It doesn’t take away from the sadness these men experienced to observe that women are not permitted their same sadness without judgment from others.

However, I’ve also read posts that take the opposite view, whether in rebuttal or just because. Those posts claim (in essence) that LACK of subjective experience means the speaker is wrong and/or that (s)he shouldn’t have a point of view.

There is a big middle ground in between.

Two things:

On Mnemsymone’s comments about objectivity, you’re so so right. As an academic, I remember being absolutely stunned when I started taking women’s studies theory and methods research where we were told that objectivity doesn’t exist and that we could actually acknowledge our subjectivity. It was amazing and nothing I had learned before becuase we’re not trained to think that way. And of course, women’s studies is always shot down and lower on the education spectrum because its research is “not objective”.

Flea, I agree I don’t think your post trivializes the man’s experience at all. It is a hard choice either way and cerrtainly the trauma of having to choose for his wife must’ve been difficult – but I think you’re right – if a woman wrote that then absolutely the comments would’ve been different.

This immediately made me think of this post of Shakes’ and one gigantic asshat who told her that she “had no right” to reference her own experience. I don’t advise reading past say, #50 in the comments, I was literally nauseated by some of them.

If we’re not supposed to talk about our own experiences, where are all the “objective” people going to find something to talk about?

Of course, then if nobody talks about it, the problems will just go away–for the objective people. I think that’s the ticket right there.

If you’re a woman who’s been sexually harassed, you’re not allowed to have an opinion about a harassment case in the news because you’re not “objective” the way a man who’s never been harassed can be “objective.”

This immediately made me think of this post of Shakes’ and one gigantic asshat who told her that she “had no right” to reference her own experience. I don’t advise reading past say, #50 in the comments, I was literally nauseated by some of them.

We always say (or get reminded) “Anecdotal evidence isn’t.”

My question is, why the hell not? If we’re dealing with an under-recognized, under-reported, marginalized corner of experience, the only evidence we’ll *have* is anecdotal.

At what point does experience become “valid” to an argument?

I also wanted to respond to your last paragraph and say that this post absolutely doesn’t come across as trivializing that man’s story at all. Suggesting that women are also deserving of the same empathy and concern doesn’t detract from his experiences at all, nor does your tone come across as complaining about him or the reception he got. Thank you.

Unless the man presents as really liberal and/or “effeminate” in someone’s eyes.

Honestly, it’s been my experience so far that it doesn’t even really matter how liberal or effeminate you are (read that as “I am” actually), if you’re a man, you get less flack for them, and they seem to be given more weight.

So, if you’re a cynic for thinking that’s the case, I think it’s well placed cynicism.

So we’ve created this whole system (in the media, anyway) where only people who are at least one step removed from a problem are allowed to talk about it, because they can be “fair and balanced” and give points to both sides.

Sadly I think the people who like to rely on that would be upset if I pointed out that in that crazy system, I’m more objective on US isssues than they are due to not living there.

I’m thinking someone would say “you can’t understand the issues” because “this doesn’t affect you”.