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	<title>Comments on: Full Frontal Feminism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/16/full-frontal-feminism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/16/full-frontal-feminism/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:49:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: "Here we go again." &#171; Feline Formal Shorts</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/16/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105916</link>
		<dc:creator>"Here we go again." &#171; Feline Formal Shorts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 23:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/15/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105916</guid>
		<description>[...]  the recent book threads, an interesting critique came up.  In a thread at Feministe, Zuzu said: Let me define what I find alienating about theory-he [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  the recent book threads, an interesting critique came up.  In a thread at Feministe, Zuzu said: Let me define what I find alienating about theory-he [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sickle</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/16/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105878</link>
		<dc:creator>Sickle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 18:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/15/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105878</guid>
		<description>Donna, thanks for the recommendations.  I&#039;ve been checking them out and they&#039;ve been very enlightening.

And Nanette, thank you as well, though be warned I found your tone a little condescending.  I don&#039;t think that was necessarily deliberate (but I tend to think the best of people whenever I can), but thought you should know how you intially came across to me.  Sorry I missed your links upthread, and I appreciate the help!  

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donna, thanks for the recommendations.  I&#8217;ve been checking them out and they&#8217;ve been very enlightening.</p>
<p>And Nanette, thank you as well, though be warned I found your tone a little condescending.  I don&#8217;t think that was necessarily deliberate (but I tend to think the best of people whenever I can), but thought you should know how you intially came across to me.  Sorry I missed your links upthread, and I appreciate the help!</p>
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		<title>By: Feminist Review</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/16/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105831</link>
		<dc:creator>Feminist Review</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 12:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/15/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105831</guid>
		<description>I will admit that using a pseudonym obscures my identity to some degree, but it doesn&#039;t erase it. For those who care to know who runs the blog, a simple google search of my address, which is plainly featured, will do the trick. Many bloggers use pseudonyms (Nubian, petitpoussin, BlackAmazon, etc) for a variety of reasons (safety being a big one as the internet is certainly NOT a safe place for women, and like I said earlier, my &lt;em&gt;home address &lt;/em&gt;is on FR), though most don&#039;t fully hide, as you are doing. 

What causes suspicion is that you are leveling an accusation anonymously on a blog that (I&#039;m assuming) isn&#039;t yours, which is a different matter entirely than regularly writing reviews on a blog that opts not to have a hierarchy and, therefore, doesn&#039;t have an obvious spokesperson or figurehead. This is also why the &quot;Who We Are&quot; section of FR changes weekly. And we have nearly 350 writers who work with us, actually, and some of them also write using pseudonyms.

I do want to point out that the supposedly deleted posting that you described is actually on the site, and there&#039;s nothing that you&#039;ve described that isn&#039;t. Also, there are several dissenting posts - Bobichael, JenW, Anonymous (maybe that&#039;s you too?), Serenity - not just on the FFF threads, but also others. 

&lt;strong&gt;None of the accusations that you&#039;re leveling actually have any substance to back them up.&lt;/strong&gt; Yeah, that needed to be bolded. I&#039;m done here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will admit that using a pseudonym obscures my identity to some degree, but it doesn&#8217;t erase it. For those who care to know who runs the blog, a simple google search of my address, which is plainly featured, will do the trick. Many bloggers use pseudonyms (Nubian, petitpoussin, BlackAmazon, etc) for a variety of reasons (safety being a big one as the internet is certainly NOT a safe place for women, and like I said earlier, my <em>home address </em>is on FR), though most don&#8217;t fully hide, as you are doing. </p>
<p>What causes suspicion is that you are leveling an accusation anonymously on a blog that (I&#8217;m assuming) isn&#8217;t yours, which is a different matter entirely than regularly writing reviews on a blog that opts not to have a hierarchy and, therefore, doesn&#8217;t have an obvious spokesperson or figurehead. This is also why the &#8220;Who We Are&#8221; section of FR changes weekly. And we have nearly 350 writers who work with us, actually, and some of them also write using pseudonyms.</p>
<p>I do want to point out that the supposedly deleted posting that you described is actually on the site, and there&#8217;s nothing that you&#8217;ve described that isn&#8217;t. Also, there are several dissenting posts &#8211; Bobichael, JenW, Anonymous (maybe that&#8217;s you too?), Serenity &#8211; not just on the FFF threads, but also others. </p>
<p><strong>None of the accusations that you&#8217;re leveling actually have any substance to back them up.</strong> Yeah, that needed to be bolded. I&#8217;m done here.</p>
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		<title>By: Coldorderful</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/16/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105822</link>
		<dc:creator>Coldorderful</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 07:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/15/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105822</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a high school aged woman, and no I haven&#039;t read the book yet, but what bothers me are some of the comments Jessica has made in interviews, like how no young woman would ever buy a book with a raised fist and a woman&#039;s symbol on the cover. 

Look, I&#039;m not shannon, I&#039;m not sylvia, I&#039;m not exangelena. They&#039;re all incredibly intelligent, well informed young women. I&#039;m as ignorant as they come, I can admit I don&#039;t know anything about anything, and I&#039;m pretty typical in the ways I participate in American culture I think. Still, I don&#039;t think the ubiquitous stereotypes of young women as completely vapid, flaky, shallow, unable to process basic concepts and not concerned about anything except the next issue of Seventeen and if holding a book will make us unattractive to the football team or how much cosmos are or whatever are true. I hope I&#039;m wrong, but in most of the reviews I&#039;ve read by young women, they seem to feel condescended to, while it&#039;s older women who maybe tend to think kids today aren&#039;t as bright as they used to be who think it&#039;s just our speed and about all we can handle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a high school aged woman, and no I haven&#8217;t read the book yet, but what bothers me are some of the comments Jessica has made in interviews, like how no young woman would ever buy a book with a raised fist and a woman&#8217;s symbol on the cover. </p>
<p>Look, I&#8217;m not shannon, I&#8217;m not sylvia, I&#8217;m not exangelena. They&#8217;re all incredibly intelligent, well informed young women. I&#8217;m as ignorant as they come, I can admit I don&#8217;t know anything about anything, and I&#8217;m pretty typical in the ways I participate in American culture I think. Still, I don&#8217;t think the ubiquitous stereotypes of young women as completely vapid, flaky, shallow, unable to process basic concepts and not concerned about anything except the next issue of Seventeen and if holding a book will make us unattractive to the football team or how much cosmos are or whatever are true. I hope I&#8217;m wrong, but in most of the reviews I&#8217;ve read by young women, they seem to feel condescended to, while it&#8217;s older women who maybe tend to think kids today aren&#8217;t as bright as they used to be who think it&#8217;s just our speed and about all we can handle.</p>
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		<title>By: still censored...</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/16/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105780</link>
		<dc:creator>still censored...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 02:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/15/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105780</guid>
		<description>No, the review wasn&#039;t anonymous, it just used a pseudonym that obscured your real identity, on a site that claims to draw from hundreds of authors, obscuring your identity even further.  (*eyeroll*).  A pseudonym that you only connected to your real identity AFTER the FACT, in a convoluted explanation that tried to assert it was obvious all along, when in reality it truly was not.  

And again, if *not identifying oneself* is suspicious and detracts from the credibility of a comment, as you seem to say, then I&#039;ll just wait for you to go ahead and delete those numerous Anonymous comments that DID make it up on your site in both of those threads, apparently because they happened to agree with you....because, being anonymous, they must be suspicious too, right?  Oh, riiiiigggghhhtt.....

Peace.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, the review wasn&#8217;t anonymous, it just used a pseudonym that obscured your real identity, on a site that claims to draw from hundreds of authors, obscuring your identity even further.  (*eyeroll*).  A pseudonym that you only connected to your real identity AFTER the FACT, in a convoluted explanation that tried to assert it was obvious all along, when in reality it truly was not.  </p>
<p>And again, if *not identifying oneself* is suspicious and detracts from the credibility of a comment, as you seem to say, then I&#8217;ll just wait for you to go ahead and delete those numerous Anonymous comments that DID make it up on your site in both of those threads, apparently because they happened to agree with you&#8230;.because, being anonymous, they must be suspicious too, right?  Oh, riiiiigggghhhtt&#8230;..</p>
<p>Peace.</p>
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		<title>By: Feminist Review</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/16/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105769</link>
		<dc:creator>Feminist Review</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 01:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/15/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105769</guid>
		<description>My review of FFF wasn&#039;t anonymous. And I think it&#039;s highly suspicious that you won&#039;t identify yourself. I stand by my word, and my reputation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My review of FFF wasn&#8217;t anonymous. And I think it&#8217;s highly suspicious that you won&#8217;t identify yourself. I stand by my word, and my reputation.</p>
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		<title>By: censored by Feminist Review!</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/16/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105765</link>
		<dc:creator>censored by Feminist Review!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 00:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/15/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105765</guid>
		<description>ALL comments were patently NOT approved, of which you are more than aware, and I&#039;d continue to debate it with you but you&#039;re on the fast track to irrelevance and I&#039;m not going to interfere with the natural course of things.  Except I will say that by your logic (&quot;anonymous&quot; somehow = illegitimate) your own review of FFF is therefore illegitimate, since the identity of the author was not clear (no matter what your protestations to the contrary may be).  Yeah, makes no sense, I know.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ALL comments were patently NOT approved, of which you are more than aware, and I&#8217;d continue to debate it with you but you&#8217;re on the fast track to irrelevance and I&#8217;m not going to interfere with the natural course of things.  Except I will say that by your logic (&#8220;anonymous&#8221; somehow = illegitimate) your own review of FFF is therefore illegitimate, since the identity of the author was not clear (no matter what your protestations to the contrary may be).  Yeah, makes no sense, I know.</p>
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		<title>By: Feminist Review</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/16/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105762</link>
		<dc:creator>Feminist Review</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 00:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/15/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105762</guid>
		<description>What you write is patently false, not to mention antithetical to FR&#039;s mission, and it&#039;s hardly a ligitimate accusation coming from a person who posts anonymously. As I&#039;ve said elsewhere, ALL of the posts that were on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://feministreview.blogspot.com/2007/04/full-frontal-feminism-young-womans.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;FFF review thread&lt;/a&gt; on Feminist Review were approved. Perhaps what this person is referring to is a question from &quot;jenW&quot; on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://feministreview.blogspot.com/2007/04/small-note-on-full-frontal-feminism.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Small Note on Full Frontal Feminism&quot;&lt;/a&gt; thread, which was posted two days after the initial review. &quot;JenW&quot;&#039;s question was answered shortly after it was asked. To be clear, ALL of the comments on the &quot;Small Note...&quot; thread have also been approved. And I continue to approve all comments on both threads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you write is patently false, not to mention antithetical to FR&#8217;s mission, and it&#8217;s hardly a ligitimate accusation coming from a person who posts anonymously. As I&#8217;ve said elsewhere, ALL of the posts that were on the <a href="http://feministreview.blogspot.com/2007/04/full-frontal-feminism-young-womans.html" rel="nofollow">FFF review thread</a> on Feminist Review were approved. Perhaps what this person is referring to is a question from &#8220;jenW&#8221; on the <a href="http://feministreview.blogspot.com/2007/04/small-note-on-full-frontal-feminism.html" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Small Note on Full Frontal Feminism&#8221;</a> thread, which was posted two days after the initial review. &#8220;JenW&#8221;&#8217;s question was answered shortly after it was asked. To be clear, ALL of the comments on the &#8220;Small Note&#8230;&#8221; thread have also been approved. And I continue to approve all comments on both threads.</p>
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		<title>By: censored by Feminist Review!</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/16/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105755</link>
		<dc:creator>censored by Feminist Review!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 23:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/15/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105755</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad Feminist Review showed up, so I can publicly say that I attempted to post two comments in response to her review of FFF - one of which did initially appear, but I see from the link has since been removed (not for being inappropriate, I assure you, but for questioning Feminist Review&#039;s use of a pseudonym in writing the review and her convoluted explanation for it), as well as a comment subsequent to that which was never published at all.  That comment was not inappropriate either, but did have the *gall* to question your hide-and-seek method of publicly &quot;contributing to the discourse.&quot; Not trying to thread-jack here - but at least here on Feministe I know I won&#039;t be censored when I attempt to call attention to this.  

Bottom line, how disingenuous of you to say *keep it up, no one will hear you if you&#039;re silent* and pose as some noble defender of critique and disagreement, when you CENSOR dissenting opinions on your own blog and then lie about it.  That&#039;s just sad, and it makes me doubt your intellectual and moral heft and thus your credibility as a reviewer of any cultural product.  *Feminism* may not mean the same thing to everyone, but *honesty* in my eyes is a little more cut and dried.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad Feminist Review showed up, so I can publicly say that I attempted to post two comments in response to her review of FFF &#8211; one of which did initially appear, but I see from the link has since been removed (not for being inappropriate, I assure you, but for questioning Feminist Review&#8217;s use of a pseudonym in writing the review and her convoluted explanation for it), as well as a comment subsequent to that which was never published at all.  That comment was not inappropriate either, but did have the *gall* to question your hide-and-seek method of publicly &#8220;contributing to the discourse.&#8221; Not trying to thread-jack here &#8211; but at least here on Feministe I know I won&#8217;t be censored when I attempt to call attention to this.  </p>
<p>Bottom line, how disingenuous of you to say *keep it up, no one will hear you if you&#8217;re silent* and pose as some noble defender of critique and disagreement, when you CENSOR dissenting opinions on your own blog and then lie about it.  That&#8217;s just sad, and it makes me doubt your intellectual and moral heft and thus your credibility as a reviewer of any cultural product.  *Feminism* may not mean the same thing to everyone, but *honesty* in my eyes is a little more cut and dried.</p>
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		<title>By: Feminist Review</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/16/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105729</link>
		<dc:creator>Feminist Review</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 21:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/15/full-frontal-feminism/#comment-105729</guid>
		<description>I’ve really enjoyed reading all of the comments posted here, and I must confess that I have spent quite a lot of time reading this blog today. Despite the slightly unflattering manner in which it was posted, thanks to Jill for the link to Feminist Review blog’s &lt;a href=&quot;http://feministreview.blogspot.com/2007/04/full-frontal-feminism-young-womans.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;review&lt;/a&gt; of FFF.

There are a lot of half- and un-truths stated in reference the post on Feminist Review so I think it&#039;s only fair to clarify the most egregious of them. This supposed congratulatory email never happened. I did, however, send an email about an entirely different topic that said, simply, &quot;see ya ladies tonight!&quot; as I had intended to go to the book party until (essentially) being told not to by Jessica’s sister, Vanessa (full disclosure: Vanessa was my co-worker at &lt;a&gt;Girls for Gender Equity&lt;/a&gt; and a good friend, which is primarily how Jess and I know each other). This is why hearsay isn&#039;t admissable in court.

People keep writing that the review was personal, but with nothing more than conjecture to back it up. Certainly Jessica and I don&#039;t have the same feminist ideology or methods for addressing social change, but so what? There&#039;s no personal beef in that; that&#039;s a professional difference of opinion and action. I go to events/protests/speeches all the time to show support for people and organizations that I don&#039;t entirely agree with. I even vote for Democrats sometimes, despite the party being largely centrist and not on point with my ideas about social justice. So if I vote for a Democrat and then critique his or her “keep funding the troops” stance on the Iraq War or their punitive ideas about Immigration Reform, does that mean I’m somehow dishonest when I vote for her or him because I do support their unabashedly pro-choice record and efforts to pass a bill that would create Universal Healthcare coverage? My point is that I’m not so dogmatic in my own belief system that I’m not willing to give credit where credit is due, but I’m also not going to write a less-than-honest book review just because that person is my friend’s sister or a feminist colleague.

On comparing Jessica Valenti to Ann Coulter, Ann Coulter is a right-wing, polemic commentator who is infamous for making ad hominem arguments against those she disagrees with (e.g., calling John Edwards a faggot) and stirring up controversy with her less than tactful mannerisms. This is exactly what Jessica does in her book and on Feministing, but from a leftist, feminist point of view. To a large degree, it&#039;s what her fans like about her writing style.

I think it’s abundantly clear from this thread that “feminist,” like “woman,” is not a homogenous category. And although there is a lot of time and energy spent giving lip service to the desire for “sisterhood” and how “in fighting” is a cause of the stunted growth of the women’s movement, it is just this kind of necessary criticism and the demand to seen and represented that allows for voices of marginalized groups to be heard. So keep it up, y’all, because nobody&#039;s gonna hear you if you&#039;re silent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve really enjoyed reading all of the comments posted here, and I must confess that I have spent quite a lot of time reading this blog today. Despite the slightly unflattering manner in which it was posted, thanks to Jill for the link to Feminist Review blog’s <a href="http://feministreview.blogspot.com/2007/04/full-frontal-feminism-young-womans.html" rel="nofollow">review</a> of FFF.</p>
<p>There are a lot of half- and un-truths stated in reference the post on Feminist Review so I think it&#8217;s only fair to clarify the most egregious of them. This supposed congratulatory email never happened. I did, however, send an email about an entirely different topic that said, simply, &#8220;see ya ladies tonight!&#8221; as I had intended to go to the book party until (essentially) being told not to by Jessica’s sister, Vanessa (full disclosure: Vanessa was my co-worker at <a>Girls for Gender Equity</a> and a good friend, which is primarily how Jess and I know each other). This is why hearsay isn&#8217;t admissable in court.</p>
<p>People keep writing that the review was personal, but with nothing more than conjecture to back it up. Certainly Jessica and I don&#8217;t have the same feminist ideology or methods for addressing social change, but so what? There&#8217;s no personal beef in that; that&#8217;s a professional difference of opinion and action. I go to events/protests/speeches all the time to show support for people and organizations that I don&#8217;t entirely agree with. I even vote for Democrats sometimes, despite the party being largely centrist and not on point with my ideas about social justice. So if I vote for a Democrat and then critique his or her “keep funding the troops” stance on the Iraq War or their punitive ideas about Immigration Reform, does that mean I’m somehow dishonest when I vote for her or him because I do support their unabashedly pro-choice record and efforts to pass a bill that would create Universal Healthcare coverage? My point is that I’m not so dogmatic in my own belief system that I’m not willing to give credit where credit is due, but I’m also not going to write a less-than-honest book review just because that person is my friend’s sister or a feminist colleague.</p>
<p>On comparing Jessica Valenti to Ann Coulter, Ann Coulter is a right-wing, polemic commentator who is infamous for making ad hominem arguments against those she disagrees with (e.g., calling John Edwards a faggot) and stirring up controversy with her less than tactful mannerisms. This is exactly what Jessica does in her book and on Feministing, but from a leftist, feminist point of view. To a large degree, it&#8217;s what her fans like about her writing style.</p>
<p>I think it’s abundantly clear from this thread that “feminist,” like “woman,” is not a homogenous category. And although there is a lot of time and energy spent giving lip service to the desire for “sisterhood” and how “in fighting” is a cause of the stunted growth of the women’s movement, it is just this kind of necessary criticism and the demand to seen and represented that allows for voices of marginalized groups to be heard. So keep it up, y’all, because nobody&#8217;s gonna hear you if you&#8217;re silent.</p>
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