, deserves this ultimate rebuke, as do many others (such as his disrespectful colleague Fred Phelps).

  90. Blunderbuss
    May 16, 2007 at 12:43 am

    No matter how much I might hate someone, I never try to assume that he’s going to roast in hell. After all, I’m not 100% certain on the process itself.

    However, I DO believe that before he goes anywhere, he and God are going to have A Very Interesting Conversation.

    And man would I love to be a fly on the wall for that.

  91. May 16, 2007 at 1:02 am

    Y’all, I see Hugo’s point. I tend to think if we gloat over the deaths of people we disagree with we’re no better than those we’re fighting against.

    So who should we donate to in Falwell’s name: Planned Parenthood, the ACLU, or Lambda Legal? I’m willing to put a couple of bucks where my mouth is.

  92. kate
    May 16, 2007 at 1:23 am

    It is storming like crazy here, lightning, thunder and all. I can’t help thinking of the gates of hell opening to receive that man, even though I don’t believe it, there is really something eerie in it.

    My illusion to his childhood really was in no way an attempt to apologize for his behavior. He was a horrible, sick man who like many said here, became filthy rich on the suffering on others.

    Unfortunately, he and his band of believers have worked hard to groom the next generation to take the helm. I have no comfort in his death as I am sure there are many waiting eagerly to take his place.

    Robertson, Dobson and Falwell all harken from a generation that took advantage of the wide blindspot of the left in the early eighties. They planted themselves in that dark cellar of uncertainty and flourished.

    I only hope that after 20 years of suffering under their oppression, the left has finally galvanized the will to fight back mighty hard. May the next generation of haters not have such an easy time gaining traction.

  93. May 16, 2007 at 1:45 am

    Perhaps in death Jerry Falwell’s heart can be freed of the hate that he carried and inflicted on others. How I would have loved to see it in his lifetime. For those who believe/hope/theorize that there is something after death, hope for healing instead of justice.
    The human being in me wants the take down, but I mourn that I never saw him change his heart and stop hurting other human beings.

  94. cartooncoyote
    May 16, 2007 at 2:10 am

    Would it be wrong to send a bouquet of pansies to his funeral?

  95. Nadai
    May 16, 2007 at 3:58 am

    I recognize the tremendous damage this man did. But I am stunned that so many can’t separate the damage he did from his inherent worth and dignity as a human being, a worth and dignity that we all carry, gay and straight and transgendered, a worth and dignity that we do not lose even when we indulge in the most appalling politics.

    Well, piss on that. I have a rule: I give back what I get, with no hesitation and no regret. You treat me well and I’ll treat you well. You treat me like shit and you get shit in return. I’m sick to goddamn death of this whining about how we should be compassionate and forgiving, no matter what someone else does to us. Women have been getting that same bit of advice for millennia and it’s nothing but a goddamn scam. I reserve my compassion and forgiveness for the people who deserve it, and Jerry Falwell is most assuredly not in their number. I hope he spends the next thousand years as a leech living inside a hippopotamus’ ass. That’s about all the dignity and worth he’s ever had.

  96. Mostly Normal
    May 16, 2007 at 4:02 am

    But I am stunned that so many can’t separate the damage he did from his inherent worth and dignity as a human being,

    Hugo, it appears you’re responding to the moderators and no one else who has engaged you in conversation (despite the fact that your original condemnation was aimed at all of us), but I’ll press on in trying to talk to you.

    Who here has asserted that Falwell had no worth as a human being? Give me a quote from someone. I don’t see it. I see people who have been personally hurt by Falwell’s agenda reacting to the news of him being no longer able to pursue that agenda. The overall sentiment expressed in this thread is that people are glad he is gone; no one questioned his basic right to live. You are projecting your own concerns onto everyone else’s words.

  97. Dianne
    May 16, 2007 at 7:10 am

    Fundamentally Oral Bill finally got enough donations to call one of the gang home?

  98. Perkyshai
    May 16, 2007 at 7:50 am

    I likes the ides of May.

    As far as I am concerned…the basis of humanist philosophy (and by dint of that, feminism) has to do with the right to judge people by their actions versus their skin colour, gender, age or social group. You garner what you earn on an open and level playing field. If the field is not level, then adjust it.

    Jerry Falwell’s actions, were divisive, hateful, and cruel in every sphere he touched. I am NOT going to apologise for my honest gratitude that he can do no more damage. He earned that repercussion enthusiastically every day of his adult life.

    Hugo, if you’re talking about the innate dignity of being a life form with the potential to make great changes and improvements in the world, fine. I acknowledge that. HOWEVER, I also acknowledge that that guy used his considerable influence to make life harder and more dangerous for a great number of his fellow beings, and I think their dignity and innate value requires acknowledgement of the truth…that they are a little safer being who they are now that Falwell is gone.

    Philosophy is necessary, learning about what we are and how that is a part of how we think and what we do in many ways defines us as a species. None of that is a substitute for candid truth, which is as necessary a part of human dignity as anything else is.

    It would be hypocritical to soften my words now that Falwell is dead, vs when he lived. I am glad that his corrosive and dishonest influence is over, it’s sad that he had to die for that to happen, but better people die everyday.

    I’d rather remember Falwell honestly than give lie to my friends’ and neighbors lives and experiences by silence on the timely and gentle death of one of the people who made their lives and mine, worse.

  99. zuzu
    May 16, 2007 at 8:25 am

    But I can separate righteous anger from a desire to see someone burn in hell.

    I see the problem. You believe in hell. You think the asbestos underwear crack was a serious wish to see him burn in a literal hell.

    Sorry, punkin, but the hell I’m consigning him to is metaphorical, since I don’t believe in an afterlife, good or bad.

    But by commenting here this way, I’m only allowing Falwell to create more division between me and people I consider my colleagues in this great blogging project. I don’t think some of the remarks directed my way were particularly fair or kind, but I suppose that my reflexive belief that kindness always matters is still more evidence of privilege.

    Oh, poor Hugo. Doesn’t understand why people are mean to him.

    Look, Hugo: You’re the one who stomped in here being divisive:

    I’ve never been so disappointed in a thread here in my life. I lashed out bitterly at the MRAs who celebrated the death of Andrea Dworkin, and I’m lashing out at those who are dancing in happiness today. I don’t care if it’s Falwell or Zarqawi, rejoicing in the death of any sentient creature, no matter their real or imagined crimes, is indefensible.

    Shame on all of you, my friends included, who celebrate this man’s passing.

    Call me an elitist asshole all you like. Jerry is in my prayers this afternoon.

    So don’t you even try to complain about the reception you got.

    You might scroll a little farther back from your own comment and note that several posters brought up the very same idea you did, but got a very different reception. Could be because they didn’t ooze self-righteousness.

  100. piny
    May 16, 2007 at 8:48 am

    I will pray for that humility, Piny, and I’m praying right now not to respond to you in kind. I like what you write too much and respect what you’ve gone through too much.

    No, seriously: fuck you. You still don’t have any idea what you’re saying, or how you sound right now. So, I dunno, add insight to the list. If you’d like to swear at me, please don’t do me any favors. It’s not less insulting than your tone right now. Most of all, don’t refrain from using coarse language because you think I’ve been through so much already.

    I recognize the tremendous damage this man did. But I am stunned that so many can’t separate the damage he did from his inherent worth and dignity as a human being, a worth and dignity that we all carry, gay and straight and transgendered, a worth and dignity that we do not lose even when we indulge in the most appalling politics.

    Heh. “Gay and straight and transgendered…” Jesus loves the little queers of the world, hm?

    What zuzu said. No, you really, really don’t. Not from the position you still hold.

    As for the comparison to Dworkin: I don’t think Dworkin and Falwell are equal any more than Falwell and Zarqawi are equal. But they are human beings, and the feminism I was raised with, write about, and teach is based on a fundamental belief in the dignity of all human beings. You can marginalize me by saying that I’m all of these things that Piny and others say I am, you can ban me from commenting, but I will not accept that rejoicing at the death of another human being is compatible with the call to justice and kindness that I see as so integral to feminism.

    We didn’t ban you, but that amounts to begging to be banned. I’m marginalizing you–if telling you that you don’t know what you’re talking about is marginalization–because you are telling people that their rage at mistreatment is less proper than your upset over their anger. These are not your offenses to absolve.

  101. piny
    May 16, 2007 at 9:15 am

    Heh. I love how the “Rachel Corrie squealed as she died!” crowd is now lecturing us on how we should be oh-so-compassionate towards the dead.

    And wasn’t this also the guy who reserved the right to beat certain people to death himself? Or maybe just into a coma.

  102. May 16, 2007 at 9:16 am

    Why should I grant an ‘inherent worth and dignity as a human being’ to someone who spent his career (and made fucking wads of cash doing it) preaching that because I’m gay and transgendered and a woman and an atheist that I had no inherent worth and dignity? The man got up on national television and said that the terrorist attacks on 11 September 2001 were my fault. He later tried to backpedal an eensy bit and say that Gawd did not smite the US for not rounding up the homos and putting them in camps, but that He did withdraw His divine protection.

    I’m gonna join the chorus of “Fuck you, Hugo” and continue to be glad the hateful wad of flesh is dead. There are plenty of people out there who are going to sing Mr. Falwell’s praises (or at least mourn his passing as a human being with inherent dignity and worth). They get airtime on national television. I get blogs like this one. Don’t dare tell me I’m a bad feminist because I’m happy to know that he isn’t breathing my air any more.

  103. May 16, 2007 at 9:22 am

    I suppose that my reflexive belief that kindness always matters is still more evidence of privilege.

    Possibly the only worthwhile thing you wrote in this thread, Hugo.

    Kindness, the expectation and the performance of, being one of the ultimate displays of privilege.

  104. Mostly Normal
    May 16, 2007 at 9:55 am

    Ok Hugo.

    I responded to you politely on this thread and you ignored me, and I responded to you politely on your own homepage and you banned me.

    You appear to have serious issues with sanctimony, pal. I suggest you read Matthew 6:2 and avoid opining for awhile about what is and is not shameful behavior.

  105. zuzu
    May 16, 2007 at 10:05 am

    Wait, he banned you, and he lets Mr. Bad rule the place?

  106. May 16, 2007 at 10:25 am

    Listen, Hugo, if you’re still reading, here’s why I felt nothing but relief and happiness when I heard Falwell died. September 11, 2001, found me in law school, my second full day of classes. I was already stressed right the hell out, I already had the feeling that I wasn’t going to understand what was going on, but no matter, I was in a city I loved, a city I’d lived in for four years, and was as close to being at home as I could get without being literally in my parents’ house.

    So there I was, in the basement of my school, studying away faithfully, when the first planes crashed into the towers up in New York. And then we heard that a plane had crashed into the Pentagon, which is across the river from where I was studying. And then it all just went to hell.

    Three days later, Jerry Falwell went on national tv and told America that I – a feminist, pro-choice, Jewish, queer woman – was responsible for the destruction and loss of life that took place on September 11, 2001. That took place, in part, across the river from where I spent most of my time. That was my fault.

    So you can take your sanctimony and your judgment and your straight-white-male privilege somewhere else. Jerry Falwell blamed me for September 11. And I’m glad he’s gone.

  107. May 16, 2007 at 10:42 am

    Mostly Normal, your comment ended up in my spam folder. I didn’t check it until minutes ago. You have not been banned, and your comment is now up. And Mr. Bad gets many of his comments deleted.

    I think I’m doing more harm than good here, and I like Feministe too much to simply piss off the good people who run it. I’m taking a day to reflect, pray, and think, and will write about Falwell tomorrow.

    I am genuinely sorry that the tone of my first comment here was so harsh. I do take hell very seriously, and to have anyone — even in jest — suggest that another human being deserves to be there is shocking to me. That’s evidence of a semantic, theological, and epistemic gulf between us that is probably too big to be bridged right now. I ought to have found a nicer way to express my disappointment.

    Peace.

  108. May 16, 2007 at 11:00 am

    I’m sick and tired of people expecting kindness and empathy towards people who repeatedly have shown themselves to not only be incapable of the same respect, but have actually used their own sociopathy to create and prop up a genocidal and bigoted society.

    Shame on you people who think this vile sack of scum deserves anything from us. Shame on you for helping to erase the pain and evil these people have caused through their bigotry. Shame on you for putting the onus on us to be the cheerful complacent ones, docilely accepting hate and intolerance.

    Shame on you.

  109. Mostly Normal
    May 16, 2007 at 11:19 am

    I do take hell very seriously, and to have anyone — even in jest — suggest that another human being deserves to be there is shocking to me.

    Really, it shocks you that other people think about who might go to hell, and make statements based on those thoughts? As a religious person, this actually startles you?

    I’ll get all my cards out onto the table right now. I’m a progressive, feminist, critical Presbyterian Christian. I get very frustrated with the following two types of Christians:
    1. The mean ones who claim they know it all, so they can judge everyone (epitomized by Falwell)
    2. The wussy ones who claim that nothing at all can be known, so no one can say anything about anything, ever

    Your “how dare we suggest any human being ever would go to this hell I believe in” seems a lot in line with number 2. Based on my interpretation of the Christian Bible, it is abundantly clear that God is no big fan of horrible people, and God has consequences for them. Since God did give me a brain and a very vague book of holy law, It’s my right to wonder about what this means. You, on the other hand, have no right to shame me for forming my own opinions about hell, or any other consequences I imagine there might be Jerry Falwell.

    You say there is a “semantic, theological, and epistemic gulf between us,” but it seems to me it’s just theological, and you’re uncomfortable with that. No one here actually claims to be able to know where Falwell’s soul is right now, and you agree that this is the appropriate position. No one misunderstood your words. Rather, you believe in God and you believe that God threatens hell but either (a) doesn’t put anyone in it or (b) doesn’t want anyone speculating about who goes in it. People here disagree with you on various points in your beliefs.

    Does it shock you that people disagree with you theologically? If it does, and your first reaction is to say “Shame on you for not agreeing with me!” you might want to think about that a little bit.

  110. Chicklet
    May 16, 2007 at 11:29 am

    Here is Falwell, in his own words and deeds:

    http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/10806.html

    I am not one bit sorry for wallowing in the schadenfreude over that ratbastard.

  111. Sally
    May 16, 2007 at 11:38 am

    You know, more than anything else in the world, Hugo craves an audience, which is to say a classroom, since Hugo can only relate to women as a teacher. He’s never going to see us as equals because he pretty much only enjoys the kind of interaction in which he is the wise man instructing the sweet young students. I’m pretty sure that if feminist blogs ignored him, he’d find another group of little ladies to instruct and mentor and guide into the light. I think that rather than pointing out his rather obvious flaws and shortcomings, we’d be better off pretending that he didn’t exist. Presumably, when we won’t play the pupil role, he’ll find someone else to bother.

  112. May 16, 2007 at 12:28 pm

    But, as it is, natural causes & 70-plus, all that’s happened is that the world suddenly has one fewer oxygen-sucking, hate-breathing asshole.

    Oxygen-sucking . . . hmmm . . . you know, moving away from Falwell’s death, and on to the various hate-breathing assholes who are still alive and problematic, ‘twould be kind of cool to plant trees to make up for the oxygen sucked up by say, Pat Robertson or Fred Phelps.

    Donations to Planned Parenthood in honor of the dead ones, and trees planted to help the environment and mitigate one minute aspect of the live ones . . .

  113. May 16, 2007 at 12:44 pm

    Donations to the ASPCA in honor of his father sound like a good idea too.

  114. SarahS
    May 16, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    I’m not sorry he’s dead, I’m actually quite happy. He was (by my non-Christian standards) a terrible person, and the world is a better place today then it was yesterday because he is no longer in it. While it sucks for his family that he is dead, I feel no need to be polite about someone who made a living (and a fat one at that) off discrimination, lies, and oppression of gay people. He was a rotten person and if there is a Christian hell, he seems to deserve a proper place in it. I don’t see anyone mocking his family members, who are the true victims of his death, but I’m not going to whitewash the fact that myself and others like me were the victims of his hateful life… which is thankfully over.

    However I do think that “Jerry Falwell is dead” parties are tacky. I’m saving up my tactless death-related party plans for the death of Fred Phelps. When that day comes, screw classy. That fucker deserves a big-assed party.

  115. May 16, 2007 at 2:35 pm

    Yeah, I’m not humping the air with glee because he’s dead (though I also wasn’t really one of his targets), but in addition to what others have said, here’s a guy who looked at the victims of September 11th and said, “This was the judgment of a righteous God.” Fuck him. Anyone who thinks the world isn’t better off without him is either a liar, an imbecile, or something much, much worse.

  116. Catty
    May 16, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    I donated to PP in Jerry’s name, and will donate to a local cat rescue group now as well.

  117. YetAnotherRick
    May 16, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    Mister Nice Guy wrote:
    “…(such as his disrespectful colleague Fred Phelps).”

    He might picket you if he knew you claimed he was a colleague of Falwell. Most people don’t actually know much about Phelps as they think. Phelps despises almost everyone. To him, Falwell is no less of a heretic than Bishop Spong or Richard Dawkins.

  118. Mostly Normal
    May 16, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    You know, more than anything else in the world, Hugo craves an audience, which is to say a classroom, since Hugo can only relate to women as a teacher.

    Well if this is true, teacher needs a lesson on using big words like “epistemology” and “ipso facto” correctly while lecturing.

  119. SarahMC
    May 16, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    This is an evil hateful man that preached hate, funded hate, and tried to get hate enshrined in law, all the while living off the fat of the insecurities and fears of others, and gloating while others died horribly.

    Bingo. It’s one thing to be a bigot. It’s another thing to amass a great deal of political power and influence and to use that power and influence to try turning America into a theocracy. He wasn’t harmless. His existance ruined many, many people’s lives; that’s for sure.
    Why do people deserve respect when they die? The TRUTH is what deserves to be spoken; not phony praise or admiration. And the truth is, Falwell made the world a WORSE place.
    Falwell was 73. His death is no tragedy. We all die eventually. I wish he was found in a compromising position (muahah) but alas, he was not.

  120. Theodora
    May 16, 2007 at 7:37 pm

    My $0.02…

    I’ve heard much talk about forgiveness on various forums… that we should forgive him for the wrongs he committed. That G-d will forgive him or whatever.

    I am religious. And what my religion teaches about forgiveness is that when you commit a wrong against someone, the only way you can be forgiven is to realize you’ve done wrong, sincerely want to seek forgiveness from those you’ve wronged and sincerely desire to strive to not commit that same wrong again in the future, and then approach those you’ve wronged, and ask for forgiveness. G-d can only forgive those wrongs commited against G-d… you’re on your own seeking forgiveness for those real flesh and blood people that you’ve hurt. G-d can forgive him until S/He’s blue in the face… it doesn’t matter. I’m not aware Jabba ever apologized for any of the vicious, hateful, bigoted vile he spent his life spewing. I’m not aware that he’s ever sought forgiveness from those thousands, if not millions, that have directly suffered as a result of inciting people to practice hatred and bigotry. And in fact, I don’t think any sincere word has ever issued forth from his overinflated fat face. He was a vile and evil human being who the world is better off without. His death does not change that, and it’s disrespectful to everyone that he has hurt to call for forgiveness or sugarcoat any of the harm he has caused.

    He had 73 years of life, a long full life, in which he could have started to make amends for his actions and words. Almost 27,000 days in which he could have woken up and said, “You know, I’ve done some horrible things and hurt people, but today I’d like to be a better person.” Time’s up. Game-the-fuck-over.

    And I, for one, have had “Hava Nagilah” stuck in my head ever since I found out the news.

    Well, actually, first I thought, “Baruch dayan emet.” Blessed be the True Judge.

    THEN I started whistling “Hava Nagilah.”

  121. May 16, 2007 at 9:00 pm

    Oh noes! Now who are we going to get to be a total dick to Jews, Pagans, feminists and gay people?

  122. lindsaypw
    May 17, 2007 at 11:06 am

    Too bad he didn’t die sooner. That’s the only way to get these people out of our government, we have to wait for death to come find them.

    I hope there is a hell, just so he can burn in it right now. Motherfucker.

  123. May 17, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    Yes, I hope Jerry’s in heaven. I also posted this on my blog this morning:

    I’m sorry that in the thread about Jerry Falwell at Feministe, I made the mistake of calling down “shame” on those who celebrated Falwell’s death. I ought to know better than to use that word in particular. There’s far too much shame in the world, far too much of it imposed by men who look like me (and believe in my God and make love as I make love) on those who aren’t men (and don’t look like me, worship another God or none at all, and make love differently.) My anger and my haste made me forget that. I’m not only sorry for having offended, I’m sorry I used words that would inevitably be offensive. It was stupid and wrong. No excuses.

  124. tzs
    May 18, 2007 at 7:40 am

    The best I can hope is that Mr. Falwell is in “heaven”–with the full knowledge and pain of every single person who was victimized by his preaching of bigotry and hatred. And that he suffer that pain until he truly understands what he did and repents.

    Death does not absolve one of the evil one has done here on earth.

  125. May 18, 2007 at 8:08 am

    I myself hope that he’s on a dairy farm on Triton that milks some sort of vaguely lizard-looking beasts of burden, because that’s just as likely.

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