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225 Responses

  1. Moira
    Moira May 25, 2007 at 3:33 pm |

    Oh, the seething hate. Jordin looks big standing next to Ryan Seacrest because Seacrest is a tiny, tiny man. Did MeMe Roth pick out Jerry Falwell to criticize for being a role model for evangelicals? Nope, she’s got to go after a (very pretty) seventeen year old girl. Classy.

  2. PurpleGirl
    PurpleGirl May 25, 2007 at 3:37 pm |

    Damn but Jordin Sparks sure is good looking. MeMe is just jealous.

  3. Kevin
    Kevin May 25, 2007 at 3:38 pm |

    I’m going to have to de-lurk for this one. MeMe Roth calling her the picture of unhealth, are you kidding me? MeMe Roth calling out a 17 year old for daring to have curves, that is the picture of unhealth. For someone claiming to be “helping the children” she seems to have missed the fact that enforcing an unattainable and sometimes unhealthy stereotype is, well, not so good for the children.

  4. BeaTricks
    BeaTricks May 25, 2007 at 3:41 pm |

    Did MeMe Roth say the same thing about Ruben Studdard when he won?

    I doubt it.

  5. Sarah S
    Sarah S May 25, 2007 at 3:42 pm |

    I am completely and totally flabergasted. Wow.

    This woman is *works* for an anti-obesity group? She gets *paid* by someone for this? And yet she seems to know *nothing* about the realities of obseity. Without knowing Jordan Sparks complete medical and genetic history, including a a health profile – she can’t predict if Jordin will get heart disease or diabetes. It doesn’t make a damn bit of difference how much she weighs or what size she wears – is she healthy? That is the only difference that this hideous woman needs to be asking. Not to mention that there is an entire history of women’s body shapes that miss MeMe (sidenote: MeMe?? What a terrible name!) seems to be hideously unaware of.

    Furthermore, I’m just appalled that a tiny white woman thinks she has the right to go on tv and criticize a young full figured black woman. That clip is disgusting.

  6. Ayezur
    Ayezur May 25, 2007 at 3:48 pm |

    If she’s obese, I’m a fucking blue whale. And my cholesterol is fine, thank you – doctor lady said so just today.

  7. Kate Harding
    Kate Harding May 25, 2007 at 3:49 pm |

    You know you’re an idiot when the commenters at YouTube aren’t agreeing that Jordin is the cow you believe she is.

    Truer words were never spoken.

  8. kellbelle1020
    kellbelle1020 May 25, 2007 at 3:52 pm |

    It seems to me she’s just using diabetes and heart disease as a front. Genetic factors have much more to do with heart disease (although obesity certainly doesn’t help). Heart disease runs in my dad’s side of the family really badly, they’re all rather delicately built & thin. For instance, at one point my dad had much higher cholesterol than my mom’s brother, who was at least 100 pounds heavier than my dad.

    Anybody working in health should know this. They should also know that a lot of fit healthy overweight people are much healthier than sedentary thin people.

    So, this is obviously about looks rather than health. Especially since, as BeaTricks said, no one raised these issues when Reuben Studdard won!

  9. Reb
    Reb May 25, 2007 at 3:53 pm |

    Jesus Christ.

    I had this same argument about Raven Simone two days ago; one of the guys in my office was commenting about watching Disney with his nieces and how he thinks Raven’s so fabulously talented, except he wishes she would lose weight so she could be a good role model.

    I, um, may have ended up getting a lecture from my boss about not getting into ideological fights at work.

  10. Hawise
    Hawise May 25, 2007 at 3:55 pm |

    I think that MeMe Roth’s organization is paid for by the multi-billion dollars a year diet industry that is taking a beating because of its unhealthy, untested weight-loss methods. Children’s parents need to buy weight loss products and enroll their children in expensive exercise clubs but they won’t, not if there is a Jordin Sparks showing that you can be a normal weight and still acheive your goals. Scrawny isn’t necessarily healthy and the more we teach and encourage good food and activity then the less we will obsess about what Jordin Sparks weighs.

  11. Moira
    Moira May 25, 2007 at 3:56 pm |

    The “health risks” are definitely a way for people like Ms. Roth to dodge accusations that any woman with, oh, hips squicks them out. My wife is a very large woman, I’m not so much, and younger. But when we go to the doctor, I’m the one with high blood pressure and high cholesterol. Changes in diet seem to have little to no effect on my cholesterol numbers — even when I cut meat out of my diet entirely, they barely move. There’s something else besides weight at issue here.

  12. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 25, 2007 at 3:57 pm |

    This is bullshit. I think bigger women are hot.
    I do think it is un-healthy to allow obesity, but this young woman in the picture isn’t obese by any means, she just looks strong and healthy.

    If everyone is so interested in the health of the children, then they need to get a commity of concerned citizens together to have a little talk with the BIG food corporations, violently at this point. The big mass food corporations are the ones purposefully making people fat, and you can bet yr last 5 bucks that they are the ones who sponsor, guess who? AMERICAN IDOL!

    Make no mistake, the corporations ARE making people fat ON PURPOSE!!! Food additives, bleach, MSG, you name it’s in our food, mainly to save money for the bigwigs. This is what makes people fat. Not fat grams or carbohydrates or sugar (albeit the ultra processed sugar that they use will.)

    Hell, I wouldn’t even blame laziness as I have seen plenty of skinny people who lay on thier ass. Hell they will lie right to your face and say that trans fats aren’t in the food and then you will look in the ingredients and notice that they can legally be put there under a different name, “hydrogenated oils” just because of the difference in verbage. That’s like saying there aren’t assholes in the whitehouse because they are buttholes.

    But no, this culture can never look at the truth, it must always make a scapegoat out of a healthy young woman while allowing the true culprits to make way with useless billions a year. All while sitting on the couch shoving corporate poison down their throats.

  13. Sarah S
    Sarah S May 25, 2007 at 4:00 pm |

    Oh, My, God,…. this woman has a blog.

    http://weddinggownchallenge.blogspot.com/

    Choice Quote:

    “Redbook always has had a friendly tone, but don’t let that friendliness lull you into comfortable obesity,” said anti-obesity advocate MeMe Roth. “If you’re post MarieClaire and Glamour but not ready for AARP, I’d suggest reading Shape or SELF and getting your nutrition information from consumer watchdog, the Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI.) The CSPI takes no corporate or political money and publishes the exceptional Nutrition Action Healthletter. Until Redbook Magazine gets real about the risks associated with extra heft rather than parading health-compromised, plus-sized women in its pages, boycott it.”

    At first I just thought she was mean, but now I’m convinced that MeMe Roth is pure unadulturated evil.

  14. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 25, 2007 at 4:02 pm |

    I noticed someone said somthing about cholesterol.
    Notice that cholesterol medications are the highest selling pharma in the country, the suits are making a killing.

    Then notice the processed foods that are made just
    to triple your cholesterol. I know I sound like a conspiracy nut, but the writing is on the wall. How else can you get people to take drugs they don’t need that will eventually make them unhealthy enough to take more drugs that they don’t need until the are the typical senior citizen that takes 20-30 pills a day!

    Eat organic while you still can is all I have to say.

  15. Astraea
    Astraea May 25, 2007 at 4:03 pm |

    I googled and found some lovely gems of wisdom from Meme Roth:

    “Somewhere between the wedding reception and delivery room, many women abandon their brains, body and libido.”

    “It’s wrong to be fat. It’s easy, but it’s wrong.”

    “Dump your friends who plan to grow fatter with every year. Surround yourself with those who aspire to greater things.”

    “Stop scape-goating your pregnancies.”

    “Refuse to excuse.”

    “We should all, with a little help from SPANX, be able to squeeze into our wedding gown, regardless if it’s several husbands or babies later.”

    Q: Any special motivation?

    MeMe Roth: I see staying fit as an obligation to my self and my family. Back in the 80s when I was Van Halen’s “number one fan,” I did get the chance to meet the band. Eddie Van Halen made me promise I’d never get fat. He said I looked like something out of Playboy. Talk about making a girl swoon… I kept my part of the bargain; maybe he’ll come to the Wedding Gown Challenge?

    found Here

  16. Sarah S
    Sarah S May 25, 2007 at 4:05 pm |

    Is anyone besides MeMe actually *in* the National Action Against Obesity?

    http://www.actionagainstobesity.com/NationalActionAgainstObesity/National%20Action%20Against%20Obesity.html

  17. Nymphalidae
    Nymphalidae May 25, 2007 at 4:08 pm |

    Women aren’t actually supposed to take up space. Duh.

  18. Tefnut
    Tefnut May 25, 2007 at 4:10 pm |

    If she’s obese, I’m a fucking blue whale. And my cholesterol is fine, thank you – doctor lady said so just today.

    I, on the other hand, am quite slim even by the ridiculous media standard, and just heard from my doctor that I have high cholesterol. In a 30 y/o female. Go figure.

  19. Dauphine
    Dauphine May 25, 2007 at 4:13 pm |

    She’s out of her mind. Jordin is a beautiful, vivid woman whereas Roth looks pale and shapeless.

  20. Lindsay
    Lindsay May 25, 2007 at 4:13 pm |

    It’s pretty interesting how this weight issue wasn’t brought up when Ruben Studdard won the competition. I’m pretty sure if anyone is overweight it was him. But you know, it’s completely ok for a male to be large because it’s masculine! But you can’t be normal sized if you’re an American woman, that’s why anorexics like Jaslene win America’s Next Top Model.

    MeMe…you are a dumb bitch. Must be easy to judge when you are a white, blonde female with the weight of a 14 year old.

  21. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 25, 2007 at 4:13 pm |

    Actually what I meant to say in the last post, is not that the food triples your cholesterol, but scars your arteries so that the otherwise harmless cholesterol builds up in the scars, it’s quite ingenious for a silent, slow, hidden and pharmaceutical laden holocaust, isn’t it?

  22. kali
    kali May 25, 2007 at 4:14 pm |

    Isn’t the statistically healthiest weight range when you have a BMI of 25-29? I can’t guess at BMIs at all; it’s never been a hobby of mine, but if I had to I’d guess that girl to be in that healthiest range, and certainly much more likely to be healthy than the average fashion model.
    Yeah, obviously you can’t actually tell anything about any individual from a generalisation about her BMI, but it looks to me as if even if it were possible, Meme would be getting it backasswards.

  23. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 25, 2007 at 4:18 pm |

    This way it doesn’t matter what your cholesterol count is, it will still build up in the scars no matter how little or how much is in your system. High or low cholesterol is meaningless to your health, it’s the scars that food additives make in your arteries that are the issue.

    Before you call me nuts, I am studying naturopathic medicine so I am somewhat studied in the matter, although I only know the basics at this point.

  24. Natalia
    Natalia May 25, 2007 at 4:26 pm |

    I couldn’t even finish watching this crap. It’s the freakin’ weekend. I don’t want to ruin my mood completely. What a drag.

  25. Amanda Marcotte
    Amanda Marcotte May 25, 2007 at 4:31 pm |

    WTF? She sees heart disease, etc. when she sees someone of what looks to be a fairly normal weight?

  26. rachel
    rachel May 25, 2007 at 4:33 pm |

    while I don’t like jordin sparks either (she is very anti-choice and has sung at rallies) to criticize her for her weight is ridiculous. apparently only skinny people have the right to exist and be celebrated for singing well. wtf?

  27. NicoleGray
    NicoleGray May 25, 2007 at 4:35 pm |

    First of all, saying that Sparks’ weight is unhealthy is what’s really unhealthy. If I had to choose between Roth and Sparks in terms of which of them appears to be a more unhealthy weight, I would have to say Roth is more likely to be clinically underweight than Sparks is to be clinically overweight. This is the sort of thing that pushes young women into endless yo-yo dieting and disordered eating.

    Second of all, and more importantly, whether Sparks is overweight or not shouldn’t even be an issue. The response to Roth’s accusations should be a big ol’ “So what?!” If Sparks is the best competitor, then she should win, regardless of weight.

  28. Sally
    Sally May 25, 2007 at 4:43 pm |

    (she is very anti-choice and has sung at rallies)

    Yeah, but she’s 17. And homeschooled. I wouldn’t be surprised if she changes her tune when she’s had a bit more grown-up experience.

    I think the thing about JS isn’t really her weight, which is pretty normal. It’s that she’s very non-petite. She’s tall and she has big bones. She takes up space. Women are supposed to be tiny and non-threatening, and here’s a happy, bouncy, adorable teenager who dwarfs many men. It’s not right. Cute, happy chicks are not supposed to look like they could beat up Seacrest without much effort at all.

    I can’t watch the YouTube clip for some reason, but I think it’s already been established that MeMe Roth has some serious issues.

  29. Bunny
    Bunny May 25, 2007 at 4:45 pm |

    Ah, but us curvy girls aren’t “normal” any more, you see? We’re clearly not sexual creatures and obviously we all stuff our faces with cake all day long and don’t exercise.

    I feel sorry for this talented, beautiful young woman. She’s going to need to be very strong willed to be successful in the music industry without giving up who she is,

    And FYI, my close friend is a UK size 6. She does, in fact, have to work not to drop to a size 4, compared to my size 12-14. She’s got a bigger appetite than I have and I’m a healthy eater. She spends more time off work than at work with illness because her body struggles without any spare reserves so what would be a nasty head cold to me is a week of frailty for her. Size and health are not related.

  30. Mnemosyne
    Mnemosyne May 25, 2007 at 4:51 pm |

    Anyone else listen to MeMe Roth and think, “Covering up for an eating disorder”?

    Seriously, if you look at someone like Jordin Sparks who is clearly a COMPLETELY NORMAL WEIGHT and see a fatty fatty fat-fat-fat, you’re the one with the damn problem.

  31. Jessica
    Jessica May 25, 2007 at 4:56 pm |

    “When I look at Jordin what I see is diabetes, I see heart disease, I see high cholestorol … She is not the vision of health, she’s the vision of unhealth.”

    MeMe should really donate her incredible psychic powers to a free health clinic. Think of how many physicals she could get done a day! I bet she could take blood pressure without even touching you. Diabetics would flock far and wide to learn how to assess their insulin level with a mirror. It would be amazing.
    Or ya know, she could stop ripping a talented young woman down and start a bike path building campaign or something.

  32. Valentine
    Valentine May 25, 2007 at 4:58 pm |

    Her father is a professional football player. She is like 7 feet tall. She’s not going to be Nicole Ritchie. She is not just “normal” looking, she is HEALTHY looking. Like a 17 year old girl needs ANY assistance fucking up her body image issues.

    You know what I see when I look at MeMe Roth? Anorexia, idiocy, and vapidness. We should fix her, too. You know, for the good of the children.

  33. Sarah S
    Sarah S May 25, 2007 at 5:01 pm |

    Before the comments really get going on this, I just want to say that I’m uncomfortable with people making fun of MeMe Roth’s weight… even though I think she is evil incarnate. Maybe she has an eating disorder, maybe she is just naturally skinny, I don’t know. I just don’t want to get into a thing where we are defending Jordin’s weight by making fun of MeMe’s… even if she is evil incarnate.

  34. BStu
    BStu May 25, 2007 at 5:34 pm |

    Certainly, if anyone is thinking of mocking Me!Me! for being thin, that would horribly miss the point. What is a valid point, though, is that her looks are buying her access to the media to promote her “cause”. She has no functional justification for commenting. She is “president” of an organization which seems to consist of only herself. Me!Me! is evidentally a stage name she constructed to seperate this persona from her professional career as a marketing and media relations professional.

    Golly. I wonder if someone might be paying her to set up an astro-turf group to advocate for weight stigmatization. She has, indeed, set her sights almost exclusively on women, either as wives or as mothers. Given that women are the primary target demographic for the multi-billion dollar diet industry, that choice seems to fit with a marketing strategy. She promotes anti-fat stunts. From the wedding dress nonsense (fraud to be fat?), to attacking the Girl Scouts, the boycott on Redbook, and her latest: she was almost arrested after trying to destroy an ice cream table at a YMCA party. And then SHE issued a press release bragging about this.

    She’s a nut, but she’s who the gatekeepers allow through. She looks the part and tows the company line. Meanwhile, fat activists have virtually no access to the media because they question the assertion that fatness is problem to be solved. Its stunning that someone as small as Jordan Sparks will get harassed over her weight, but not at all surprising. The outrage isn’t, “but she isn’t fat!” She is fat by conventional cultural standards. The outrage is that fat hatred is so dominant in our culture that even the slightest deviation gets met with hyperbolic scorn from well-placed spokespeople like Me!Me! Roth. I’m not upset that she thinks Jordan is fat. I’m upset that she thinks being fat means you should have no right to public society.

  35. Mnemosyne
    Mnemosyne May 25, 2007 at 5:35 pm |

    Maybe she has an eating disorder, maybe she is just naturally skinny, I don’t know. I just don’t want to get into a thing where we are defending Jordin’s weight by making fun of MeMe’s… even if she is evil incarnate.

    In case I was misunderstood, when I was saying “eating disorder,” I was talking about the way MeMe Roth thinks, not the way she looks. If you can look at a 6-foot-tall girl like Jordin Sparks and think that she’s not merely fat, but obese to the point of suffering health consequences, there’s something seriously wrong with you.

    (“You” not referring to, well, you.)

  36. ginmar
    ginmar May 25, 2007 at 5:38 pm |

    Holy shit, this girl is role model! She’s a healthy weight, she likes herself, she’s confident and all the rest—-what the hell is wrong with this person? Jordin is totally normal. It’s MeMe Roth who’s weird—and I have to say, her ideas are scarily reminiscent of Phyllis Schlafly.

  37. willa
    willa May 25, 2007 at 6:14 pm |

    Why on earth did CNN bring this up in the first place? What is the purpose of this nonsense? Especially since they had a guy come on to rebut MeMe and both he and the host argue extremely sane and sensible points against her–very successfully, in fact. MeMe just sounds shrill and stupid. I don’t get it.

    MeMe’s viewpoint is ridiculous and I agree with other posters that it makes her sound like she has body dysmorphia and is probably very unhealthy herself, if this is truly her viewpoint. I do still wish, however, as nutty as her views are, that the host and Ramin from Newsweek would not interrupt her all the time. They barely let her finish her sentences!

    I can’t believe I’m saying that this woman’s crazyhead views should be allowed on the show without interruption. It just bugs me that she keeps on getting talked over by the two guys. Every time a woman’s let onto a show with other men, it seems, the woman gets interrupted by the men and isn’t allowed to complete her sentences. Really annoys me, even now.

    MeMe’s still nutty, though. Jordin Sparks looks healthy, vibrant, and strong. She’s the picture of health to me. Anyone who think she looks overweight…. well. Sounds like hysteria, to me.

  38. willa
    willa May 25, 2007 at 6:19 pm |

    Ooops, I typed “CNN” in my previous post. But the clip aired on Fox News. All of a sudden this clip doesn’t seem so strange to me now.

  39. Anysia
    Anysia May 25, 2007 at 6:21 pm |

    The idiotic “most of americans are overweight, so of course she would look normal” made my jaw drop. This young woman is 6ft tall. MeMe the critic is what? 5’2? If that? Jordin is a perfectly healthy *normal* young woman. She has curves , ie hips, breasts, and other womanly features, not to be confused with barely pubescent features.
    This MeMe reminds me of another idiot. She saw a photograph of me when I was anorexic and said I looked “fabulous!”. I was 3 days from being admitted to a hospital for self starvation. Talk about skewed vision.

  40. kali
    kali May 25, 2007 at 6:22 pm |

    I’m not upset that she thinks Jordan is fat. I’m upset that she thinks being fat means you should have no right to public society.

    Yeah, I was thinking about that. Like, there’s this really annoying line in that video where the guy defending Jordin says something like “Are you saying she’s obese? That’s really hurtful,” and I was thinking “hold on a second, mister, there are worse things in the world than being obese.”

    And it’s hard to say “wait, she’s not fat,” without sounding like you’re conceding the premise that fat is bad. I probably did that myself up above.

    But the thing is, the people who have the biggest problem with women being fat are the exact same people who will accuse anyone bigger than Kate Moss of committing the heinous crime of fatness. (a dead giveaway that it’s a controlling-women thing, whether they couch it in health terms or not.) So I think you probably do have to fight them on both fronts, and not allow fatness to be defined down while also not buying into the idea that being fat is the worst possible thing for a woman to be. It’s not easy to do though!

  41. Sally
    Sally May 25, 2007 at 6:22 pm |

    Honestly, it wouldn’t seem strange to me if it were CNN, either. 50% manufactured controversy and 50% garden-variety fat-hating. Add misogyny and stir. It’s typical bullshit that 24-hour news channels use to fill time. Because it’s not like there’s anything important to talk about or anything.

  42. BStu
    BStu May 25, 2007 at 6:30 pm |

    If you can look at a 6-foot-tall girl like Jordin Sparks and think that she’s not merely fat, but obese to the point of suffering health consequences, there’s something seriously wrong with you.

    That’s the official position of the medical establishment. It may be easy to dismiss Me!Me!, but her essential point is nothing even remotely out of the mainstream. Women like Jordan are a prime target for the diet industry and the message is precisely that its not about aesthetics but about “health” or Roth’s Orwellian “unhealth”. Roth isn’t some radical wack-job in that respect. If anything, she’s extremely middle-of-the-pack.

  43. Jessie
    Jessie May 25, 2007 at 6:44 pm |

    I have been so drawn to this for the last day.

    It just goes to show us how terrible cultural inscription of our bodies really is now a days. Can any young woman show up on television without having her physical appearance picked apart as if it was an object to be molded?

    Jordin is a woman – scratch that – a 17 YEAR OLD GIRL – who looks like she actually satisfies her hungers and desires in life (food is only one). Can a woman who doesn’t actually look like she has an eating disorder be accepted? Why is appetite shameful!?

    AND – Can we ever live to see the day when Fox News doesn’t pass crap like this as credible, worthy journalism?

    I am so afraid that MeMe reflects how people and society really feels about women over a size 4 or 6. People are saying the cruelest things on blogs…

  44. BStu
    BStu May 25, 2007 at 7:00 pm |

    So I think you probably do have to fight them on both fronts, and not allow fatness to be defined down while also not buying into the idea that being fat is the worst possible thing for a woman to be. It’s not easy to do though!

    Agreed. I don’t think fatness should have any stigma attached to it, but its also clearly something our culture defines too widely as a means of controlling the definition or “normal” to mean quite thin. For all of the indignation from Me!Me! that Jordan was a picture of “unhealth” the facts betray her because statistically Jordan is likely in a group who have the lowest rates of mortality. This is something that gets officially ignored, but when the CDC radically overestimate the mortality risks of fatness, a big part of the problem is the group with the lowest rates weren’t the superthin or even the conventionally thin. They were the people labled “overweight”. This was completely disregarded, though, because the official position is that this simply cannot be. Or at least, it cannot be allowed to be.

    We should have more rational understandings of thin, average, and fat free of stigma for all groups. We don’t though, so we should be lulled into thinking that Me!Me! is presenting an extreme view because it seems so absurd to us to look at Jordan and conclude that she has a “weight problem”. Like I said, Me!Me! is very middle-of-the-pack on her essential position.

  45. Jessie
    Jessie May 25, 2007 at 7:00 pm |

    I also argue, that Roth is (obviously) such a backward victim of the patriarchal world.

    She once claimed that David Lee Roth made her promise as a teenager to never get fat?!
    That was part of her inspiration!?

    Well, there you have it. This is a prime example of an insecure woman patronizing other women to repress their desires in order to please men. To stay out of the public eye if you don’t hold yourself back from what you want.

    Her message is disguised with good intentions – the “health” argument. Yes, women (and men) should be healthy. But there is nothing inherently unhealthy with thick, a-la-Renoir curves.

    So, I ask you, fellow feminists…where do we go from here?

  46. Anne
    Anne May 25, 2007 at 7:10 pm |

    This reminds me of the morning show guy here in Atlanta who’s so upset about Tyra Banks’ “Belly Brigade” that he organized the “Beer Belly Brigade,” the male version.

    Because Tyra, in encouraging women to say “So what?” about their body flaws, was telling women it was “okay to be unhealthy.”

    Yeah.

  47. Amanda Marcotte
    Amanda Marcotte May 25, 2007 at 7:34 pm |

    Roth seems to be a belligerent anorexic, the more I read about her, compensating for her own mental illnesses by pretending the rest of the world is fucked up. The Wedding Dress challenge doesn’t come with a disclaimer noting that you’ll never have an orgasm from the day you start it, from sheer body mortification.

  48. Bruce
    Bruce May 25, 2007 at 7:53 pm |

    This is as much about race and class as it is about weight and women. Barely coded subtext from MeMe to the Fox Hounds: how dare this (barely wide-hipped, positively gorgeous) Negro win?

    You want to be countercultural in the Ivy League with MeMe: don’t do tie-dye, been there, done that, wore it to the Cape when we summered. Instead, be a woman with wide hips with a country accent, black or white, but especially black. Listen to Waylon Jennings or to Mahalia Jackson. Yeah, they really go for that at Princeton and Yale.

    It’s no secret among blacks and whites that a lot of black women got curves and don’t look like Twiggy, and that having a skinny narrow ass is a class and especially race issue. You don’t find a lot of anorexia among poor black folks, though it exists there; you find a lot of it in the patrician leaf-lined streets of Bernardsville, New Jersey; Newton, Massachusetts; Bethesda, Maryland; Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. That’s the card that’s being played here.

  49. preying mantis
    preying mantis May 25, 2007 at 7:59 pm |

    “And it’s hard to say “wait, she’s not fat,” without sounding like you’re conceding the premise that fat is bad. I probably did that myself up above.”

    Yeah, it’s similar to when somebody starts up with, say, “John Edwards is gay!” You ought to be able to shoot somebody down when they’re lying without giving the impression that you agree with their implied axiom, but it’s hard when somebody’s being such a complete dick about something. You need a full paragraph to deal with their single sentence.

  50. JackGoff
    JackGoff May 25, 2007 at 8:14 pm |

    You know you’re an idiot when the commenters at YouTube aren’t agreeing that Jordin is the cow you believe she is.

    Haha. Reminds me of this.

    Jesus, you have to be truly unhinged if YouTube freaks are calling you out on your stupidity.

  51. Myca
    Myca May 25, 2007 at 8:31 pm |

    You know, I thought a lot about what to say in response to this video, but it really all boils down to:

    Mimi Roth is really a huge fucking asshole.

    Seriously. People like her are the problem.

  52. Mwezzi
    Mwezzi May 25, 2007 at 8:33 pm |

    Jordin is absolutely stunning. She’s no heavier than Lily Allen, from what I can see, and at size twelve she’s an exceptionally attractive woman and a good role model. Extra weight? She looks pretty healthy to me.
    MeMe looks a little on the skinny side though. Maybe she shouldn’t be allowed on the TV. A mean, think of all the children she could turn anorexic at any moment. *sigh*

  53. Mnemosyne
    Mnemosyne May 25, 2007 at 8:49 pm |

    This is as much about race and class as it is about weight and women. Barely coded subtext from MeMe to the Fox Hounds: how dare this (barely wide-hipped, positively gorgeous) Negro win?

    Ay-yup. It’s especially rich coming from someone with no discernable talent to be criticizing someone who just won a nationwide talent contest.

  54. emjaybee
    emjaybee May 25, 2007 at 9:05 pm |

    You know I usually try to find something insightful to say, but: fuck off, lady. If it’s not slut-shaming, it’s fat-shaming. ENOUGH.

    Jesus. I never watch AI but I caught an episode and was surprised how talented this singer is. At least she brings a little joy to the world with her talent, unlike hateful assmonkeys like MeMe.

  55. Sniper
    Sniper May 25, 2007 at 9:12 pm |

    a) That girl is clearly very attractive.

    b) Why the hell should that matter? As a wise woman once said, being pretty is not the fee women pay for taking up space on the planet. What the hell is the matter with people who want to spread shame all over. Cripes.

  56. Blunderbuss
    Blunderbuss May 25, 2007 at 9:31 pm |

    I like how Meme looks at Jordin and only sees a walking mass of diseases.

    It’s not like she’s a person or anything.

  57. Ayezur
    Ayezur May 25, 2007 at 9:37 pm |

    Yeah, it’s similar to when somebody starts up with, say, “John Edwards is gay!” You ought to be able to shoot somebody down when they’re lying without giving the impression that you agree with their implied axiom, but it’s hard when somebody’s being such a complete dick about something. You need a full paragraph to deal with their single sentence.

    Actually, you just need one sentence:

    “How does that matter, exactly?”

    The dialogue can continue from there.

  58. Sharon
    Sharon May 25, 2007 at 10:04 pm |

    When I was 16, 5’4,” athletic, and 135 lbs, my doctor (my DOCTOR) told me that I was “borderline overweight” at a routine checkup. You have no idea how devastated I was. Also, I would like to add — I was HOT. I mean, I looked really, really good. I had fab curves and was in good shape and looked rockin’. Teenage boys (and girls) were knocking down my door in those days.

    My doctor’s comment led to me to starving myself for days (nothing to eat one day, crackers the next) and then going on a binge (eating entire boxes of cereal and entire canisters of ice cream) the next. Because of this shitty “dieting” tactic, I gained 30 pounds. I still look great. But my body was meant to look the way it did before I developed an eating disorder.

    We should definitely be fighting for the health of our children. Telling them that they’re fat is SO not the way to do it. Fox News should be ashamed of itself. Super hot young women like Jordan are really hard to find in mainstream media, everybody looks like Mary Kate Olsen and Nicole Richie… ew.

  59. Karen
    Karen May 25, 2007 at 10:10 pm |

    I agree with every bit of hate dumped on that Roth woman. I have one more: I called my late and much-beloved paternal grandmother “MeMe.” That bitch HAS to find another name. She cannot have that one.

    GIVE IT BACK, YOU BITCH.

    If she doesn’t, I’m going to eat a double Whopper with cheese and bacon and a chocolate soft-serve milkshake with sprinkles in front of her. And not let her have any.

  60. Karen
    Karen May 25, 2007 at 10:19 pm |

    Oh, and just to be clear, I actually agree with the point that she’s evil incarnate because of what she says and advocates. If she were a nice person with whom I agreed, I would be happy to let her have my grandmother’s name.

  61. Dana
    Dana May 25, 2007 at 11:11 pm |

    Kellibelle: Researchers have known for some time that heart disease is more likely to occur along with prediabetes and diabetes. There is this common misconception, though, that obesity *causes* diabetes when actually, a lot of the time it is caused by the same factors that lead to diabetes. It’s often a symptom that the disease is in a person’s future, but that’s about it. Anyway, I bet this “anti-obesity” twit goes around telling people to cut all the fat out of their diets, and that’s exactly what contributes to diabetes, because people make up the caloric difference with sugar and starch carbohydrates, leading to insulin resistance. Oh the irony. (Genetics may play some role in this, but as we’ve only had agriculture for about 10,000 years, ALL human beings have some susceptibility, and if a person eats badly enough, diabetes can show up where there previously was no family history. Just ask my dad.)

    That said, this young woman is NOT obese. What she is, apparently, is TALL. Oh, but we can’t have that. Wimminfolks’s s’posed to be tiny and dainty, don’tcha know!

  62. Lizard
    Lizard May 26, 2007 at 12:00 am |

    The only reason Jordin Sparks shouldn’t be the American Idol is because Melinda consistently sang rings around her. Hmmmph.

    MeMe Roth is stupid, dangerous, and deluded. I see that her fake organization is on a campaign against Girl Scout Cookies, too. Leaving aside all the deeper issues, I’d like to warn her that if she ever comes between me and my Samoas, she’ll be screaming louder than anything heard on “Idol” this year.

  63. Laurie
    Laurie May 26, 2007 at 12:25 am |

    This girl is fat?!? O_o *blink, blink*

    Aaah, she reminds me a bit of Layla Ali, actually. Another tall, curved, awesomely strong woman. I’d like to see MeMe waltz up to Layla and say that. Layla would break her in two.

    Seriously, just looking at that picture I can tell that she’s relatively tall and, judging by her *wrist bones*, fairly big boned. She is never going to be a teeny tiny waif, and it wouldn’t be healthy for her to try. I can’t tell what her muscle tone is like from that picture, but if she did grow up in the country, there is probably more muscle there than not. Outdoor chores build *muscle*, and it’s a beautiful thing. :)

    Why is it so hard to understand that people come in different shapes and sizes? And what is healthy for one isn’t for another? At 5’2″, my *healthiest* weight was about 130 – 135 lbs. I didn’t get sick all the time and I had some KICK ASS curves. I’d like to get back there someday. But at 5’2″, I’d be told that 135 is too heavy, and I need to lose weight. *sigh* I guess I’d better stuff my **165** pound body back into the house, then, and not walk around in public. Let alone DANCE. Or TEACH DANCE.

    Gah!

  64. exangelena
    exangelena May 26, 2007 at 12:41 am |

    “It’s no secret among blacks and whites that a lot of black women got curves and don’t look like Twiggy, and that having a skinny narrow ass is a class and especially race issue. You don’t find a lot of anorexia among poor black folks, though it exists there; you find a lot of it in the patrician leaf-lined streets of Bernardsville, New Jersey; Newton, Massachusetts; Bethesda, Maryland; Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. That’s the card that’s being played here.”

    I sort of disagree because you did clarify that anorexia exists among the black working classes, because eating disorders aren’t just a poor little rich white girl issue, women of all races and classes have them (and some men, too). Although the stereotypical obese people (in the media) are black or Hispanic, there are a lot of obese white people, too – West Virginia and Indiana are two of the most obese states in the nation and they are something like >90% white.
    Plus, there are women in all races who have curves and who are skinny. I hate to be pedantic or thread-jacking here, but there’s more than just black and white. IME, girls at my white middle class high school considered me thin, but I’m considered large or even fat among Asians at my university.
    And please, can we stop bashing the skinnies? The big problem is making people feel bad about their healthy, natural body, not whether it’s attractive or not.

  65. bluestockingsrs
    bluestockingsrs May 26, 2007 at 12:59 am |

    So, I ask you, fellow feminists…where do we go from here?

    We tell MeMe Roth and her ilk to go fuck themselves. Then we start talking about healthy at any size as an approach to being healthy.

  66. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 26, 2007 at 1:10 am |

    Actually, carbohydrates, sugars (natural sugar anyway.) and starch do not cause diabetes. It’s the genetically engineered chemical laden toxic waste that they shove on us.

    True some things are genetic. this is why some groups of people get fat, while other groups don’t. Both groups are eating poison. Just because one person has strong enough genes to resist “the bully” so to speak, of food additives, doesn’t meant that others will. Those who have weak genetics in some area’s still wouldn’t get sick or fat if they weren’t putting the “bullies” as I call them, in thier body.

    I’m tellin ya’ll eat organic. You can eat whatever you want and lose weight. Not that I look down on fat people, I just think that they have been heinously poisoned. There is no good reason to throw your natural beauty away for corporate america.

  67. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 26, 2007 at 1:10 am |

    Actually, carbohydrates, sugars (natural sugar anyway.) and starch do not cause diabetes. It’s the genetically engineered chemical laden toxic waste that they shove on us.

    True some things are genetic. this is why some groups of people get fat, while other groups don’t. Both groups are eating poison. Just because one person has strong enough genes to resist “the bully” so to speak, of food additives, doesn’t meant that others will. Those who have weak genetics in some area’s still wouldn’t get sick or fat if they weren’t putting the “bullies” as I call them, in thier body.

    I’m tellin ya’ll eat organic. You can eat whatever you want and lose weight. Not that I look down on fat people, I just think that they have been heinously poisoned. There is no good reason to throw your natural beauty away for corporate america.

  68. kellbelle1020
    kellbelle1020 May 26, 2007 at 1:12 am |

    Kellibelle: Researchers have known for some time that heart disease is more likely to occur along with prediabetes and diabetes. There is this common misconception, though, that obesity *causes* diabetes when actually, a lot of the time it is caused by the same factors that lead to diabetes. It’s often a symptom that the disease is in a person’s future, but that’s about it.

    I guess I don’t understand why this was directed at me… the whole point of my post was also that obesity isn’t necessarily the determining factor in the incidence of these diseases. I don’t succumb to the misconception you mention.

    Although I should point out that my dad’s side of the family has almost no diabetes and a lot of heart disease, while my mom’s side has more problems with diabetes and almost no heart disease. While I know quite well that the plural of anecdote is not data, it seems reasonable to suggest that genetics plays a role too. (Oh goody… does this mean I get to have diabetes and heart disease? :P)

    I guess my point all along is simply that there are a lot of correlations present, but it’s a bit harder to untangle all of these to find the causations. I think you and I both agree on this.

  69. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 26, 2007 at 1:29 am |

    Not to defend Roth or anything but girl scout cookies ARE quite poisonous and toxic. Someone needs todo ingredient work on them to say the least. But then someone would lose a profit off of what is supposed to be non-profit (cha like those exist.) organization.

    Just making sure all of you are against poisoning people with pleasant tasting crack here. It really is like a drug. Addicting, poisonous but oh so pleasant tasting. The new hidden holocaust.

  70. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 26, 2007 at 1:32 am |

    Heart disease, and diabetes are both diseases that have been around a little less than a century…coincedence?

  71. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 26, 2007 at 1:39 am |

    And again before anyone mistakes me here, I consider fat to be the poor people I see huffing to get out of thier car seat everyday. This is not right and it must be stopped.

  72. kellbelle1020
    kellbelle1020 May 26, 2007 at 1:49 am |

    Ok, red thyroid sun, I have to clear up some misconceptions of yours because they are really bothering me. I apologize in advance for being wildly off-topic.

    First of all, organic food is now PART of corporate America. Corporations have hijacked the label to sell to people who blindly buy organic just because someone told them “it’s better for you”. The majority of organic foods available at your supermarket are made in the exact same factory setting, with the exact same mistreatment of animals and other corporate bullshit as non-organic food. The reason organic food was good to begin with was because it could usually only be bought from local farmers who didn’t have most of the problems the modern food industry does. The best food to buy is still from your local farmer’s market, regardless of whether or not it’s labeled as organic. The problem is that this is too inconvenient and expensive for most people, and buying organic is easier, even though it doesn’t solve any problems.

    Also, “chemical” is NOT a synonym for “bad for you”. I come across this attitude quite often, and, as a chemist, it boggles my mind. Chemicals synthesized in a lab are not automatically poisonous. People who are huge into herbal remedies don’t realize that most drugs are derived from plants, and that the synthetic counterpart is identical on the molecular level to the active ingredient in the plant. There are many reasons for synthesizing these in a lab, including: ability to control dosage, removal of other possibly harmful chemicals in the plant, and the ability to use drugs derived from rare plants (that would go extinct if everyone used the direct herbal route).

    I am not saying that food additives are particularly good for you. I am also not denying the existence of very real problems with the pharmaceutical industry.

    What I am saying is that the problems with the food and pharmaceutical industries are far more likely to be solved when people actually understand what specifically is wrong with them in the first place. Spouting illogical and unscientific garbage isn’t going to help fix anything.

    Hey, wait a minute. Maybe if that Roth psycho took that exact same advice, she’d realize that Jordin isn’t a walking disease. (See, I really was on topic after all…)

  73. kellbelle1020
    kellbelle1020 May 26, 2007 at 1:52 am |

    Heart disease, and diabetes are both diseases that have been around a little less than a century…coincedence?

    No, it’s not a coincidence. Medical science has developed exponentially in the past century, to the point where more diseases can be diagnosed earlier and more frequently. I guarantee you people had heart disease and diabetes before we came up with names for them.

  74. kellbelle1020
    kellbelle1020 May 26, 2007 at 1:58 am |

    I should also point out that the development of vaccines and antibiotics have drastically reduced diseases common in earlier eras that lowered life expectancy. Now more people are living long enough to get heart disease, instead of dying of smallpox at a young age. This is also due to the rise of medical science in the last century, so again, not a coincedence.

  75. Lauredhel
    Lauredhel May 26, 2007 at 2:12 am |

    We tell MeMe Roth and her ilk to go fuck themselves. Then we start talking about healthy at any size as an approach to being healthy.

    And we talk about health not being a dimension in people’s personhood or morality. Everyone deserves to be treated as a human being, regardless of their size, and regardless of any illness or disability.

    We can reject the cult of moral healthism at the same time as we reject the cult of moral sizeism.

  76. Alex, FCD
    Alex, FCD May 26, 2007 at 2:21 am |

    Heart disease, and diabetes are both diseases that have been around a little less than a century…coincedence?

    No, it’s not a coincidence, because it isn’t true. Diabetes has been recognised as a disease for thousands of years. The ancient Greeks used the same name for it that we do, and it was recognized even earlier by the ancient Egyptians, Chinese and Indians (from India).

    Having diabetes and not dying immidiately is, however, a thoroughly modern habit. Yay science.

  77. Lorelei
    Lorelei May 26, 2007 at 3:15 am |

    Actually, carbohydrates, sugars (natural sugar anyway.) and starch do not cause diabetes. It’s the genetically engineered chemical laden toxic waste that they shove on us.

    Woah, what the fuck, I don’t think you can even back this up.

    I don’t claim to be a bastion of diabetes information (which is kind of my point). But when my father got type II 10 years ago, I understood the situation as being, ‘no-one really knows why or how your pancreas just stops making enough insulin, it just does. There’s lots of theories, but no-one’s quite sure.’ If this has changed, I’d love to know (with a cite, if it’s available on the internet). But coming from the woman who with a father who was convinced that microwaved food caused cancer, I don’t like to see unsupported claims like that.

  78. Lorelei
    Lorelei May 26, 2007 at 3:16 am |

    Lauredhel,

    YOU HAVE ARTICULATED SOMETHING SO WELL THAT I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO PUT INTO WORDS EVER.

    Thank you so much.

  79. Sophia
    Sophia May 26, 2007 at 3:26 am |

    This drives me nuts!! People think skinny= healthy, this is simply not the case. Being a nutritionist ( I have a nutritional science degree) people always ask me why I’m not skinny. I tell them this is my healthy weight (5’5″ 150 pounds), I’m comfortable being this size and they don’t believe me. People need to understand looking ‘big’ doesn’t mean ones obese or at risk of diseases. They have to take a lot of things into account like fat to lean body mass ratio, waist circumference, how active they are, etc…

    All I can say is that our perception of what’s healthy and normal is warped. If you’re happy, feeling good, have lots of energy and are active at a certain weight then that’s your healthy weight.

    This whole thing about keeping kids healthy but setting Jordin as a bad example is pretty invalid. To keep kids healthy, we need to teach them to have a good relationship with food, not to fear it and to be active more frequently. You don’t penalize someone for how you perceived them as unhealthy.

    I don’t understand how this woman can say all those things with such authority when she doesn’t say what kind of background she has in this field.

  80. Allie
    Allie May 26, 2007 at 4:11 am |

    Unhealthy? You know what’s unhealthy, MeMe? Me at a hundred pounds and five-four. That’s damned unhealthy — especially since my cholesterol was 270. What? What’s that you say? Fatness leads to high cholesterol, heart disease, and diabetes? —- my —-ing —- you —-ing anorexia-promoting —-!! Talk about heart disease, yeah my doctor talked about heart problems all right!

    Ok, let’s start over, less pissed off now that that’s out of my system a bit.

    This chick is woefully out of touch with the world the rest of us live in. My favorite part was “if she wins, she’ll drop forty pounds”. So the difference between “obese” and “hollywood star” is forty pounds? Yeah fricken right!

    I can’t even think about the rest of it. Argh.

  81. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 26, 2007 at 4:45 am |

    Kellebelle: I am fully aware of everything you have to say. I happened to work at an organic food store though, and I have to partially disagree with you. I have noticed a considerable improvement in my health. I know that conspiracies infiltrate every facet of life, but I still have to go with the way I feel. Peoples behaviors are considerably changed by food additives. This is the
    problem I have with science is that it goes too far with a certain opinion and refuses to account for any other point of view. I find your tone very bigoted if I may say so.

    And chemical usually nine times out of ten is bad for you in most cases, maybe not always but usually. I just believe that nature is always smarter than science and I don’t think that that makes me the dummy you obviously percieve me to be, so I would say that we are just going to have to agree to wholeheartedly disagree.

    Sure you are a chemist. Does that impress me? No. NO offense. I have seen to many cases of diabetes cured working in that little store, and I have read about even more of them thank you. Your chemistry degree; what the hell has that cured yet, if you don’t mind me asking?

  82. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 26, 2007 at 4:51 am |

    Lorelei: If you can give me some time I will find some sources I assure you. I know it seems like outlandish claims but the truth is the profession of natural medicine is widely looked down upon. You can’t really find any brick and mortar school’s to learn it in for the most part. It certainly is pragmatic, but I have seen it work. I apologize if my points aren’t scientific, but they make sense. Science isn’t always the answer to everything and I think there is a problem with a culture that thinks science MUST always be the answer to everything.

    So much science I might add, has been bought by corporations. Just remember that sisters. It’s just not my precious organic food that has been tainted mind you.

  83. car
    car May 26, 2007 at 6:32 am |

    To MeMe: weight, 195. Blood pressure, 124/82. Cholesterol, 160. Bite me.

  84. res ipsa loquitur
    res ipsa loquitur May 26, 2007 at 8:28 am |

    I wonder if “MeMe” thinks that Kathryn Jean “K-Lo” Lopez should be banned from future appearances on Fux because she might set a bad example for all the wingnuts who tune in.

  85. Joe
    Joe May 26, 2007 at 8:55 am |

    Jordan is way hotter than that skinny blonde freak.

  86. evil fizz
    evil fizz May 26, 2007 at 8:58 am | *

    I guarantee you people had heart disease and diabetes before we came up with names for them.

    Actually, the ancient Greeks knew about diabetes. If one is so inclined, you can tell by the fact that urine of a diabetic is sweet. Even the word diabetes is damn old in the English language. “Diabetes is first recorded in English, in the form diabete, in a medical text written around 1425,” according to Dictionary.com

  87. Valentine
    Valentine May 26, 2007 at 8:58 am |

    When I was 16, 5′4,” athletic, and 135 lbs, my doctor (my DOCTOR) told me that I was “borderline overweight” at a routine checkup. You have no idea how devastated I was. Also, I would like to add — I was HOT. …My doctor’s comment led to me to starving myself for days (nothing to eat one day, crackers the next) and then going on a binge (eating entire boxes of cereal and entire canisters of ice cream) the next. Because of this shitty “dieting” tactic, I gained 30 pounds. I still look great. But my body was meant to look the way it did before I developed an eating disorder.

    This is why I think things like BMI are such a crock, or at the very least a mind fuck. No one can tell me that I am not at my healthiest weight in a while right now, and that I am not cardiovascularly fit. (I swim three times a week) Yet according to my BMI I am still at the high end of obese. I don’t deny I still have a ways to go, but honestly? When things are boiled down to numbers it’s just dangerous.

  88. willa
    willa May 26, 2007 at 9:00 am |

    I thought high-fructose corn syrup was the cause of many ills today. Just to continue the organic/chemical/etc. foods thread. That crap is naaaaasty. Agree or disagree? (I’d like to start eating junk food again if corn syrup is not actually the devil’s work.)

  89. Ann Althouse's Right Breast
    Ann Althouse's Right Breast May 26, 2007 at 9:10 am |

    WDAAT? (What does Ann Althouse Think?)

  90. exangelena
    exangelena May 26, 2007 at 9:23 am |

    Um, there is a difference between overweight by media standards and overweight by medical standards. Most of the “fat” celebrities (like America Ferrara, who is a size 6) have perfectly healthy weights. And skinny doesn’t equal a clean bill of health. I know thin people who have diabetes and high blood pressure.

  91. paula
    paula May 26, 2007 at 9:25 am |

    Diabetes is related to being overweight and a sendentary lifestyle. So is heart disease. That does not mean that some thin people will not get diabetes or heart disease or that all overweight people will get both. An active overweight person may be healthier than a sedentary thin person.
    This is a complicated issue and this blond is a total calculating bitch! She wants publicity and she has got it!
    The trick is not to fall for it!
    Fox news is doing what it does best. Pit one blond skank (Meme, Anne Coulter) against an ineffective twit and get ratings.
    Don’t feed the beast!

  92. steve evfuture
    steve evfuture May 26, 2007 at 9:39 am |

    I’ll say a couple of things here. First, this woman on Fox appears possibly to have an eating disorder herself. She has that skeletal appearance, slightly covered by a big jacket, so favored by the anorexic. Secondly, American Idol is a ridiculous show. I can’t believe it is still on the air. Why can’t this country produce any decent musicians who write, play and sing their own music with originality and, dare I say, a message – about something like the war, poverty, global warming, etc.? Thirdly, is the winner of American Idol such an important event in the country that it deserves this much space on news programs?
    Americans – Turn off your televisions! They are a bad drug that has a grip on the entire country. Read a fricking book. And while I’m at it, can you please stop chatting incessantly on your cellphones (especially while driving)? There just isn’t that much that’s so important to say that it can’t wait until you get home.

  93. UNE_PuffTheMagicNegro™
    UNE_PuffTheMagicNegro™ May 26, 2007 at 9:39 am |

    /Lurk Off

    Who the fuck is this MeMe Roth? I do try (lazily) to keep up with the wingnut pantheon of punditude, but this shrillbot has thus far kept herself under my radar.

    I would also be surprised if this heloise handmaiden harpy hasn’t chosen this target to get a little bit of her racist on.

    “We know that American idol isn’t always about talent, Neil, we know that theres intangibles, about who does and doesn’t get voted off”

    Really! I was under the impression that American idol was a voluntary popularity contest. I was unaware of “intangibles”.

  94. Brighid
    Brighid May 26, 2007 at 9:40 am |

    Jordan is beautiful. Meme is ugly. People with bad eyes shouldn’t get the right to present ridiculous arguments on television. Meme can’t see Jordan’s beauty because she clearly can’t see through those magnifying, coke-bottle lenses she’s got covering her peepers. I see health problems in those ugly peepers, too, Meme! Bad eyesight is the result of heavy drinking, smoking to stay thin, and a very mean spirit. I think Meme should be fired for representing any anti-obesity organization because anorexia and bulimia ruin your eyesight, and Meme clearly exhibits those symptoms. It also makes your hair fall out Meme, so start looking for wigs, dear, you don’t want to be bald when Neil invites you back to make stupid arguments!

  95. res ipsa loquitur
    res ipsa loquitur May 26, 2007 at 9:45 am |

    Curious that she calls herself an “anti-obesity advocate,” as opposed to, say, a “pro-healthy weight advocate.”

  96. Amanda Marcotte
    Amanda Marcotte May 26, 2007 at 9:46 am |

    Eating disorders plague women of all colors. However, the stereotype is that black women take up too much space, and that is the one that Meme Roth is rather unsubtly promoting. I agree that this clip is thinly veiled racism, and because the stereotypes invoked don’t correspond with reality is just more evidence that it’s free-floating racism.

  97. Avedon
    Avedon May 26, 2007 at 9:59 am |

    Being underweight has greater known health risks than being overweight – and that kid doesn’t look particularly overweight to me, either (not that the video is very revealing; I don’t watch this stuff on TV).

    I also think that an energetic performer like that doesn’t need an agent to tell her to lose weight, since performing regularly will probably take some of it off, anyway. I never had an ounce to spare when I was performing, and I have my mother’s fat-attracting genes.

    My father, on the other hand, was underweight for most of his life, and when he had the collapsed lung, the doctor pretty much said that was to be expected with someone who was underweight.

    Also: The phrase “fat and happy” exists for a reason; a lot of people tend to gain weight when they stop being all knotted up inside. I know what I prefer.

  98. aimai
    aimai May 26, 2007 at 10:02 am |

    I couldn’t agree more with roth–this girl is *too tall* and should be punished until she becomes shorter. Everyone knows that tall people run risks that short people don’t–especially of a higher incidence of bumped heads later in life. And don’t get me started on people asking you to get stuff down from the top shelf! Think of the children! Dwarves only for american idol.

    aimai

  99. Real’s World  » Blog Archive   » ugh?  s’ whaaaat?

    [...] ugh? s’ whaaaat? May 26th, 2007 by techwoman2001 [...]

  100. Marksman2000
    Marksman2000 May 26, 2007 at 10:06 am |

    Who are these people? What is American Idol?

  101. James Robinson
    James Robinson May 26, 2007 at 10:47 am |

    BMI assumes a person of average height and build. If you’re not of average height or build it can be way off. Also, the body mass index doesn’t account for the fact that muscle is far more massive than fat, so if you’re strong your BMI will be significantly higher. Consequently, BMI pegs me as grossly obese.

    BMI assumes a person of average height, build and musculature (muscle is a lot more massive than fat, and mass is what BMI measures). This girl is an Amazon. Of course her BMI is high. If Me!Me! had any knowledge of the issue she wants to champion, she’d have known that and kept her mouth shut. 6′ and a size 12 is big (horrors!), but not unhealthy (as a tall person, she’ll have to watch her knees and her lower back, though).

    As for weight: If she’s planning a career as a singer then more is better. Weight adds depth and warmth to a voice. As for size: If she’s on stage, size and weight translate to stage presence, which will help her. As for weight, again: If she’s at a healthy, natural weight she’ll be better able to withstand the rigors of touring, which is hard on a body in the best case.

    If the marketing people don’t like the way she looks, then as zuzu says, she should pull a Kelly Clarkson and tell them where they can stick their complaint. And Me!Me! can stop taking her health and beauty standards from Eddie freakin’ Van Halen.

    Anyone in the industry bemoaning the state of popular music should ask themselves if they’d sign a young Aretha Franklin today? Or would they turn down that voice, those piano chops, and that songwriting and arranging prowess because she didn’t look like a Playboy model?

  102. r€nato
    r€nato May 26, 2007 at 11:17 am |

    jesus, she’s not even that large, really. WTF?

  103. W. Kiernan
    W. Kiernan May 26, 2007 at 11:19 am |

    red_thyroid_sun: Not to defend Roth or anything but girl scout cookies ARE quite poisonous and toxic. Someone needs todo ingredient work on them to say the least. But then someone would lose a profit off of what is supposed to be non-profit (cha like those exist.) organization.

    Just making sure all of you are against poisoning people with pleasant tasting crack here. It really is like a drug. Addicting, poisonous but oh so pleasant tasting. The new hidden holocaust.

    So if I stop eating Girl Scout cookies, I’ll live forever? Well, number one, you liar, I won’t live forever, and number two, you fool, I don’t even want to live forever. So stop annoying the Hell out of me by spouting such stupid, stupid stuff, and step out of the way, you’re standing between me and my Thin Mints.

  104. Mnemosyne
    Mnemosyne May 26, 2007 at 11:30 am |

    I have seen to many cases of diabetes cured working in that little store, and I have read about even more of them thank you.

    So, just checking — you’ve had insulin-dependent Type 1 diabetes patients come into your store and you tell them they can stop taking their insulin if they “eat right”?

    Holy shit, you’d better start building your savings now, because those people are going to sue the crap outta you once they lose a limb or their eyesight because the nutjob at the heath food store told them that it’s a myth that they need insulin. That’s assuming they don’t slip into a diabetic coma and die, of course.

  105. slythwolf
    slythwolf May 26, 2007 at 11:31 am |

    WTF? She’s not even fat. Not that there’d be anything wrong with her if she were, of course, but holy crap, she’s like Marilyn Monroe proportions.

  106. Raging Moderate
    Raging Moderate May 26, 2007 at 11:41 am |

    Certainly, if anyone is thinking of mocking Me!Me! for being thin, that would horribly miss the point.

    Then it appears that some are missing the point.

    Roth looks pale and shapeless

    a white, blonde female with the weight of a 14 year old.

    You know what I see when I look at MeMe Roth? Anorexia, idiocy, and vapidness.

    Roth seems to be a belligerent anorexic

    MeMe looks a little on the skinny side though.

    Jordan is way hotter than that skinny blonde freak.

    First, this woman on Fox appears possibly to have an eating disorder herself. She has that skeletal appearance, slightly covered by a big jacket, so favored by the anorexic.

    I think Meme should be fired for representing any anti-obesity organization because anorexia and bulimia ruin your eyesight, and Meme clearly exhibits those symptoms

    I’ve never understood the idea of criticising one for their weight because you don’t like the way they criticise others for their weight.

  107. Old Hat
    Old Hat May 26, 2007 at 11:41 am |

    Someone tell that anorexic Republican twat there’s a difference between being fat and being thick.

    Jordin has curves, with nice hips and ass. She looks great.

    Most guys prefer a woman with a real figure instead of looking like that flat-chested, no-ass, walking, talking coat hanger like that horrible bitch Meme Roth.

  108. Ereshkigal
    Ereshkigal May 26, 2007 at 11:55 am |

    I agree with MeMeMeMe — not a good message for kids. I, for one, attribute my middle-age spread to having listened to Aretha Franklin, Peggy Lee, and Ella Fitzgerald when I was a teenager.

    Obviously, I should have listened to more Karen Carpenter.

    By the way, my Mafia connections are the result of my high esteem for Frank Sinatra, and I would never have developed wrinkles except for my admiration for Willie Nelson.

  109. kellbelle1020
    kellbelle1020 May 26, 2007 at 12:10 pm |

    Thanks to the people who pointed out the history of diabetes to me. I wasn’t aware of this, and retract my earlier statement. My main point there was to point out the correlation/causation fallacy red thyroid sun seemed to be using.

    Sure you are a chemist. Does that impress me? No. ….I don’t think that that makes me the dummy you obviously percieve me to be

    Let’s get this out of the way first. I didn’t mention the fact that I’m a chemist to try to impress you. I mentioned it to back up my claims that I know something about chemistry. I don’t perceive you as a dummy. I think you lack a good science education. There’s a difference. Lack of education in a specialized field does NOT (necessarily) equal idiot.

    And chemical usually nine times out of ten is bad for you in most cases, maybe not always but usually.

    What do you think you’re made of? What do you think your organic food is made of? OH MY GOD CHEMICALS. If 90% of chemicals were bad for us, we wouldn’t exist. That would mean 90% of the entire world is poisonous, which clearly isn’t the case. If you only mean synthetic chemicals, then perhaps you should have been more clear. Even if that is what you meant, you’re wrong. As I pointed out before, there is nothing inherently evil about a chemical just because it was made in a lab.

    I just believe that nature is always smarter than science

    I honestly don’t understand this sentence. Neither ‘nature’ nor ‘science’ are cognizent entities that can have intelligence, let alone measurable intelligence.

    I find your tone very bigoted if I may say so.

    I’m sorry that you don’t like my tone, but I don’t understand how I’m ‘bigoted’. I am refuting various claims of yours that are demonstrably false. I’m certainly not prejudiced against you in any way. You’ll note that I’m commenting on your remarks about science, and am not attacking you personally. How is that bigotry?

    This is the problem I have with science is that it goes too far with a certain opinion and refuses to account for any other point of view.

    Science refuses to accept premises that aren’t supported by evidence. That’s it. It’s doesn’t go farther with an opinion than the evidence supports. And it discards an opinion if evidence to the contrary shows up. So it in fact does account for other points of view, as long as they also are supported by evidence. (I should note that the above only applies to intellectually honest and ethical scientists)

    Your chemistry degree; what the hell has that cured yet, if you don’t mind me asking?

    I haven’t cured anything, I’m not in medicinal chemistry. Most of my chemistry work has been in environmental toxicology, in which I’ve done research to pinpoint the origins of certain pollutants, so they can be cleaned up and/or reduced. I might add that I wasn’t aware that this was a contest.

  110. Raging Moderate
    Raging Moderate May 26, 2007 at 12:16 pm |

    This is the problem I have with science is that it goes too far with a certain opinion and refuses to account for any other point of view.

    That sounds remarkably similar to the creationist line of thought.

  111. Bluto W. Bush
    Bluto W. Bush May 26, 2007 at 12:42 pm |

    I know all colored people look alike but the woman singing when the MeMe person is yapping is not the same person in the photo below the video. Someone should tell Faux News.

  112. Lotte
    Lotte May 26, 2007 at 12:54 pm |

    The thing is, MeMe’s organization is mostly saying good stuff:

    Through education, legislation, and most importantly—parental action—National Action Against Obesity works independently and as a consultancy to reverse the obesity epidemic by eliminating ‘fake foods’ from the food supply, barring junk food from schools and eradicating Secondhand Obesity™ (obesity handed down from one generation to the next, as well as from citizen to citizen), while encouraging exercise across all ages. Success relies upon wholly re-imagining what the U.S. population considers “normal” food consumption and “normal” exercise.

    I really don’t understand why she felt the need to branch out into body-image hysteria.

  113. Maura
    Maura May 26, 2007 at 1:18 pm |

    Lotte, her entire organization is ABOUT body image hysteria. This entire “obesity epidemic” scare shit is all about body image hysteria, period.

    There is a difference between promoting fitness and good nutrition and demonizing people because of their body shape. Her organization is all about focusing on body shape, not nutrition and fitness.

    As for that fucking clip, I just can’t get over this:

    “When I look at Jordin what I see is diabetes, I see heart disease, I see high cholesterol … She is not the vision of health, she’s the vision of unhealth.”

    The Orwellian term “Unhealth” scares the shit out of me. Seriously.

    There is something fundamentally wrong with this MeMe character if she can look at a beautiful woman like Jordan and see only disease. MeMe seems to need serious psychiatric attention for body dismorphia issues.

  114. Anatolia
    Anatolia May 26, 2007 at 1:27 pm |

    Most guys prefer a woman with a real figure instead of looking like that flat-chested, no-ass, walking, talking coat hanger…

    It is interesting you bring that up, and I think since the discussion is so frank and pointed, I thought I’d share some equally important observations.

    Most women prefer men with a full head of thick shiny hair, even skin tone, and with upper body strength to clean the pool regularly while looking fetching in, well, nothing. If parts of a man’s body sag, hang, or shrivel, most women will be put off by that. For example, if a man’s ass is flat and saggy with no tone or form or full of unsightly stretch marks as I’ve seen on a lot of men, most women will be put off by that, particularly if it is paired with a midsection that is, well, a little too ample and has some of that back fat that hangs unattractively to frame the saggy ass. If a man lacks a gorgeous set of pecs, biceps, deltoids, and latissimus dorsi, most women will find those men less attractive than men who have these aesthetically pleasing qualities. If a man overdoes it and gets a “steroid look,” that is particularly offputting as it often is taken as a sign of self absorption and carelessness with one’s health (not to mention shrunken juicy bits and infertility). Men should be equally cautious, however, not to have bones sticking out unattractively or spindly legs or necks. Most women prefer men who are nicely proportioned head to toe.

    This in no way is intended to reflect negatively on men who aren’t as physically attractive to women, just saying…

    Saturday PSA. Enjoy.

  115. R. Mildred
    R. Mildred May 26, 2007 at 1:39 pm |

    Well, number one, you liar, I won’t live forever

    You say that but you’re not even trying.

    Old age is the result of laziness and a lack of effort. death is the result of carelessness and sexual promiscuity.

    Being this obsessed with other people’s amount of body fat is a clear sign of the pretty psychotic stage (yeah, me an alot of other people with EDs I’ve talked to about it have also experienced it, so it seems like a ridiculously normal stage of an ED) people with severe eating disorders go through when they start projecting their body dysmorphia at everyone around themselves even as they push their body harder and harder because ZOMG THEY’RE SO FAT!!!!.

    It is highly likely that this crazy lady’s teeth will eventually drop out as a result of washing the damn things in her own stomach acid after every meal. If I wasn’t myself anorexic I would totally get my smug mode ready, those without ED should feel free, schadenfraud is always worth a smile.

    I never touched the BMI standard or any standard that centered around a person’s weight becuase they ignore that muscle weighs more than body fat (which is neccesary to some degree to keep your innards… innard) and so any sort of exercise will eventually throw the thing right off.

    For instance, Bruce Lee, according to the BMI, was overweight, bordering on obese, when he died.

    BMI is a fine stanard for certain, very specific, uses.

    It is not a good standard for everyday measurements of body fat, and should never be treated as such.

  116. Dave
    Dave May 26, 2007 at 1:45 pm |

    Her canned response to a letter I wrote her

    Thank you for taking the time to write, Mr. xxxx. And your point about the video being on the NAAO site should be considered. The idea of having it there is simply the fact that we felt it was important to not hide from it… We’ve typically posted all the appearances, critical of NAAO or not.

    I understand that you are upset. And while I believe my comments can be controversial, I’d also like to be certain it’s my comments we’re talking about. Also, I do believe it’s fair, and even crucial, that we talk about child/teen obesity in this country, regardless if it’s taboo to use the word “overweight.” As you probably know, Miss Sparks entered and won a plus-size modeling contest before her appearance on American Idol, and has made many comments in this forum.

    For the record… I was invited onto news shows to discuss child obesity and the American Idol show. I have only ever used the words “tragedy” or “nightmare” to describe America’s child obesity epidemic, not a person, and not a performer on American Idol. Nor have I used the word “obese” to describe Jordin Sparks. Nor have I said her size should prevent her from winning. I stand 100% behind only the statements I made, nothing scripted to introduce any interview.

    National Action Against Obesity’s mandate is to 1) Rid schools of Junk Food; 2) Eliminate “Fake Food” from the food supply that contributes to obesity and disease; 3) Eradicate Secondhand Obesity–obesity handed down from one generation to the next…or across the culture; Plus) Promote exercise across all ages.

    I have said and will continue to say that Jordin Sparks is an amazing talent and effervescent personality. Her extra weight is a reflection of today’s society and a culture where many of our children have compromised health due to unhealthful food choices and inactivity. What seems in comparison to morbid obesity to be “just a little extra weight” does indeed increase our children’s odds significantly for diabetes, heart disease, etc…and even more so if someone is Latino, African American, Asian or Native American. We now are seeing high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and of course, type II diabetes, in our children at rates like never before.

    The context of the comment about Jordin’s imminent weight loss was aimed at unhealthful Hollywood handlers.

    Hope the holiday wknd is good to you. And thanks again for sharing your viewpoint, Mr. xxxx.

    MeMe

    Pathetic.

  117. evil fizz
    evil fizz May 26, 2007 at 2:07 pm | *

    and eradicating Secondhand Obesity™ (obesity handed down from one generation to the next, as well as from citizen to citizen), while encouraging exercise across all ages.

    Secondhand obesity? What the fuck is that? Is fat somehow now contagious or something? Also, MeMe can shoot her mouth off all she likes, that generation to generation stuff is known as *genetics*.

  118. W. Kiernan
    W. Kiernan May 26, 2007 at 2:35 pm |

    R. Mildred: You say that but you’re not even trying… death is the result of… sexual promiscuity.

    O God damn it. Then at the rate things are going in this so-called life of mine I am going to live forever.

    God damn it. God damn it. God damn you! It was only the hope of death that was keeping me alive!

  119. pfonke
    pfonke May 26, 2007 at 2:45 pm |

    So, presumably she thinks Lou Dobbs should not be given a TV show?

    Al Gore,, Jennifer Hudson should not be given Oscars?

  120. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 26, 2007 at 2:48 pm |

    kellbelle: This isn’t a contest, but I don’t think that anything I have said is a false statement whatsoever. You said that anything that isn’t supported or backed up by science is false and I say you probably shouldn’t make such claims. Whether you want to live forever or not isn’t really the point, there are some people who would like to get rid of thier diabetes and they have.

    I realize that no one will live forever, but that isn’t the point. The point is to have a quality life where one isn’t dependent on 30 useless medication, insulin etc. etc. and living in constant misery.

    Whoever said what they did about ancient diabetes; I wonder if they went around drinking the piss of ancient peoples to know that their piss was so sweet?

  121. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 26, 2007 at 2:55 pm |

    I might also add to the last statement of my last post that diabetes was a word used in ancient times for symptoms of frequent urination or even such outlandishness as melting limbs
    and disease of the kidneys. That does not mean that the word was describing the disease we know today.

  122. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 26, 2007 at 3:03 pm |

    Memnosyne: No some nut didn’t tell them that eating right would cure them. It’s not my job to sit here and write a book on the subject but it’s a little more complicated of a process than going to the health food store and getting advice from some nut
    about eating right. Don’t be so insultings.

    But yes, I have seen many people come in, that I had given no advice to and hadn’t even spoken to myself. They had gotten THEMSELVES off of insulin by their own research.
    If the would have to sue anyone it would be themselves, and I don’t think that would be necessary. I would never attempt to cure a customer without a medical licsense as you can get in BIG trouble for that and get the store closed down. They cured themselves with their own research.

  123. evil fizz
    evil fizz May 26, 2007 at 3:07 pm | *

    I wonder if they went around drinking the piss of ancient peoples to know that their piss was so sweet?

    The urine of a diabetic can smell sweet instead of acidic. (The dipsticks they use at physician’s offices to test for diabetes are just glucose indicators.) Prior to the development of such things, the way they checked was to taste it. So, the answer to your question is yes.

    Also, it *doesn’t matter* if diabetes has historically been understood to mean the same thing in all times and places. The symptomatology has been remarkably consistently described for hundreds of years.

    And all of this is completely and totally immaterial to what MeMe Roth is talking about. She’s in a state of utter panic about diabetes because she sees it as a weight issue, not a food additive issue.

  124. Hawise
    Hawise May 26, 2007 at 3:24 pm |

    red_thyroid_sun: like many conditions, diabetes is not cured but it can be controlled. In some types of diabetes diet can have a major impact that can reduce the need for medication and intervention. This is not true for all forms of diabetes and each individual sufferer meeds to know their own needs. Once your body stops producing its own insulin due to lack of islets then you need to add it to allow your body to regulate its sugar levels. Yes, your body needs sugar just not as much as we tend to give it and not necessarily in the refined forms used in processed foods.
    Going organic will help with some food additive issues, especially for people with sensitivities to certain foods but it is no guarantee if you don’t take the time to understand what those sensitivities are doing to you. This is all not the issue here.
    We know NOTHING about Jordin Sparks’ eating habits, her health issues or how her schedule will change with the new fame that is the result of her win. What we do know is that some self-righteous scrawny blonde thought that she had the right to diagnose an apparently healthy 17 year old. That she felt that it is her right to scare people about how a tall, talented woman is going to damage “children” due to her success in a popularity contest. MeMe Roth is nutsy koo-koo and is a threat to the mental health of the nation. If people who are so concerned about obesity would take the time to actually learn what it is and not carp on about the shallow crap then we might get somewhere with a very real problem but that is not going to happen as long as women like MeMe are put forth as meritorious.

  125. EG
    EG May 26, 2007 at 3:40 pm |

    Whoever said what they did about ancient diabetes; I wonder if they went around drinking the piss of ancient peoples to know that their piss was so sweet

    Yes, in fact, they did. Doctors from ancient times up to the 17th century examined urine and stool samples in a variety of ways to make diagnoses.

  126. kellbelle1020
    kellbelle1020 May 26, 2007 at 3:56 pm |

    “I don’t think that anything I have said is a false statement whatsoever.”

    So you’re willing to stand by your claims that heart disease & diabetes arose only within the past century? That 90% of chemicals are harmful? That diabetes is curable? On what grounds are you able to demonstrate that these are in fact true statements?

    Even though this sub-thread seems way off topic, I really don’t think it is. This is the same kind of thinking Meme is using as a basis for her statements. And by “thinking” I mean: an abundance of personal bias and “belief” accompanied by a refusal to even try to understand all of the complicated issues and factors involved. Asserting something to be true does not mean it is true.

  127. deja pseu
    deja pseu May 26, 2007 at 4:13 pm |

    Me!Me! Roth’s spew is an example of current cultural attitudes about weight taken to extremes. My armchair psycologist assessment is that rather than being a narcissist, she’s actually extremely insecure and feeling superior to others is mother’s milk to her shrivelled self-esteem.

    And those who noted the racist/classist undertones in her comments were spot on. Read Paul Campos’ “The Obesity Myth” for a pretty good analysis of this.

  128. Mnemosyne
    Mnemosyne May 26, 2007 at 4:28 pm |

    But yes, I have seen many people come in, that I had given no advice to and hadn’t even spoken to myself. They had gotten THEMSELVES off of insulin by their own research.

    Assuming they had Type II diabetes, all they had to do was open up a newspaper or talk to their doctor to see that it can be controlled through diet and exercise, and then find an eating and exercise plan that works for them.

    I know lots of people who control their Type II diabetes with Weight Watchers. That doesn’t mean that Weight Watchers has some magical diabetes-controlling properties. It means that Type II diabetes can be controlled through diet and exercise. People can choose to do it through health food stores, or through Weight Watchers, or through whatever diet and exercise program works best for them.

    And, um, they haven’t “cured” their diabetes at all. They’ve controlled it. If they go back to their old ways of eating and stop exercising, their diabetes will come right back.

  129. Norah
    Norah May 26, 2007 at 5:27 pm |

    My wedding gown no longer fits me…it’s too big.

    So does that mean I’m barred from the wedding gown challenge?

  130. Lauren
    Lauren May 26, 2007 at 5:28 pm |

    My armchair psycologist assessment is that rather than being a narcissist, she’s actually extremely insecure and feeling superior to others is mother’s milk to her shrivelled self-esteem.

    Actually, that’s pretty textbook Narcissism Personality Disorder, in that the self-obsession and grandiosity compensate for a feeling of inherent flaw that the narcissist will never be able to admit.

  131. Lizard
    Lizard May 26, 2007 at 5:30 pm |

    Most guys prefer a woman with a real figure instead of looking like that flat-chested, no-ass, walking, talking coat hanger like that horrible bitch Meme Roth.

    Okay, one more time: MeMe Roth sucks because she’s peddling a dangerous brand of misogynistic weight-obsession and targeting innocent people with her cruelty….NOT BECAUSE SHE IS SKINNY. And what “most guys prefer” has not one damned thing to do with anything we’re discussing.

  132. deja pseu
    deja pseu May 26, 2007 at 5:51 pm |

    Lauren, that’s why I’m only an armchair psychologist. :-) I always understood that narcissists really do think their shit doesn’t stink, but maybe I’m confusing them with sociopaths.

  133. exangelena
    exangelena May 26, 2007 at 5:55 pm |

    Lizard – THANK YOU!
    So often these weight discussions end up with people saying “skinny isn’t bad because it’s unhealthy and cruel to women’s body image, it’s bad because the menz think it’s ugly” (which doesn’t seem very feminist to me).

  134. Lorelei
    Lorelei May 26, 2007 at 6:04 pm |

    Lauren, that’s why I’m only an armchair psychologist. :-) I always understood that narcissists really do think their shit doesn’t stink, but maybe I’m confusing them with sociopaths.

    well, the reason they act that way is a result of very low self-esteem, like how Lauren described.

    http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html

  135. eriepressible™ » I Live in a Cave

    [...] of MeMe Roth.  But I saw on Feministe today that MeMe Roth is some self-appointed fat cop [...]

  136. Nymphalidae
    Nymphalidae May 26, 2007 at 8:34 pm |

    Your chemistry degree; what the hell has that cured yet, if you don’t mind me asking?

    Wow. The Republican War on Expertise is bad enough; now we have the hippy-dippy war on expertise, too.

    Yeah, how unreasonable of us to imagine that the years of intense research and study it takes to earn an advanced degree in the sciences is more legitimate than all your months of selling Grape-Nuts at the hippy store.

  137. MeMe Roth
    MeMe Roth May 26, 2007 at 9:17 pm |

    I’d like you to know that I 100% stand behind the statements I have made. One problem in this country when it comes to obesity is we’re too p.c. to say overweight is overweight. Sure, it’s the majority…Sure, it’s the statistical norm, but that doesn’t make being overweight normal. It becomes an issue of national security when two-thirds of our nation have inflicted illness onto themselves…not to mention their children. What portion of your finances have you set aside to pay for the $100 Billion annual healthcare price tag that comes with America’s obesity crisis? U.S. Comptroller General David Walker says our healthcare costs have us on course to bankrupt the country by 2040.

    Truman said it. “No nation is more prosperous than the health of its children…” Our children are not healthy.

    For the record… I was invited onto news shows to discuss child obesity and the American Idol show. I have only ever used the words “tragedy” or “nightmare” to describe America’s child obesity epidemic, not a person, and not a performer on American Idol. Nor have I used the word “obese” to describe Jordin Sparks. Nor have I said her size should prevent her from winning. I stand 100% behind only the statements I made, nothing scripted to introduce any interview.

    National Action Against Obesity’s mandate is to 1) Rid schools of Junk Food; 2) Eliminate “Fake Food” from the food supply that contributes to obesity and disease; 3) Eradicate Secondhand Obesity–obesity handed down from one generation to the next…or across the culture; Plus) Promote exercise across all ages.

    I have said and will continue to say that Jordin Sparks is an amazing talent and effervescent personality. Her extra weight is a reflection of today’s society and a culture where many of our children have compromised health due to unhealthful food choices and inactivity. What seems in comparison to morbid obesity to be “just a little extra weight” does indeed increase our children’s odds significantly for diabetes, heart disease, etc…and even more so if someone is Latino, African American, Asian or Native American. We now are seeing high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and of course, type II diabetes, in our children at rates like never before.

  138. JustAnotherJane
    JustAnotherJane May 26, 2007 at 9:42 pm |

    lol Nyphmalidae!

    Lizard — excellent, excellent point, I’m so glad someone finally pointed this out. I hate that “what men prefer” is supposed to prove anything about a woman’s worth. How does this even sneak into a feminist forum?

  139. Nymphalidae
    Nymphalidae May 26, 2007 at 9:49 pm |

    In case you care (which you probably don’t, you’re going to believe whatever you like, I imagine) I’m an entomologist who works in agriculture. And I can tell you that research has indicated there is no nutritional difference between organic produce and regular produce. Organic produce is simply grown to fulfill a niche market – and that’s fine.

  140. Lizard
    Lizard May 26, 2007 at 10:17 pm |

    Well, hey there, MeMe!

    Nor have I used the word “obese” to describe Jordin Sparks. Nor have I said her size should prevent her from winning.

    Right–you merely declined to disagree when Neil Cavuto put those words in your mouth.

    I have said and will continue to say that Jordin Sparks is an amazing talent and effervescent personality.

    Where have you said that, exactly? Not in your Fox “News” interview or on you website, as far as I can tell.

    I’d love to know how your “organization” is working to promote children’s health, besides going on the offensive against 17-year-olds,Girl Scout cookies, women who outgrow their wedding dresses, and other national security threats. What positive changes have you effected in your local school district? What sorts of tangible alternatives has your organization made available to kids with poor diets and little exercise?

    When you look at Jordin, you see diabetes and heart disease. When I look at you–as a former anorexic myself–I see a deep insecurity and a haunting obsession with food that no amount of fat-shaming will ease. I’m sad that it seems to control your life. Please don’t use it to control others’.

  141. Lizard
    Lizard May 26, 2007 at 10:32 pm |

    Okay, MeMe, I found a reference on your website to a cooperative project you organized between a local school (one of your kids’, yes?) and a Whole Foods Market, to try to show the kids that eating a variety of nutritious foods was preferable to eating bagels and Pringles every day for lunch. That’s cool.

    But then I read that the YMCA had to call the cops on you when you tried to vandalize an ice cream sundae bar. That’s not.

    Why the desperate need for grand, attention-grabbing gestures in lieu of meaningful ones that might actually do some good?

  142. Norah
    Norah May 26, 2007 at 10:39 pm |

    But then I read that the YMCA had to call the cops on you when you tried to vandalize an ice cream sundae bar.

    Seriously, MeMe? You know, it’s not the food, it’s our attitudes toward it. A little (a LITTLE) ice cream never killed anyone.

  143. Hawise
    Hawise May 26, 2007 at 10:45 pm |

    National Action Against Obesity’s mandate is to 1) Rid schools of Junk Food; 2) Eliminate “Fake Food” from the food supply that contributes to obesity and disease; 3) Eradicate Secondhand Obesity–obesity handed down from one generation to the next…or across the culture; Plus) Promote exercise across all ages.

    1) ridding schools of junk food only works if reasonable alternatives are made available in a price range that is affordable to all students.

    2) continuing the misinformation that there is “fake” or “real” food doesn’t help children (or adults) learn the difference between empty calories and balanced diet.

    3) demonizing family-related obesity without backing it up with medical testing to identify the root causes leaves children open to self-esteem issues that do nothing to lead to actual improved health.

    But thumbs up on encouraging exercise across the ages as long as it allows for variation and individual choices.

    We all need to stop treating the obesity problem as something that can be solved by soundbite- it is that easy answer culture that created the problem in the first place.

  144. TC
    TC May 26, 2007 at 10:54 pm |

    Who is this woman and why is she on television? Wow, this is the first time I’ve even mildly admired Neil Cavuto, although I wish he would have followed what appeared to have been his instincts and really put the smack down on this horrible stupid woman. And geez, she really needs an azz. BTW ladies, we love you full-figured, big, whatever term you wish to use for yourselves…or if you don’t wish to categorize yourselves. Be happy with who you are. Sure, if you want to take weight off, go ahead, but….DON’T.BELIEVE.THE.HYPE. Love yourselves. Peace.

  145. cartooncoyote
    cartooncoyote May 26, 2007 at 10:55 pm |

    Holy shit–at first, I was sure the wrong picture was posted, because I saw NO woman in that photo that could even be reasonably called “a little chunky”, let alone obese. She looks bloody fantastic, and since I’m a guy 20 years older than her, that’s all I’m saying.

    All this reminds me of the crap thrown at Alicia Silverstone when she wore the Batgirl costume in ‘Batman & Robin’; there were so many people at the time saying she looked “fat” in it that I wondered whether it was the world or me who had lost my mind.

  146. Erin PD
    Erin PD May 27, 2007 at 12:11 am |

    MeMe’s post is exactly the same as the content of the letter she sent Dave. Just thought I’d point that out.

  147. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 27, 2007 at 12:20 am |

    Wait a minute, I know some of you think that this is off topic but woah. Can any of you see why I would be against expertise?

    Hahaha.
    I quote:
    “organic foods have the same nutritional value as regular produce.”

    That sounds like a statement coming straight outta the mouth of the army of the dead. Genetic engineered produce has been shown to cause stomach leisions in rats, shrunken testicles and a host of other things like brain lesions. Not to mention the pesticides that cause cancer and the irradiation that they use to “get rid of germs’ that saps the nutritional value straight out of everything. Industrial farming and genetic engineering are sapping the soil of nutrition. Soon there will be nothing but human flesh to eat on this planet and I hope you are all happy.

    Just read the boo

    Haha…but if you are an expert on this late great society spouting nonsense like this then we are all fucking doomed.

    Seeing as how you are practically dominated by propaganda, it’s no wonder you think the way you do about organic food. You were meant to be conditioned to think that way.

    Of course corporations have tried to make it a niche market, but there are still people who stick by their claims out there and I have bartered with them face to face, so damn you. You probably work for these damn greedy pigs and get paid for your god forsaken “scientific professional opinion.” Well I am 200% healthier now, and the proof is in the pudding. I don’t need your expert opinion to figure out what feels good inside of me and what feels bad. So again, go to hell.

    Can’t you see why this is ridiculous? You all are obsessed with making meme roth a scapegoat while nitpicking about superficial pointless issues and overlooking the real truth that children are being poisoned in a heinous hidden holocaust and you fail to consider that they probably don’t want diabetes when they are 2 fucking years old. Sorry I fucking care I guess that’s what I get for being a hippy. Where did you get your attitude towards hippies anyway? South Park? Whatever.

    Fact is this country is the un-healthiest in the world, why justify that? There is no reason for it, and no one is saying you can’t have your cookies. There are just healthier better tasting cookies out there to be had. Believe me, I have no reason to lie.

    Wake up and smell the fair-trade coffee.

  148. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 27, 2007 at 12:23 am |

    Just read the book seeds of deception if you want a source that has oodles of other sources…That are all written by professors.
    Whether I am crazy are not, there are plenty of formally educated doctors that are p.hds out there that would agree with me so expertise really isn’t the point anyway.

  149. Duckman GR
    Duckman GR May 27, 2007 at 12:40 am |

    The young lady looks really good in that picture.

    That blond chick is just a hater for the right. And Faux news is just a pusher of hate, regardless of towards who or what, deep down, Murdoch just hates people because he’s such a miserable and pathetic simp of a man himself. and that attitude is at the heart of Faux. Self loathing.

    How else do you explain “people” like Cavuto and O’Reilly and Hume.

  150. mythago
    mythago May 27, 2007 at 12:54 am |

    Not quite as annoying as the pretense that fatphobia is really just concern about childhood diabetes, though.

    MeMe needs to stop projecting her fears about the size of her own ass.

  151. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 27, 2007 at 1:18 am |

    Fatphobia exists because there is somthing wrong with being fat.
    People would simply accept it as normal if it were biologically so.
    And it’s a good thing they don’t because I never would have taken personal responsibilty for my borderline obesity and beginning stages of diabetes if they would have loved me and been attracted to me for the mess that I was.

    Please understand that I am a former fat person before you rip me a new asshole. I knew what it was like. I rather like the lean muscular attractive look I have now. It makes my life better. Not my fault. Just the way it is.

  152. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 27, 2007 at 1:24 am |

    I eat whatever I want I might add…Ice cream, cookies occasionally. All organic. haven’t gained a pound unless it was lean muscle mass. Meme isn’t completely crazy.

  153. jeffaclitus
    jeffaclitus May 27, 2007 at 1:29 am |

    Fatphobia exists because there is somthing wrong with being fat.
    People would simply accept it as normal if it were biologically so.

    Yeah, because people are perfectly rational and accepting of anything that’s biologically “normal.”

  154. Mnemosyne
    Mnemosyne May 27, 2007 at 2:50 am |

    Fatphobia exists because there is somthing wrong with being fat.
    People would simply accept it as normal if it were biologically so.

    Wow, have cultural blinders on, much? Not only are there societies where fatness is the norm, it sometimes is the cultural standard for beauty, and it’s the thin women who are constantly told that they’re ugly and unhealthy. Get out from your Eurocentrism and learn something about the rest of the world.

    I lost over 30 pounds, but it doesn’t make me a better or more moral person. It just makes me someone at a normal weight.

  155. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 27, 2007 at 3:59 am |

    See, I didn’t say that it made me a better or more moral person, I said that it made me feel better about the person I am. There is a difference.

  156. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 27, 2007 at 4:41 am |

    And in response to Nemosyme: Give me some examples of cultures where obesityis the norm. As far as I know all evidence suggests that Western Culture is the only one with obesity as the “norm.”

    And I didn’t say that skinny as a rail was the answer either, I said that think lean muscle mass seems to be the healthiest.

    At any rate, I agree that the young woman in question looks completely healthy. I think Meme is wrong here, if she even said what she did. I do however agree with her on the growing epidemic of obesity and disease becaus it is very real. I think corporate america is to blame for it.

  157. Ruth
    Ruth May 27, 2007 at 4:46 am |

    “Please understand that I am a former fat person before you rip me a new asshole. I knew what it was like. I rather like the lean muscular attractive look I have now. It makes my life better. Not my fault. Just the way it is.”

    Shhhh, grls, the man is going to tell us how to be healthy, attractive women. Not his fault. Just the way it is.

    Bah

  158. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 27, 2007 at 4:54 am |

    I’m not telling you how to do anything at all. I am merely stating what I did and the way I feel about it and how it has made MY life better. I do this to demonstrate that while Roth may or may not have said some bad things, I think it is unwise to totally discount her agenda. It’s never really wise to look at anyone in such a way that is black and white.

    It seems that this thread is just focused on blindly bashing roth rather than looking at the problems with society that those taking part in this discussion could constructively consider.

    Besides, I know that no one could really WANT to be fat, come on!

  159. Amber
    Amber May 27, 2007 at 5:22 am |

    As many of you have made clear, being thin does not equal being healthy. In fact, many ‘thin’ people are “fat inside” which is just as harmful as being overweight or obese. Due to this, I am completely appalled by MeMe’s statements. I think her entire association is bullshit. Being at a certain weight does not make a person healthy. If she truly wants to help children and the futures of many people, she needs to advocate healthy eating and exercise, not simply being at a specific weight and not obese. My heart goes out to Jordin more than anything. I hope that she is able to overlook these comments, and not feel the need to change anything about herself. I’m confused as to why MeMe even had the audacity to bring the situation with Jordin up in the first place. Jordin is not obese, and she appears normal to me. I hope I never put myself on such a pedestal as MeMe has obviously put herself on.

  160. Dark_Aesthete
    Dark_Aesthete May 27, 2007 at 5:38 am |

    Besides, I know that no one could really WANT to be fat, come on!

    Okay, NOW I’m really beginning to think you’re either Me!(look at)ME!! Roth in disguise or just taking the piss. How can you speak for the motivations of people, all people who you’ve never met befire in your life? Your statement is rank with priveledge and entitlement that you think you can speak for all of us and that you’re opinion must be right, and damn, honey, just because you get treated better now doesn’t mean that thiness is a magical state in which gumdrop smiles falls out of the skies. It means that before, you encountered fat-phobic people, and I feel sorry, geuninely that you blame your own body for the prejudice of others. Just don’t do their dirty work for them here.

    Fatphobia exists because there is somthing wrong with being fat.
    People would simply accept it as normal if it were biologically so.

    Yeah, and that’s why no-one ever had any problem with people who were in the natural, biological state of being black/red_headed/left handed…Wait….

  161. Dipparoony
    Dipparoony May 27, 2007 at 5:39 am |

    I’d love to know how your “organization” is working to promote children’s health, besides going on the offensive against 17-year-olds,Girl Scout cookies, women who outgrow their wedding dresses, and other national security threats…

    I can’t get enough of the zinger in this quote.

    Yes, it was totally worth mentioning.

  162. Allie
    Allie May 27, 2007 at 6:04 am |

    “Besides, I know that no one could really WANT to be fat, come on!”

    Right now, I could charitably be called “plump”. I do, in fact, want this. The alternative is anorexic misery and visible bones. I had enough fun with that the first time, I don’t want any more.

    You don’t speak for me. You don’t speak for everyone. You don’t “know” as much as you think you do, and zuzu has asked to you get on topic and stop posting so much. It would be polite of you to comply.

  163. megabob
    megabob May 27, 2007 at 7:41 am |

    I just went over the NAAO’s site. And it seems like the only obesity they are trying to prevent is in children and women.
    The most shocking one was in my opinion “Lies women tell about their weight”
    Saying stuff like that should so be against the law…

  164. deja pseu
    deja pseu May 27, 2007 at 9:18 am |

    I guess Me!Me! hasn’t made the connection that making certain foods forbidden only increases the desire for them. Restricting entire categories of food often leads to bingeing, which ain’t healthy in anyone’s book. There’s nothing wrong health-wise with just about ANY food in moderation. I think it’s fine to promote healthier eating and exercise, but don’t link it to weight. Some people’s bodies just have a tendency to hold onto weight once gained, and may remain fatter despite good eating and exercise habits.

    But I’m also heartily annoyed by people who use weight or health or eating/exercise habits as some kind of moral barometer or measure of “character”. I’ve been on the receiving end of that bullshit, but it seems when it comes to weight, some people’s ability to apply reason just flies out the window.

  165. Torri
    Torri May 27, 2007 at 9:25 am |

    my goodness, from what I’ve seen here this Meme seems like a ‘Pro-Ana’ weirdo… you know the type that think having meat on your bones is really unhealthy but being so skinny your ribs show is an honorable life-choice.
    Because obeisantly is a really big global problem, not like anorexia, no sir *gag*

  166. mythago
    mythago May 27, 2007 at 9:47 am |

    I do this to demonstrate that while Roth may or may not have said some bad things

    If you’re not even honest enough to admit that MeMe was being an asshole, why should we believe another word you say?

    Especially the part about eating ‘whatever [you] want’. Surely you know that ice cream, cookies, etc., organic or otherwise, are loaded with fats and sugars…not so good for people who like lean muscle mass and wish to avoid diabetes.

  167. exangelena
    exangelena May 27, 2007 at 9:52 am |

    “What seems in comparison to morbid obesity to be ‘just a little extra weight’ does indeed increase our children’s odds significantly for diabetes, heart disease, etc…and even more so if someone is Latino, African American, Asian or Native American. We now are seeing high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and of course, type II diabetes, in our children at rates like never before.”
    I’m Asian, and there are a lot of people with high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high blood sugar and heart disease on both sides of my family, some of them debilitating cases – strangely, none of them are fat. I’m also tired of this “let’s scapegoat minorities!” garbage.

  168. Chet
    Chet May 27, 2007 at 10:31 am |

    Can any of you see why I would be against expertise?

    Because you’ve been woefully misinformed by the hippies you work with?

    Genetic engineered produce has been shown to cause stomach leisions in rats, shrunken testicles and a host of other things like brain lesions.

    No, it hasn’t. The scientific evidence is very clear that these foods are completely safe – because “genetic engineering” isn’t any different, really, then the guided breeding program that originally created things like corn and bananas in the first place.

    Soon there will be nothing but human flesh to eat on this planet and I hope you are all happy.

    Oh, for god’s sake. If you’re taking your cues from Soylent Green then you’re just making our point for us. But, you know, whatever. Just pretend like degrees in crop entomology and years of experience in the field – which I know Nymphalidae has – represent the same level of knowledge as a few months cashiering in an organic foods store and a movie from the 70′s starring Charleton Heston.

    Seeing as how you are practically dominated by propaganda, it’s no wonder you think the way you do about organic food.

    She’s actually seen it grown, and studied the methods used to grow it. I have, too.

    Have you? Actually been to an organic farm? What’s your experience with organic pest control? Or were you just under the impression that if you put up some signs that say “stay off the tomatoes!” the tobacco hornworms will stay away out of the goodness of their little larvae hearts? That european corn bore and western corn rootworm stay off your crops if you just ask them to, nicely?

    Where did you get your attitude towards hippies anyway?

    People exactly like you – who assume that if the science doesn’t affirm your prejudices and biases, if the science contradicts your propaganda and shibboleths, then it’s the science that is flawed. There’s really no difference between you and the creationists, you and the fundamentalists, you and the people who are convinced that the “science” proves a 6000-year-old Earth and that gay adoption messes up kids. If science doesn’t affirm your prejudice, then there’s a big conspiracy among scientists. How are you any different than the global warming deniers?

  169. Mnemosyne
    Mnemosyne May 27, 2007 at 11:13 am |

    Give me some examples of cultures where obesity is the norm.

    Tahiti, Fiji, Samoa, the Maoris of New Zealand … pretty much all of the Polynesian cultures prize large bodies. And I’m not even discussing the African cultures that have a strong preference for it as well.

    And it’s not that obesity is the norm: it’s the beauty standard. Thin women in those cultures are considered ugly and unhealthy, the same way that fat women in this culture are considered ugly and unhealthy.

    From a worldwide point of view, it’s the U.S. that has weird distorted views about weight when compared to everyone else.

  170. Tobes
    Tobes May 27, 2007 at 11:40 am |

    If anyone cares, I wrote an angry e-mail to Meme Roth and she responded. It’s all on my blog. You can read her “defense”

    tobestalks.blogspot.com

  171. JustAnotherJane
    JustAnotherJane May 27, 2007 at 12:35 pm |

    For a dose of sanity, I like to visit the Junk Food Science blog. She continually debunks myths surrounding the obesity “crisis.” Meme’s obviously never read it.

  172. BStu
    BStu May 27, 2007 at 1:43 pm |

    Love being reminded that something is wrong with me, I’m not normal, I’m going to be the downfall of the American economy, and the real problem isn’t people saying this about me but a small handful of people who respond in kind.

    I’m sick of people arguing over the best way to condemn my body. I’m sick of people arguing over who to blame over the blight my body is on our world. I’m sick of being told that someone who says I’m not normal is supposed to be the good person because someone else is saying I’m bad. Fat stigmatization has ruled our society for years. Debating over what form it should take is like debating about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Fat people deserve respect. We aren’t wrong. We aren’t evil. We aren’t abnormal freaks. Our weight isn’t a failure and the weight of a thin person isn’t an accomplishment. This goes for me, it goes for Jordan Sparks, and it goes for every fat person.

  173. Lizard
    Lizard May 27, 2007 at 1:58 pm |

    MeMe seems to be getting a lot of mileage out of her “copy-and-paste” function this weekend.

    Oh, and red_thyroid_sun, I can’t help noticing that some of your comments (notably 155 & 162) sound an awful lot like the things we hear from the “ex-gay” movement. “Admit it, nobody really WANTS to be gay! I’m glad I had people in my life who were willing to shame me until I changed! You can’t deny that life is better when you’re straight!….”

    Just an observation.

  174. Leslie Caribou
    Leslie Caribou May 27, 2007 at 2:19 pm |

    MeMe, here is my problem with what you said on Fox: you basically operated under the assumption that a woman’s body is worthy of scrutiny because she’s out in public. This is a 17 year old girl whose personal, medical and genetic history you know nothing about. You have no right to attack her body. Her body is hers, and is not on display for you to critique and draw a connection to obesity.

    If you’re really concerned about the health of Americans, than go after the junk food companies that sell their products in schools and try to find healthier alternatives that students can buy for the same price. Attacking a 17 year old girl’s body just makes you look mean, and because you’d apparently rather be mean than try to find solutions means that I will actively speak out against your organization from now on.

  175. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 27, 2007 at 3:02 pm |

    First off, I think it is very bullheaded and rude that you deleted all of the sources I was ASKED by people here to provide. I spent alot of time typing them up and you just erased them, probably because they hit too close to the mark. That is dirty,a completely unfair one sided debate, what’s the point of even having a discussion if you are just going to say “meme sucks” over and over again? It was a sub-topic but one that was related.

    Secondly, I never said that pleasantly plump was bad. In fact I find bigger boned or plump women extremely attractive and that is actually what I would prefer. My problem is with obesity.
    I can’t stand to see someone unable to get out of their car, with bad knees from carrying all of the weight etc. etc. If you think anyone wants to be like this you are insane. End of story.

    Thirdly, organic ice cream and cookies aren’t bad for diabetics, and don’t make you gain weight. You would have known this if you would have been kind enough not to erase the sources I provided. I know this because I was borderline obese/diabetic.
    Sugar and fats aren’t bad for you, It’s processed sugar and fat.

    Fourthly, I don’t know if meme said what she did, I just know the media claims she said what she did. The media is full of crap and no I am not meme in disguise. I think if she said what she did she was wrong. But just because she said one thing wrong doesn’t mean that EVERYTHING she says has no credibility. That would be a logical fallacy. Obesity is unhealthy, end of story. If you don’t think so, you might as well state that cancer is the new fashion accessory of 2007.

  176. hipparchia
    hipparchia May 27, 2007 at 3:58 pm |

    this is as far as i got in the comments:

    Women aren’t actually supposed to take up space. Duh.

    best. comment. ever.
    you rock, Nymphalidae.

  177. Angel H.
    Angel H. May 27, 2007 at 5:47 pm |

    I was just checking out her “bio” at her blog and press releases. She uses an awful lot of publications and TV news shows to try to give herself a bit of credibility. But I’d take it all with a grain of salt:

    BigFatBlog: “The Wedding Gown Challenge (Hoax?)

    Baristanet.com: “Let’s Tar and Feather MeMe”
    The New York Times: “Are Thin Mints on Thin Ice?” Use BugMeNot.com and type “select.nytimes.com” (minus the quotes) to get a password if you’re not registered.

    My fave quote from NYTimes:

    …wading into the food wars is Ms. Roth, who was a mom from Milburn, N.J., who got slightly obsessed over the American Way of Junk and started National Action Against Obesity which, in truth, is essentially her and a Web site. She has since made herself enough of a nag to get her name out there, even appearing on “The O’Reilly Factor.”

  178. TheKiti
    TheKiti May 27, 2007 at 9:18 pm |

    ALL sugar and fat found in all cookies and ice cream and all other foods (organic and otherwise) is “processed.” It would have to be, otherwise it would be indigestible by humans. Maybe the more expensive stuff tastes better, but that doesn’t necessarily make it “healthier.”

    And get a clue, please. Not all fat people are gorging themselves on bathtubfuls of soda and sinkfuls of M&Ms. Many of us eat just as “healthy” as you and exercise just as much as you, if not more so, and happen to have PCOS or have used medication that packed a lot of weight on us that no “healthy” diet and exercise regime that isn’t ridiculously obsessive and completely life-prohibiting can reverse. We’re not all the same, damn it.

  179. evil fizz
    evil fizz May 27, 2007 at 10:14 pm | *

    Thirdly, organic ice cream and cookies aren’t bad for diabetics, and don’t make you gain weight.

    They still have calories, right? Those will make you gain weight. Could you kindly dial down the intellectual dishonesty?

  180. Lorelei
    Lorelei May 27, 2007 at 11:34 pm |

    Thirdly, organic ice cream and cookies aren’t bad for diabetics, and don’t make you gain weight.

    Are you insane?

    Organic does not mean ‘sugar-free.’ The cookies and ice cream would have to be free of sugars to not be bad for diabetics, and the carbohydrates in cookies can be bad for diabetics, too. I’ve seen in health-food stores cookies made with fructose (‘fruit sugar’), which SOME diabetics can handle and some CAN’T.

    Natural sugars are bad for diabetics too, you know. A lot of diabetics’ bodies can’t handle the sugars in fruits, for example. It’s not as disasterous but still not a good idea.

  181. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 28, 2007 at 1:10 am |

    No, organic cane sugar is not bad for MOST types of diabetics. At any rate, if someone is to far progressed they can use stevia sweetener as a suitable option… I know I was borderline, and I have two generations on the maternal side that are diabetic. I provided sources to back up my claims from several reputable scientific resources. Someone erased them. What can I do?

    Anyway, you all sound just like all of the propaganda that spreads untruth about organic foods and that is probably where you got your opinion. Western culture has the highest diabetes rate IN THE WORLD!!! I can assure you that artificial sweeteners are 100 times worse for diabetics than anything organic, and that is what corporate america AND conventional medicine markets, recomends and gives to them??? INSANE!

    I can assure you from own experience that when I eat normal my skin breaks out, crusts up, dries out, I get dandruff, my neck feels swollen, my piss is yellow, my bowls are irritated, I can’t keep my legs still, I am angry, I can’t concentrate, I itch worse than a mother fucker, I gain ten pounds at the drop of a hat, I can’t breath, mucus lines the back of my throat, I have a sore throat, I have headaches, my face breaks out in acne…etc.etc.

    Sure my system isn’t as resiliant to these foods as some people, but I assure you they can’t be good for ANYBODY if they do this to me. I have no reason to lie, I just want to make people aware. Organic food fixes or extremely improves all of these symptoms for me. I think there is definately somthing to that, and I sense that some of you have had problems with your weight.

    Our children should not be poisoned any longer, it’s not fair…There is no reason for it. Unless you think mass murder is okay?

  182. B.BarNavi
    B.BarNavi May 28, 2007 at 1:18 am |

    Lizard: You should know that your “activistcash” source for MeMe’s alleged antics is a corporate front group with a vendetta against consumer advocacy in any form, couched in “buyer’s choice” platitudes.

  183. Mnemosyne
    Mnemosyne May 28, 2007 at 1:27 am |

    Are you insane?

    At this point, do you even have to ask?

  184. Erin PD
    Erin PD May 28, 2007 at 3:06 am |

    They still have calories, right? Those will make you gain weight. Could you kindly dial down the intellectual dishonesty?

    Thank you, evil fizz. Food is food. With or without the dreaded “chemicals” that thyroid has been blathering on about, it has calories. Too many calories in, too little burned off = weight gain in most people. That’s all. Organic food will not keep one from gaining weight in and of itself.

    And what Lorelei said.

  185. Sabyn
    Sabyn May 28, 2007 at 6:23 am |

    I have lupus and fibromyalgia. I can’t excercise because of my disability. I am in a flare. My cholesterols were high, my blood sugars were requiring oral diabetes medication. I am practically bed ridden.

    I started eating the organic diet in april of 06 and by december I had lost 43 lbs. My cholesterols are now down within normal limits, my blood sugars are on the lower end with no more medication.

    I am a strong advocate of organic food, and I am also scared of what is in normal food.

  186. Callie
    Callie May 28, 2007 at 7:09 am |

    Thirdly, organic ice cream and cookies aren’t bad for diabetics, and don’t make you gain weight.

    Ahahahaha!

    I missed this whole debate this weekend.

    Oh man. What a shame. What nuts.

    My guess as to why Roth picked on Jordin instead of, say, Jerry Falwell, has to do with more than just the fact that Jordin is a woman, but also that she is a woman of color. Fox helped her out by showing, in that montage, other women of color from American Idol who aren’t thin. No chubby white people. (Apologies if I missed a comment above where someone already made this argument.)

    And regarding the absurdity of calling Jordin fat… I am a tall, big-framed woman who always hangs out at the top of end of “normal” in those government-dictated weight charts. I look big standing next to small guys too, but even the government wouldn’t call me overweight. It’s useless to try to guess someone’s weight by looking at them. As Jordin hasn’t put her measurements up for the world to scrutinize, it’s probably none of our business.

  187. Julie
    Julie May 28, 2007 at 11:32 am |

    Meme thinks that calling Jordin fat will make her look skinnier and better, but she’s just lame and ignorant. People shouldn’t even let this woman be on television! Jordin is still a teenager and it’s normal for her body to look less healthy…even thought I personaly believe that it’s perfectly normal. And by the way, I’m about the same weight as her and doctors tell me that I’m healthy. Meme is just pathetic.

  188. mythago
    mythago May 28, 2007 at 1:16 pm |

    Sugar and fats aren’t bad for you, It’s processed sugar and fat.

    Do you even believe the crap you’re posting?

    As for ‘what MeMe said’, you could go watch the clip. But I guess that’s not as exciting as spewing your weird issues about your own body.

  189. Feministe » But yes, she is horrible.

    [...]

    5.28.2007

    But yes, she is horrible.
    Posted by piny @ 2:19 pm

    [...]

  190. Feministe » But yes, she is horrible.

    [...]

    5.28.2007

    But yes, she is horrible.
    Posted by piny @ 2:19 pm

    [...]

  191. Ron Good
    Ron Good May 28, 2007 at 3:07 pm |

    Fatphobia exists because control freaks with a propensity towards judgmentalism and ostracism of folks different than themselves aren’t socially accepted any more when they attack, say, visible minorities, gay folks or people of differing religions–and the control freaks are getting bored attacking smokers.

    The underlying psychology behind the attacks hasn’t changed one iota; it’s just the targets and rationalizations morphed to fit those targets that changes. In other words, and to paraphrase Henri-Levy, it’s just the same barbarism hoping for a slightly more human face.

  192. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 28, 2007 at 3:08 pm |

    Sure, I am completely insane. My sanity is measured by psychological standards that are much the same as the institutionalized standards that measure what is obese and healthy.

    I am also correct in every way. I could speak to 20 people who’s lives have been drastically changed by ideas as insane as mine.
    This scientific “Dana Scully” skeptisism is useless and just promotes antiquated thought that is appalling coming from people who claim to be “experts”.

    Perhaps Meme knew that she wouldn’t be able to voice her true opinion about Western culture without being an asshole. For god sakes the unibomber had to kill several people for the media even listened to what he said. Maybe meme isn’t really all bad?

  193. Karolena
    Karolena May 28, 2007 at 3:37 pm |

    Anatolia at 116: you are my new hero.

  194. Ron Good
    Ron Good May 28, 2007 at 3:43 pm |

    red_thyroid_sun: When your concerns are with helping yourself or controlling your own diet, who could have a problem…nothing wrong with that no matter what opinions you hold. However, when you go from that to “I assure you they can’t be good for ANYBODY if they do this to me” you cross the line, especially when you go from that to working to legislate the choices of those around you. Diabetics can’t take sugar, but that doesn’t mean sugar is bad for everybody; same-same with gluten or any number of other things. For example, I react badly to most bar soaps; that doesn’t mean I go around telling folks that “bar soap is bad” or “bar soap ought not to be sold”.
    here’s how I handle it: I just don’t buy bar soap and only if people ask why, I tell ‘em. Otherwise, I just get on with my life and do my best to leave folks to their own choices.

    As for folks who want to “Eliminate Fake Food from the food supply that contributes to obesity and disease” I hope they understand clearly exactly how much control I am willing to give them over what I eat, which is:none. Sometimes I eat things just because I like ‘em.

    As for this gem: “I am also correct in every way”…uh…no you’re not. For starters, you have a propensity to make sweeping generalizations based on your own personal experience coupled with the anecdotal evidence you trot out thinking it supports your case–and I’m sure you also comb scientific data for evidence that supports the opinion you already hold. I mean, fine to be like that (everybody has faults), but it’s somewhat short of “correct in every way”.

  195. Lorelei
    Lorelei May 28, 2007 at 5:06 pm |

    RED THYROID.

    ORGANIC ICE CREAM IS *NOT* GOOD FOR DIABETICS, UNLESS IT IS ALSO SUGAR FREE. IN WHICH THEY USUALLY HAVE ARTIFICAL SUGAR COMPLEXES, LIKE SORBITAL. I AM NOT PART OF THE GOVERNMENT, THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES, OR THE FOOD INDUSTRY. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I KNOW PEOPLE WITH DIABETIES.

    I’M SORRY. YOU ARE WRONG.

  196. Lorelei
    Lorelei May 28, 2007 at 5:09 pm |

    I correct myself, sorbitol is not exactly unnatural. Uh, I’ll have wikipedia explain for me.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbitol

    It seems that it isn’t any better for you than what you call ‘processed sugars.’

  197. Callie
    Callie May 28, 2007 at 5:18 pm |

    This scientific “Dana Scully” skeptisism is useless

    Oh my gosh, that didn’t just happen. You did not seriously just drop Dana Scully into this conversation as an example of the classical scientific skeptic. But yet you did, you did! X-Files forever man!

    For god sakes the unibomber had to kill several people for the media even listened to what he said.

    …And that’s when you went from quirky to creepy.

  198. Amanda Marcotte
    Amanda Marcotte May 28, 2007 at 7:12 pm |

    Roth seems to be a belligerent anorexic

    While I’m aware that your defensiveness of her stems from your own personal taste for underfed women, RM, I have to make it clear that I called Roth a belligerent anorexic because of her attitude, not her weight.

  199. Chet
    Chet May 28, 2007 at 8:40 pm |

    Anyway, you all sound just like all of the propaganda that spreads untruth about organic foods and that is probably where you got your opinion.

    No, as I explained – a lot of us arrived at our conclusions about organic foods from researching the issue, and from first-hand experience with how organic foods are grown, processed, and marketed.

    But, you know, just keep ignoring that.

    Sugar and fats aren’t bad for you, It’s processed sugar and fat.

    And what do you think the processing does to make them “bad”, exactly? Contrary to your assertion it’s more than possible to wreck your metabolism with cane sugar and “natural” fats like plant oils and animal fats. It’s harder, because there’s less of them in those foods, but there’s really not any chemical difference from processing; in most cases it’s a matter of purification. (High-fructose corn syrup would be an exception.)

    This scientific “Dana Scully” skeptisism is useless and just promotes antiquated thought that is appalling coming from people who claim to be “experts”.

    Ah, right. Skepticism is bad; we should all just have faith in organic foods. It’s really just another religion to you, isn’t it?

  200. The Bisexualist
    The Bisexualist May 28, 2007 at 9:51 pm |

    Jordin weighs in on the burning issue of the day

    …the real question is why the hell these hateful individuals keep getting air time, and on so-called news programs, yet. If for some reason you have not already seen the video, go to Feministe and check it out.

  201. kellbelle1020
    kellbelle1020 May 29, 2007 at 1:42 am |

    “I am also correct in every way.”

    Really? I still haven’t heard a sound basis for several demonstrably false claims of yours I’ve addressed earlier. And no using the “my links won’t pass moderation” excuse – I’m sure you have enough knowledge to succinctly summarize the relevent theses.

    “This scientific “Dana Scully” skeptisism is useless and just promotes antiquated thought that is appalling coming from people who claim to be “experts”.”

    Haha, yes, SKEPTICISM is the reason antiquated thoughts like young-earth creationism persist. Why has no one caught on to this before?

    “For god sakes the unibomber had to kill several people for the media even listened to what he said. Maybe meme isn’t really all bad?”

    So… Meme isn’t bad because she doesn’t randomly murder innocent people? That’s a pretty freaking low standard. Oh, and even when people DID start listening to the Unibomber, it was only to say, “My god, what a psycho. Let’s pretend we care so that we can catch him” – a sentiment to which you must agree, as you seem to be using a computer. (PS this little gem has finally convinced me that I’ve wasted enough time on you. If that was your intent, then kudos good sir.)

  202. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 29, 2007 at 3:48 am |

    Kellebelle

    My comment about the unibomber may sound somewhat off color but I think it says more about how creepy the media is than it does about how creepy I am. If you think about it the media doesn’t pay much attention to anything unless someone is getting murdered, called fat or…using an un-pc term…I can’t think of anything else….Oh yeah, sensationalising stupid bullshit.

    Sorry about the sources, I spent alot of time flipping through my library one night and then proceeded to type them up. Someone erased them. Why? I don’t know. I’m not typing them again to waste my and your time.

    Brunt of the matter is, Western culture has a problem that no other culture has. An epidemic of obesity, diabetes and quite a few other diseases. Meme Roth can see this, and makes no excuses…and for that I respect her intelligence, even though she is an asshole. But enough about her. She is keeping us all from the real issue.

    What is causing this epidemic? What is causing indigenous “primitive” people that had no problems whatsoever to get sick and contract diabetes almost immediatly upon entering our Western culture? (As I sited in my sources.) What is causing children to get a disease that they shouldn’t have at such an early age? And what is causing the number of people afflicted to double every 15 years? What makes Western culture the fattest in the world?

    I think these are questions we should ask ourselves rather than wondering whether or not Meme Roth is an asshole. Meme Roths asshole status is inconsequential compared to our health.

    I have done my own experiments with organic cane sugar and high fructose corn syrup using a blood sugar reader…needless to say the results came out in favor of what I am saying, based on the spike of the subjects blood sugar upon consuming both. I believe that organic cane sugar is safe for diabetics, considering that most of them STILL have a steady diet of corn syrup that they wouldn’t even suspect insidiously snuck upon them.

    I have two family members with diabetes. One had early stages, listened to what I had to say and has been what I would call “cured”, for to me lack of disease is the status of “cured” in my eyes. They enjoy an eventful organic diet with all of the trimmings.

    The other refuses to listen, and is much like the folks here that laugh at me. They continuously eat “diet” products that taste horrible with harmful artificial sweeteners every day, in a futile attempt to not consume sugar, while every less obvious non diet product they consume contains high fructose corn syrup. My grandmother has THE worst type of diabetes possible. She continues to unknowingly consume ultra refined sugar in the form of high fructose corn syrup that is deadly to her because she thinks I am crazy and won’t listen to me.

    Frustrating? You betcha!

    Everything has high fructose corn syrup. How can a diabetic actually avoid it really? My point is that organic cane sugar must be less harmful if they are going to consume corn syrup (and literally THOUSANDS of other chemicals) unknowingly anyway! Make no mistake most of them do because they wouldn’t even suspect corn syrup to be in a loaf of bread. Come on, you have a brain.

    Why can’t you see this?

  203. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 29, 2007 at 4:06 am |

    Kellebelle:
    And i think the only other thing you were able to refute that I stated was that 90% of chemicals are bad.

    I think by now I have made it clear that I meant 90% of the extremely harmful synthetic chemicals that are added to our food; NOT, the natural chemicals that make up the foundation of our existence. I think you knew what I meant, you were just nit picking to get me caught up.

  204. red_thyroid_sun
    red_thyroid_sun May 29, 2007 at 4:27 am |

    On the differences between regular sugar and organic sugar:
    While organic sugar is usually brown, ultra refined sugar is usually white. Like most things that are “brown”, Cane sugar must have been considered uncouth or unattractive by Western society at the turn of the century. (1900)

    When you turn somthing what, what is typically used? Hmmm…I don’t know…BLEACH! Veeeery small trace amounts mind you, but typically enough to wreak havoc on the liver to any who consume this sugar and surely the pancreas. (GASP!) and…Do you really want me to go on with paragraphs and paragraphs more on refined sugar alone or will you just take my word for it so the mods don’t get angry and ban me please???

    The fact that cane sugar hasn’t been bleached white alone is enough of an argument that it’s healthier…

  205. LS
    LS May 29, 2007 at 5:58 am |

    Hmmm…I don’t know…BLEACH! Veeeery small trace amounts mind you, but typically enough to wreak havoc on the liver to any who consume this sugar and surely the pancreas. (GASP!)

    Er, refined sugar is turned white by a clarification process that traps impurities and then filtration through activated carbon. No bleach used. On the other hand, cane sugar has nutrients refined sugar lacks.

  206. Hawise
    Hawise May 29, 2007 at 6:29 am |

    Umm… pure sugar, like salt, is seen as white by the human eye. The crystal structure just turns light in that way. Any sugar that is brown has impurities in it and white sugar has existed since the middle ages. It is the process of removing the impurities that makes it appear white. The difference between one sugar and another is the length of the carbon strings and to a large extent, our ability to digest it is based on enzymes in our gut. Our reaction to the sugars is based on how fast we digest it and how well our organs are working. Diabetics still need sugar but need to regulate the amount because their system is malfunctioning and is unable to get rid of the excess.
    Unless you are buying any sugar wrapped at the field then you really want it to have been processed as bulk shipping tends to contaminate it with diesal fuel and other junk found in the holds of ships, all of which get removed in the factory.

  207. Callie
    Callie May 29, 2007 at 6:42 am |

    red_thyroid_sun, you need to take a basic course in agro science of any kind. Let me make it very, very clear:

    There is NO DIFFERENCE in Saccharum (cane sugar) and organically-grown Saccharum (cane sugar). NO DIFFERENCE. No difference at all. The same species of plant is use. Conventional Saccharum is milled; organic Saccharum is milled, both turning what grows in the fields into something you can eat. Both are “processed,” because you can’t get sugar from cane, or beet, or corn, without doing so. Processing isn’t some evil secret activity done in a US lab; it’s done in mills all over the world.

    The difference has to do with conditions of growing, and these vary depending on what “organic” means. It might mean, depending on the farmer, avoiding pesticides during the growing process, or avoiding additives during processing, or engaging in crop rotation. It doesn’t mean not refining sugar, or refining it to a lesser degree.

    For heaven’s sake, take a biology course, or an ag science course. Or go visit a conventional farmer and see her milling sugar. Or run these ideas by one of the thousands of sane organic farmers in the US.

    I so much wish that science-denying nuts would not associate themselves with the organic food movement.

  208. Callie
    Callie May 29, 2007 at 6:48 am |

    Everything has high fructose corn syrup.

    No sh*t Sherlock. This is not new news. Go after US/European agricultural subsidies–the reason for hfcs being so cheap in the US–instead of bogusly claiming that organic hfcs is magic.

  209. Chet
    Chet May 29, 2007 at 8:18 am |

    I so much wish that science-denying nuts would not associate themselves with the organic food movement.

    Well, no offense to “organic” foodies, but if you wanted science folks on your side, you could have picked a word to describe those foods that didn’t simply mean “carbon-containing compounds” (really, all foods are organic.)

    Just the way the debate is framed – as though “non-organic” foods are made of plastic or wax or something – turns off a lot of rational people (the price doesn’t help, either.) So the anti-science nuts are pretty much all you’re left with because they’re the only ones who won’t notice that the very name of the movement draws a false dichotomy.

  210. bint alshamsa
    bint alshamsa May 29, 2007 at 8:24 am |

    I’m coming out of seclusion for just a moment because I just have to comment on this post and some of the stuff that has been written in the comments section.

    red_thyroid_sun:

    At first, I was just going to give you a nice, hearty screw you but the more I read from you, the more I feel impelled to actually tell you what I think about what you wrote. I don’t even know where to begin addressing all of the foolishness you posted here. “Organic food” is one of the biggest marketing ploys ever. Make some use of the pillow stuffing between your ears and think for a second. What food ISN’T organic? Unless Ronald McDonald secretly figured out a way to make big macs out of moon dust, even they are organic. You want food that hasn’t been poked and prodded and pre-cleaned? That’s fine with me. e. coli and rotoviruses are as organic. After all, almost nothing is more organic than feces. Bon apetite!

    If you want to spend extra dollars just to delude yourself into thinking you’re getting better quality food, then go for it! A fool and his money are soon parted. The reality is, my frozen peas are more likely to have a high nutrient content than your iceberg lettuce with the dirty roots still attached to them. Do you get my drift?

    Oh yeah, do you have any idea how ridiculous it is to compare Girl Scout cookies to the Holocaust? Not only is it ridiculous. It’s also disgusting and in poor taste, to say the least. Then there’s this:

    I consider fat to be the poor people I see huffing to get out of thier car seat everyday

    I huff to get out of my car seat and I’m UNDERWEIGHT. So am I fat too? Look, if you have a problem with seeing folks struggle to get out of their car, then look the other way. What are we supposed to just stay home so that we don’t bother you?

    I realize that no one will live forever, but that isn’t the point. The point is to have a quality life where one isn’t dependent on 30 useless medication, insulin etc. etc. and living in constant misery.

    No, that may be the point of YOUR life, but the point of my life is to just enjoy life. It doesn’t matter if this means taking 30 medications a day, eating a pint of Häagen-Dazs for breakfast, or (as in your case) munching down on some poo-filled veggies. The point of life is to live. Not all of us WANT to live to be a hundred and four. Some of us would be perfectly content with thirty or forty years spent in moderate happiness with their loved ones. You see, I already have cancer. And in all likelihood, if I’m still posting on feministe in ten years, I’ll be doing so from the other side of St. Peter’s pearly gates. So, if it takes trans-fat and nutrasweet and refined sugar just to make my Oreos taste good, then bring it on! I plan on leaving this body so used up that when I die, even the worms won’t want to eat me. So, bite me!

    Fatphobia exists because there is somthing wrong with being fat. People would simply accept it as normal if it were biologically so.

    Wow! You really do live on another planet! Fatphobia exists because there is something wrong with people who can not come to grips with reality. Fat is not good or bad. It simply is. If what gets called fat by (mostly white) people in this society were not biologically “normal” then there wouldn’t be so many such folks walking around. Plenty of us accept fat as normal. Thank goodness for fat! Without it, you wouldn’t even exist and as nice as that might sound to the rest of us, I’m sure that you’re pretty glad that your mother had enough fat stores to allow her to carry the little zygote that became you.

    Besides, I know that no one could really WANT to be fat, come on!

    FUCK OFF. I nearly died two years ago and again three weeks ago because I couldn’t keep anything down. For your information, my doctors recommend that I gain as much weight as possible whenever I can. There are lots of folks in this world who WISH that they could get their bodies to hold food long enough for them to get fat. I lost TWENTY FIVE pounds in the past six weeks and I guarantee that if I stood next to a obese woman, her body would probably be considered more attractive than mine. In fact, I’ve gotten more attention for my looks when I was heavier than when I was thin. The best I ever looked was when I once managed to get to 145 pounds and it took being nine months pregnant for me to reach that weight!

    Genetic engineered produce has been shown to cause stomach leisions in rats, shrunken testicles and a host of other things like brain lesions.

    Like Nymphalidae, I have also engaged in crop research, specifically genetically-modified foods, but from the biological angle. This is utter bushit! Everything we eat is genetically engineered. That includes your “organic” foods. None of the foods you eat would look like they do today without thousands of years of human engineering. Besides, what scientists do in a lab is miniscule compared to the amount of engineering that takes place on this planet.

    Obesity is unhealthy, end of story. If you don’t think so, you might as well state that cancer is the new fashion accessory of 2007.

    I have two words for you here: fuck off. Guess what, I have cancer and if you knew anything about it, you’d know how effing ironic your comment is. Considering the fact that EIGHTY PERCENT OF ALL CANCER-RELATED DEATHS ARE CAUSED BY MALNUTRITION, if you really think that everyone in the world wants to be skinny, then I cheerfully and without reserve wish upon you the same cancerous chest tumors that currently inhabit my body. Then you’ll never have to worry about being fat ever again. Wouldn’t that be just peachy?

    By the way, this:

    I can assure you from own experience that when I eat normal my skin breaks out, crusts up, dries out,

    sounds like a herpes outbreak to me. I’m just saying. You might want to look into it bud. Before college, I used to be a pharmacy technician. You might want to try Valtrex. It might not be the food.

    Meme Roth can see this, and makes no excuses…and for that I respect her intelligence, even though she is an asshole.

    Well, nearly everything is relative so I’m not really surprised that from where you are, Meme seems intelligent.

    What is causing indigenous “primitive” people that had no problems whatsoever to get sick and contract diabetes almost immediatly upon entering our Western culture?

    Hey dumbass, indigenous people are no more primitive than you. To answer your question, there would have to be a true premise to start with. Indigenous cultures deal with diabetes and cancer and all the other conditions that other people contract or are born with. We always have.

    I swear, you have pissed me off royally this morning. Now I’m remembering why I was taking a break from both of the internets!

  211. bint alshamsa
    bint alshamsa May 29, 2007 at 8:41 am |

    Old age is the result of laziness and a lack of effort. death is the result of carelessness and sexual promiscuity.

    I plan on testing out both of these assertions to the fullest extent possible!! You can’t even know how much it made me laugh out loud to read that quote. R. Mildred, I am now your fan for life.

    Living to be really old only means that you wind up attending all of your best friends’ funerals. Have the good sense to die at a reasonable age!

  212. tigtog
    tigtog May 29, 2007 at 8:41 am |

    I’m curious as to where Chet has come across plastic or wax that doesn’t contain carbon compounds.

  213. K
    K May 29, 2007 at 10:50 am |

    With no intent to offend Karen @ 62, I think ME!ME! is rather well named.

  214. Callie
    Callie May 29, 2007 at 11:16 am |

    So the anti-science nuts are pretty much all you’re left with because they’re the only ones who won’t notice that the very name of the movement draws a false dichotomy.

    Seriously? You really need this explained?

    Organic is one of those magical words (like most words in the dictionary), that has more than one meaning, depending on the context and the field in which its being used. “Carbon-based” is one meaning. “Of or relating to or derived from living organisms” is another (and not synonymous with the first). “Constituent” (of something else) is another. “Involving or affecting physiology or bodily organs” is another. Organic has particular meanings in law, architechture, philosophy, etc. Organic is a nice, multipurpose word.

    “Of or relating to foodstuff grown or raised without synthetic fertilizers or pesticides or hormones,” is a definition of organic that has been around in the US since the 1940′s, and it lacks any connotation of “non-carbon.”

    I can’t believe I just took the time to explain that to someone.

  215. Rachel
    Rachel May 29, 2007 at 1:35 pm |

    Bint, I know you’re married and straight and all that, plus you live half a continent away, but still: marry me? That was delightful.

  216. bint alshamsa
    bint alshamsa May 29, 2007 at 2:11 pm |

    Callie,

    the problem is, when the term “organic” is applied to food, it does not always mean “of or relating to foodstuff grown or raised without synthetic fertilizers or pesticides or hormones”. It’s a term that can be applied to ANY food along with many non-food items as well.

    For instance, let’s say we engineer ourselves some golden rice. As long as we don’t use any synthetic fertilizers or pesticides or hormones, it would meet the definition of organic that you supplied. However, most of the “organic food” movement folks wouldn’t care to see this stuff mixed in with their other grains.

    “Organic” is just a very vague label to apply to food because it has so many definitions. Even within the applications to foodstuffs, there are so many different measurements and standards that labeling an item as “organic” really doesn’t tell you anything about what actually went into the production of something.

  217. Chet
    Chet May 29, 2007 at 2:15 pm |

    I’m curious as to where Chet has come across plastic or wax that doesn’t contain carbon compounds.

    D’oh! I haven’t, of course, and my only excuse for being boneheaded is that my remedial chemistry class isn’t for another week. (Seriously.)

    “Of or relating to foodstuff grown or raised without synthetic fertilizers or pesticides or hormones,” is a definition of organic that has been around in the US since the 1940’s, and it lacks any connotation of “non-carbon.”

    Great, but that’s exactly what I’m talking about. The definition wasn’t just “around;” the movement appended a new definition to a word that was already defined in a way that made it essentially unsuitable as a descriptor.

    I’m not saying you don’t have the “right” to redefine words as you see fit, language being as mutable as it is – but surely you’re aware that the use of the term “organic” makes your movement a laughing stock among biologists and chemists*? A laughing stock that you could have easily avoided with a better word choice?

    But, hey, I can’t believe I had to explain that to someone, either.

    *That, and the relentless, evidence-free boosterism the “organic” foods movement promulgates. (“They’re better for you!”) And their general unwillingness to look at the negative environmental costs of organic food production, such as greater use of environmental resources, copper contamination of the soil, unsustainability, and the lack of any regulation of organic pesticides.

  218. Callie
    Callie May 29, 2007 at 3:45 pm |

    A laughing stock that you could have easily avoided with a better word choice?

    Thanks for the tip, I’ll work on that next time I time travel to the 1940′s.

    (What do scientists do, I wonder, when they encounter other words with multiple meanings used in their fields? Like “currency” or “state”? Yowza! Someone better put a stop to this trend of activists using other people’s words before it gets out of hand!)

    “Organic” is just a very vague label to apply to food because it has so many definitions. Even within the applications to foodstuffs, there are so many different measurements and standards that labeling an item as “organic” really doesn’t tell you anything about what actually went into the production of something.

    Bint, yes, this is a real problem for people who want to buy sustainably-grown food. It’s great that the food is so popular now, but the issues with using the term are frustrating.

    The USDA “certified organic” label was an attempt to standardize products claiming to be organic, but the standards are somewhat problematic… they’re great in the sense that they promote synthetic chemical-free agriculture, but not great in the sense that it’s really tough for small farmers to comply and easy for big farmers (like the ones owned by Kelloggs) to do so. USDA Cerified Organic also doesn’t have really stringent rules about humane care of animals.

    I think that the best practice is to investigate the labels a little and then go with a reputable one that represents the values you want to support. Good ones are Certified Humane, Fair Trade Certified, and the USDA Certified Organic. Or buy from a farmer you know, if you can.

    Sorry Zuzu I’ll stop hijacking now. Bye folks.

  219. Lauredhel
    Lauredhel May 30, 2007 at 3:16 am |

    the use of the term “organic” makes your movement a laughing stock among biologists and chemists

    Or, y’know, not. Particularly for those scientists who have learned a little bit about ill-considered uptight prescriptivism in linguistics class.

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