the use of the term “organic” makes your movement a laughing stock among biologists and chemists

Or, y’know, not. Particularly for those scientists who have learned a little bit about ill-considered uptight prescriptivism in linguistics class.

A laughing stock that you could have easily avoided with a better word choice?

Thanks for the tip, I’ll work on that next time I time travel to the 1940′s.

(What do scientists do, I wonder, when they encounter other words with multiple meanings used in their fields? Like “currency” or “state”? Yowza! Someone better put a stop to this trend of activists using other people’s words before it gets out of hand!)

“Organic” is just a very vague label to apply to food because it has so many definitions. Even within the applications to foodstuffs, there are so many different measurements and standards that labeling an item as “organic” really doesn’t tell you anything about what actually went into the production of something.

Bint, yes, this is a real problem for people who want to buy sustainably-grown food. It’s great that the food is so popular now, but the issues with using the term are frustrating.

The USDA “certified organic” label was an attempt to standardize products claiming to be organic, but the standards are somewhat problematic… they’re great in the sense that they promote synthetic chemical-free agriculture, but not great in the sense that it’s really tough for small farmers to comply and easy for big farmers (like the ones owned by Kelloggs) to do so. USDA Cerified Organic also doesn’t have really stringent rules about humane care of animals.

I think that the best practice is to investigate the labels a little and then go with a reputable one that represents the values you want to support. Good ones are Certified Humane, Fair Trade Certified, and the USDA Certified Organic. Or buy from a farmer you know, if you can.

Sorry Zuzu I’ll stop hijacking now. Bye folks.

I’m curious as to where Chet has come across plastic or wax that doesn’t contain carbon compounds.

D’oh! I haven’t, of course, and my only excuse for being boneheaded is that my remedial chemistry class isn’t for another week. (Seriously.)

“Of or relating to foodstuff grown or raised without synthetic fertilizers or pesticides or hormones,” is a definition of organic that has been around in the US since the 1940’s, and it lacks any connotation of “non-carbon.”

Great, but that’s exactly what I’m talking about. The definition wasn’t just “around;” the movement appended a new definition to a word that was already defined in a way that made it essentially unsuitable as a descriptor.

I’m not saying you don’t have the “right” to redefine words as you see fit, language being as mutable as it is – but surely you’re aware that the use of the term “organic” makes your movement a laughing stock among biologists and chemists*? A laughing stock that you could have easily avoided with a better word choice?

But, hey, I can’t believe I had to explain that to someone, either.

*That, and the relentless, evidence-free boosterism the “organic” foods movement promulgates. (“They’re better for you!”) And their general unwillingness to look at the negative environmental costs of organic food production, such as greater use of environmental resources, copper contamination of the soil, unsustainability, and the lack of any regulation of organic pesticides.

the problem is, when the term “organic” is applied to food, it does not always mean “of or relating to foodstuff grown or raised without synthetic fertilizers or pesticides or hormones”. It’s a term that can be applied to ANY food along with many non-food items as well.

For instance, let’s say we engineer ourselves some golden rice. As long as we don’t use any synthetic fertilizers or pesticides or hormones, it would meet the definition of organic that you supplied. However, most of the “organic food” movement folks wouldn’t care to see this stuff mixed in with their other grains.

“Organic” is just a very vague label to apply to food because it has so many definitions. Even within the applications to foodstuffs, there are so many different measurements and standards that labeling an item as “organic” really doesn’t tell you anything about what actually went into the production of something.

So the anti-science nuts are pretty much all you’re left with because they’re the only ones who won’t notice that the very name of the movement draws a false dichotomy.

Seriously? You really need this explained?

Organic is one of those magical words (like most words in the dictionary), that has more than one meaning, depending on the context and the field in which its being used. “Carbon-based” is one meaning. “Of or relating to or derived from living organisms” is another (and not synonymous with the first). “Constituent” (of something else) is another. “Involving or affecting physiology or bodily organs” is another. Organic has particular meanings in law, architechture, philosophy, etc. Organic is a nice, multipurpose word.

“Of or relating to foodstuff grown or raised without synthetic fertilizers or pesticides or hormones,” is a definition of organic that has been around in the US since the 1940′s, and it lacks any connotation of “non-carbon.”

I can’t believe I just took the time to explain that to someone.

Old age is the result of laziness and a lack of effort. death is the result of carelessness and sexual promiscuity.

I plan on testing out both of these assertions to the fullest extent possible!! You can’t even know how much it made me laugh out loud to read that quote. R. Mildred, I am now your fan for life.

Living to be really old only means that you wind up attending all of your best friends’ funerals. Have the good sense to die at a reasonable age!

red_thyroid_sun:

At first, I was just going to give you a nice, hearty screw you but the more I read from you, the more I feel impelled to actually tell you what I think about what you wrote. I don’t even know where to begin addressing all of the foolishness you posted here. “Organic food” is one of the biggest marketing ploys ever. Make some use of the pillow stuffing between your ears and think for a second. What food ISN’T organic? Unless Ronald McDonald secretly figured out a way to make big macs out of moon dust, even they are organic. You want food that hasn’t been poked and prodded and pre-cleaned? That’s fine with me. e. coli and rotoviruses are as organic. After all, almost nothing is more organic than feces. Bon apetite!

If you want to spend extra dollars just to delude yourself into thinking you’re getting better quality food, then go for it! A fool and his money are soon parted. The reality is, my frozen peas are more likely to have a high nutrient content than your iceberg lettuce with the dirty roots still attached to them. Do you get my drift?

Oh yeah, do you have any idea how ridiculous it is to compare Girl Scout cookies to the Holocaust? Not only is it ridiculous. It’s also disgusting and in poor taste, to say the least. Then there’s this:

I consider fat to be the poor people I see huffing to get out of thier car seat everyday

I huff to get out of my car seat and I’m UNDERWEIGHT. So am I fat too? Look, if you have a problem with seeing folks struggle to get out of their car, then look the other way. What are we supposed to just stay home so that we don’t bother you?

I realize that no one will live forever, but that isn’t the point. The point is to have a quality life where one isn’t dependent on 30 useless medication, insulin etc. etc. and living in constant misery.

No, that may be the point of YOUR life, but the point of my life is to just enjoy life. It doesn’t matter if this means taking 30 medications a day, eating a pint of Häagen-Dazs for breakfast, or (as in your case) munching down on some poo-filled veggies. The point of life is to live. Not all of us WANT to live to be a hundred and four. Some of us would be perfectly content with thirty or forty years spent in moderate happiness with their loved ones. You see, I already have cancer. And in all likelihood, if I’m still posting on feministe in ten years, I’ll be doing so from the other side of St. Peter’s pearly gates. So, if it takes trans-fat and nutrasweet and refined sugar just to make my Oreos taste good, then bring it on! I plan on leaving this body so used up that when I die, even the worms won’t want to eat me. So, bite me!

Fatphobia exists because there is somthing wrong with being fat. People would simply accept it as normal if it were biologically so.

Wow! You really do live on another planet! Fatphobia exists because there is something wrong with people who can not come to grips with reality. Fat is not good or bad. It simply is. If what gets called fat by (mostly white) people in this society were not biologically “normal” then there wouldn’t be so many such folks walking around. Plenty of us accept fat as normal. Thank goodness for fat! Without it, you wouldn’t even exist and as nice as that might sound to the rest of us, I’m sure that you’re pretty glad that your mother had enough fat stores to allow her to carry the little zygote that became you.

Besides, I know that no one could really WANT to be fat, come on!

FUCK OFF. I nearly died two years ago and again three weeks ago because I couldn’t keep anything down. For your information, my doctors recommend that I gain as much weight as possible whenever I can. There are lots of folks in this world who WISH that they could get their bodies to hold food long enough for them to get fat. I lost TWENTY FIVE pounds in the past six weeks and I guarantee that if I stood next to a obese woman, her body would probably be considered more attractive than mine. In fact, I’ve gotten more attention for my looks when I was heavier than when I was thin. The best I ever looked was when I once managed to get to 145 pounds and it took being nine months pregnant for me to reach that weight!

Genetic engineered produce has been shown to cause stomach leisions in rats, shrunken testicles and a host of other things like brain lesions.

Like Nymphalidae, I have also engaged in crop research, specifically genetically-modified foods, but from the biological angle. This is utter bushit! Everything we eat is genetically engineered. That includes your “organic” foods. None of the foods you eat would look like they do today without thousands of years of human engineering. Besides, what scientists do in a lab is miniscule compared to the amount of engineering that takes place on this planet.

Obesity is unhealthy, end of story. If you don’t think so, you might as well state that cancer is the new fashion accessory of 2007.

I have two words for you here: fuck off. Guess what, I have cancer and if you knew anything about it, you’d know how effing ironic your comment is. Considering the fact that EIGHTY PERCENT OF ALL CANCER-RELATED DEATHS ARE CAUSED BY MALNUTRITION, if you really think that everyone in the world wants to be skinny, then I cheerfully and without reserve wish upon you the same cancerous chest tumors that currently inhabit my body. Then you’ll never have to worry about being fat ever again. Wouldn’t that be just peachy?

By the way, this:

I can assure you from own experience that when I eat normal my skin breaks out, crusts up, dries out,

sounds like a herpes outbreak to me. I’m just saying. You might want to look into it bud. Before college, I used to be a pharmacy technician. You might want to try Valtrex. It might not be the food.

Meme Roth can see this, and makes no excuses…and for that I respect her intelligence, even though she is an asshole.

Well, nearly everything is relative so I’m not really surprised that from where you are, Meme seems intelligent.

What is causing indigenous “primitive” people that had no problems whatsoever to get sick and contract diabetes almost immediatly upon entering our Western culture?

Hey dumbass, indigenous people are no more primitive than you. To answer your question, there would have to be a true premise to start with. Indigenous cultures deal with diabetes and cancer and all the other conditions that other people contract or are born with. We always have.

I swear, you have pissed me off royally this morning. Now I’m remembering why I was taking a break from both of the internets!